Torque questions
by T. Bakker · in General Discussion · 12/13/2004 (1:26 pm) · 6 replies
Hey there,
I'm completely new to torque and the gaming development so i have some (probably stupid) questions :)
First of all let me explain some things so you get a somewhat clearer picture of my intensions ...
I have my own 3D graphic company, based upon 3dsMax and the other usual stuff ... Now i'm developing a virtual reality machine wherefore I need a realtime 3D engine ..
My first thoughts were offcourse a game-engine like torque ...
But the product i'm developing stands or falls with the visual quality of it ... so i'm not producing a game ... just a game-level in which you can wander around (for now) and look at stuff ...
The demos give me a pretty good idea of what the engine is capable off and the price ... well .. better then $250.000 for the Q3 engine :)
But I still have some questions ... and maybe anyone of you out there can clearup some of them .. i will simply list them ... :)
- Is it possible to design a level (complex structure) in 3DMAX and then export it to torque .. if so .. will this include texturing (and coordinates) if i respect the maximum texture resolution which torque can handle. From there i can setup the rest i guess . (sky, lighting, fog etc)
- If above is total !@#$ then pls explain .. how do i create level/world for the engine.
- What is the max texture resolution torque can handle :)
- How does the engine handle complex sceneries .. (complex structure, lightnings) keeping in mind the engine will run on systems delivered by my company and will be very high-end.
- development ... is there a possibility that radiosity/global illumination is a future feature ?
- is there a way to implant crowd simulation (and ability to interact with the crowd)
- The new shader engine showed pretty cewl stuff ... except shadows .. was this turned off because of performance issues .. or was it just because of the demo ...
- The normal SDK demo showed "ogre town".. there was a moment the monster went inside a building with lightsources ... the lightsources didn't affect monster at all ... the shadow didn't change and the monster was not illuminated by them .. is the engine capable of doing this ? or do i need the lightingpack ? ...
- is it possible to generate glass or similar stuff .. doesn't need to break or something ..
- Allthough i have 3D knowledge, how hard is it to create a good looking 3D world .. and what do i need to know of c++ ... i'm a total newby at that ! :) The standard engine will do i guess so i don't have to program anything i hope ... nor scripting ...? :)
Well this are my main questions right now .. the rest was pretty much answered by the demos ..
I really hope you guys can clear up things a little bit ... but my product is just a little different from the usual game .. so I wanna know what i buy ... if some things simply can't be done by the engine i have to look for something else ...
thanx in advance ..
Greetz Tiemen
I'm completely new to torque and the gaming development so i have some (probably stupid) questions :)
First of all let me explain some things so you get a somewhat clearer picture of my intensions ...
I have my own 3D graphic company, based upon 3dsMax and the other usual stuff ... Now i'm developing a virtual reality machine wherefore I need a realtime 3D engine ..
My first thoughts were offcourse a game-engine like torque ...
But the product i'm developing stands or falls with the visual quality of it ... so i'm not producing a game ... just a game-level in which you can wander around (for now) and look at stuff ...
The demos give me a pretty good idea of what the engine is capable off and the price ... well .. better then $250.000 for the Q3 engine :)
But I still have some questions ... and maybe anyone of you out there can clearup some of them .. i will simply list them ... :)
- Is it possible to design a level (complex structure) in 3DMAX and then export it to torque .. if so .. will this include texturing (and coordinates) if i respect the maximum texture resolution which torque can handle. From there i can setup the rest i guess . (sky, lighting, fog etc)
- If above is total !@#$ then pls explain .. how do i create level/world for the engine.
- What is the max texture resolution torque can handle :)
- How does the engine handle complex sceneries .. (complex structure, lightnings) keeping in mind the engine will run on systems delivered by my company and will be very high-end.
- development ... is there a possibility that radiosity/global illumination is a future feature ?
- is there a way to implant crowd simulation (and ability to interact with the crowd)
- The new shader engine showed pretty cewl stuff ... except shadows .. was this turned off because of performance issues .. or was it just because of the demo ...
- The normal SDK demo showed "ogre town".. there was a moment the monster went inside a building with lightsources ... the lightsources didn't affect monster at all ... the shadow didn't change and the monster was not illuminated by them .. is the engine capable of doing this ? or do i need the lightingpack ? ...
- is it possible to generate glass or similar stuff .. doesn't need to break or something ..
- Allthough i have 3D knowledge, how hard is it to create a good looking 3D world .. and what do i need to know of c++ ... i'm a total newby at that ! :) The standard engine will do i guess so i don't have to program anything i hope ... nor scripting ...? :)
Well this are my main questions right now .. the rest was pretty much answered by the demos ..
I really hope you guys can clear up things a little bit ... but my product is just a little different from the usual game .. so I wanna know what i buy ... if some things simply can't be done by the engine i have to look for something else ...
thanx in advance ..
