Open Beta Feedback
by Corey Martin · in General Game Discussion · 12/12/2004 (4:54 am) · 17 replies
I should start by saying, it was difficult to pull myself away from playing to come back here to the forums and post about it. That's definately a good sign. I think it's fabulous. The most interesting thing about this game is that the presentation is utterly irrelevant, and that's the way that unadulturated multiplayer action gaming should be. The concept of simplifying the graphics and focusing on gameplay is not entirely new in the multiplayer format, but I would venture to say that never before has it been done as well as Zap manages.
Technically, the game is sound. I've had no crashes or errors of any sort so far. I enjoy the sound effects because they are rich in tone and are not annoying. Sampled sounds tend to get repetitive, while tones are much more pleasing to the ear. The graphics are fine; they dont distract, and they dont look shoddy. Simple and effective, can't go wrong here. My only gripe is that, in the larger games, its very difficult to dodge bullets if there are more than 1 or 2 ships from either team in the same area, because you cant tell which bullets are 'friendly' and which aren't (this is assuming there is no friendly fire setting, I personally haven't noticed taking friendly damage on the server i'm usually on), but perhaps this is better left untouched. I haven't experienced any lag to speak of on the servers, i suspect this is due to the impressive 4k/user target that the multiplayer model uses. All in all, this is the one of the best examples of multiplayer team based gaming i've played in recent years. As soon as it comes available, you can bet i'll be buying my copy!
I do have a few questions for the team, and maybe there are others who would like to know these as well..
Will Zap be moddable? This would be icing on the cake, really. The idea of moddability for Zap is scrumptious. Less work would be required on the whole than a normal fps team would need. No need for a modeller, texture artists, etc. I myself would like to see a class-based modification, something like team fortress. *crosses fingers on this one*
Secondly, how much can we expect Zap to cost upon release?
What is the maximum number of players a Zap server can support?
How many teams can exist in a game at once? Is this map dependent?
Will there be 'bots' of any sort available? Or perhaps some mode of offline practice/play?
Technically, the game is sound. I've had no crashes or errors of any sort so far. I enjoy the sound effects because they are rich in tone and are not annoying. Sampled sounds tend to get repetitive, while tones are much more pleasing to the ear. The graphics are fine; they dont distract, and they dont look shoddy. Simple and effective, can't go wrong here. My only gripe is that, in the larger games, its very difficult to dodge bullets if there are more than 1 or 2 ships from either team in the same area, because you cant tell which bullets are 'friendly' and which aren't (this is assuming there is no friendly fire setting, I personally haven't noticed taking friendly damage on the server i'm usually on), but perhaps this is better left untouched. I haven't experienced any lag to speak of on the servers, i suspect this is due to the impressive 4k/user target that the multiplayer model uses. All in all, this is the one of the best examples of multiplayer team based gaming i've played in recent years. As soon as it comes available, you can bet i'll be buying my copy!
I do have a few questions for the team, and maybe there are others who would like to know these as well..
Will Zap be moddable? This would be icing on the cake, really. The idea of moddability for Zap is scrumptious. Less work would be required on the whole than a normal fps team would need. No need for a modeller, texture artists, etc. I myself would like to see a class-based modification, something like team fortress. *crosses fingers on this one*
Secondly, how much can we expect Zap to cost upon release?
What is the maximum number of players a Zap server can support?
How many teams can exist in a game at once? Is this map dependent?
Will there be 'bots' of any sort available? Or perhaps some mode of offline practice/play?
#2
12/12/2004 (9:45 am)
Hmm, seem to be running into some trouble now. Around 2:30pm EST, getting crashes while completing a round and while trying to connect. I'll post whatever details i can cull from the error screen (not much).
#3
12/12/2004 (10:19 am)
I'm unable to reproduce the error again. I have my suspicions that it is network related somehow. When I got the errors, as soon as I restarted Zap I would be unable to join any games due to an inability to connect to the community server or somesuch. After trying 2 or 3 times, I would be able to reconnect and play normally. 
#4
12/12/2004 (12:03 pm)
I have some journals of that crash problem. If you want to be really awesome, run zap with the -jPlay command line option. For instance, to journal to a file called latest.jrn, you'd say zap -jPlay latest.jrn in the command prompt. Then, if Zap crashes, just send us the file that's produced, or post it online somewhere so we can download it. It makes the task of fixing the problem dramatically easier, as the journal contains an exact record of every event in the game.
#5
12/12/2004 (12:43 pm)
Excellent, i'll add that to my shortcut and try to reproduce the crash. 
#6
-jPlay will play back the journal file.
12/12/2004 (12:53 pm)
To save the file, use -jSave not jPlay. -jPlay will play back the journal file.
#7
12/12/2004 (2:28 pm)
Yes. I bow to Pat's superior awesome.
#8
AppName: zap.exe AppVer: 0.0.0.0 ModName: zap.exe
ModVer: 0.0.0.0 Offset: 0004d842
When I chose the link to 'view technical information', I get a box with what looks like a long hex dump. I scribed out the top few lines of this:
Exception Information
Code: 0xc0000005 Flags: 0x00000008
Record: 0x0000000000000000 Address: 0x00000000000044d842
I used Jsave, and I have uploaded the resulting file to some webspace:
http://www.nefd.com/latest.jrn
I'm not sure if the aforementioned connection problems occured after the error, as I started pulling together the report immediately when it occured. If it happens again tonight, i'll test it.
12/12/2004 (6:17 pm)
I managed to reproduce said error. This time, it occured immediately following the conclusion of a Hunters match. I got the normal windows error screen where it asks if you would like to debug or send an error report. The body reads:AppName: zap.exe AppVer: 0.0.0.0 ModName: zap.exe
ModVer: 0.0.0.0 Offset: 0004d842
When I chose the link to 'view technical information', I get a box with what looks like a long hex dump. I scribed out the top few lines of this:
Exception Information
Code: 0xc0000005 Flags: 0x00000008
Record: 0x0000000000000000 Address: 0x00000000000044d842
I used Jsave, and I have uploaded the resulting file to some webspace:
http://