Greetz Tiemen
#2
Interiors are designed with Quark, althought there is a Max2Dif tool I have never seen it work, and have heard it is quite rough to use. Max would be used for objects, players, weapons NOT buildings
depends it fluxuates with differant items I think greyscale images used for terrains are 256, while players can have 512
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12/13/2004 (2:13 pm)
Quote:Is it possible to design a level (complex structure) in 3DMAX and then export it to torque .. if so .. will this include texturing (and coordinates) if i respect the maximum texture resolution which torque can handle. From there i can setup the rest i guess . (sky, lighting, fog etc)
- If above is total !@#$ then pls explain .. how do i create level/world for the engine.
Interiors are designed with Quark, althought there is a Max2Dif tool I have never seen it work, and have heard it is quite rough to use. Max would be used for objects, players, weapons NOT buildings
Quote:
- What is the max texture resolution torque can handle :)
depends it fluxuates with differant items I think greyscale images used for terrains are 256, while players can have 512
Quote:The engine supports portals for interiors, and the landscape is devided into zones, im not the best to ellaborate
- How does the engine handle complex sceneries .. (complex structure, lightnings) keeping in mind the engine will run on systems delivered by my company and will be very high-end.
Quote:The shader engine might support out of the box radiosity, one day, but if you have a talented programmer he should figure it out. Read Game Developer Magazine, Brian Rammage wrote an article on Radiosty in a summer issue, he just happens to be the head shader honcho for GarageGames
- development ... is there a possibility that radiosity/global illumination is a future feature ?
-
Quote: is there a way to implant crowd simulation (and ability to interact with the crowd)The Torque Ai pack should help with that, plus I belive some flocking methods might be included
Quote:TSE will support dynamic shadows but not until the last milestone
- The new shader engine showed pretty cewl stuff ... except shadows .. was this turned off because of performance issues .. or was it just because of the demo ...
Quote:the Light pack does pretty darn well, but for true illumination you will need shaders, or better TSE + light pack
- The normal SDK demo showed "ogre town".. there was a moment the monster went inside a building with lightsources ... the lightsources didn't affect monster at all ... the shadow didn't change and the monster was not illuminated by them .. is the engine capable of doing this ? or do i need the lightingpack ? ...
Quote:- is it possible to generate glass or similar stuff .. doesn't need to break or something ..Shaders can do it real nice, otherwise use alpha channels to make an object translucent.
Quote:- Allthough i have 3D knowledge, how hard is it to create a good looking 3D world .. and what do i need to know of c++ ... i'm a total newby at that ! :) The standard engine will do i guess so i don't have to program anything i hope ... nor scripting ...? :)I belive you could use the standard out of the box torque to do a fine 3d simulation, you will need to learn the concepts of programming so you can utilize Torqur Script. the ingame editor should be easy to understand, but you will need some programming experaince or a programmer to work with if you want to make the experiance unique
#3
I'm sure that you'll get some more feedback, but I tried to answer as well as my flu-addled mind could.
12/13/2004 (2:14 pm)
Quote:-anything made in 3dsmax can be exported to torqueThis is a huge promise. The Max exporter is extremely full featured, but creating levels in Max requires either the 3DS Torque resource or similar implementation or a .map exporter. Both exist, though you'll find that you're constrained in your modeling practices. Most "levels" in Torque are created using CSG editors and compilers that don't have to best-guess what you want like .map exporters. Quark is the right tool for the job, though it has a learning curve.
Quote:- What is the max texture resolution torque can handle :)I believe there's a hardcoded value of 2048, but if your target platform has more to work with, it can easily be changed. That's the beauty of getting the source. You can modify it to do what you want/need.
Quote:- How does the engine handle complex sceneries .. (complex structure, lightnings) keeping in mind the engine will run on systems delivered by my company and will be very high-end.It depends on the system specs and how your artists work.
Quote:- development ... is there a possibility that radiosity/global illumination is a future feature ?It depends on how you work your design. One can also play with the TGERad resource...
Quote:- is there a way to implant crowd simulation (and ability to interact with the crowd)Not in stock Torque. One solution is to use a 3rd party crowd simulation product just as you would a 3rd party physics library, but you'll be looking at either spending some cash on the product and support or sending the cash on programmers to create it for you.
Quote:- The new shader engine showed pretty cewl stuff ... except shadows .. was this turned off because of performance issues .. or was it just because of the demo ...It's in milestone 4, so it will be coming without an extra expenditure.
Quote:- is it possible to generate glass or similar stuff .. doesn't need to break or something ..The easy way is to create models of "windows" with a damage value. If you simply need transparency, then you can do that as well.
Quote:- Allthough i have 3D knowledge, how hard is it to create a good looking 3D world .. and what do i need to know of c++ ... i'm a total newby at that ! :) The standard engine will do i guess so i don't have to program anything i hope ... nor scripting ...? :)It depends on your artists skills. To make workflow tool integration easier, it's a good idea to know c++ well enough to support all of the features your artists expect from their tools within the engine itself (within reason). It's not a virtual museum right out of the box, so you'll have to make some modifications for it to work specifically with your implementation. Those modifications will be with the scripting and C++ sides, respectively. Especially if crowd dynamics are part of what you want to demo.
I'm sure that you'll get some more feedback, but I tried to answer as well as my flu-addled mind could.
#4
About that new lightning engine ... what does it do ? any idea ? and the $$ involved .. can't be much if you check the rest of the pricing :)) (GG is pretty cheap :) )
And one last question (for now :)) .. while browsing the forums ... i noticed that there is no such thing as a torque level editor ... this must be done with
a third party editor such as quark/hammer/radiant ??? or did i misunderstood ?
when I create a world ... and i bought/compiled TGE ... i just run an EXE .. and my level pops-up ?? can i compare this with booting quake or something ? or how does that work .... and are the splash/booting screens editable ... ??
well it's getting pretty late here in cold crappy holland :) i'll stop negging :)
(2 new replies popped up .. ignore the double questions :) to tired to adjust my text :) )
12/13/2004 (2:19 pm)
Yeah that helped pretty much ... :)About that new lightning engine ... what does it do ? any idea ? and the $$ involved .. can't be much if you check the rest of the pricing :)) (GG is pretty cheap :) )
And one last question (for now :)) .. while browsing the forums ... i noticed that there is no such thing as a torque level editor ... this must be done with
a third party editor such as quark/hammer/radiant ??? or did i misunderstood ?
when I create a world ... and i bought/compiled TGE ... i just run an EXE .. and my level pops-up ?? can i compare this with booting quake or something ? or how does that work .... and are the splash/booting screens editable ... ??
well it's getting pretty late here in cold crappy holland :) i'll stop negging :)
(2 new replies popped up .. ignore the double questions :) to tired to adjust my text :) )
#5
And you are right, there's only a mission editor, wich is used to put everything together. Buildings are made with Quark or Hammer. Static shapes are made with Max or milkshape/... The difference between the 2 is the complexity of the collision mesh. Dif's (interiors) are a lot faster then DTS (static shapes). And, if you aren't using the lighting pack then .DIF's are the only objects in the mission casting proper shadows.
I see you are from the Netherlands? I'm from Belgium.. and have around 3-4 years of experience with Torque. If you have any questions and want them answered in Dutch, just mail me.
12/13/2004 (2:26 pm)
The lighting pack is 50$ and will fix most of your light problems.And you are right, there's only a mission editor, wich is used to put everything together. Buildings are made with Quark or Hammer. Static shapes are made with Max or milkshape/... The difference between the 2 is the complexity of the collision mesh. Dif's (interiors) are a lot faster then DTS (static shapes). And, if you aren't using the lighting pack then .DIF's are the only objects in the mission casting proper shadows.
I see you are from the Netherlands? I'm from Belgium.. and have around 3-4 years of experience with Torque. If you have any questions and want them answered in Dutch, just mail me.
#6
You can change every aspect of Torque if you wish. Should you feel like stripping out linux and OS X compatability and using only Direct X 7, you could. I don't know how much I'd recommend it, but you could deffinitely do it.
Otherwise, I think Ward pretty much answered things. If there are any more questions, don't be afraid to ask!
12/13/2004 (7:23 pm)
Quake loads quite similarly to Torque. It checks any startup parameters to see if the player initiating the game wishes to load a level or go to the default GUI. If they start it standard, then it shows the GUI and you control it from there, loading and unloading levels as needed. At least mechanically, they're similar.You can change every aspect of Torque if you wish. Should you feel like stripping out linux and OS X compatability and using only Direct X 7, you could. I don't know how much I'd recommend it, but you could deffinitely do it.
Otherwise, I think Ward pretty much answered things. If there are any more questions, don't be afraid to ask!
Torque Owner Dracola
oh yeah the answers are in order with your questions.
-anything made in 3dsmax can be exported to torque
-in torque you make the landscape, water, rain, etc add in buildings and save the level. (terrain can be copied infinetely.)
-not sure
-torque loads all things at the start (the more you have the longer it takes) the lightening doesn't take much. I hope that answers your question.
-there is a new lighting engine coming out that will cost $$ though.
-crowd simulation could be done (not quiet sure what your asking)
-torques good with shadows didn't you see the part in the demo with the dancing orc and the shadow coming off him.
-yes you can make glass (see through matearial I assume) its hard to make it breakable.
-it is pretty easy to make a 3d world (no proggraming involved.
wow thats a lot hope it helps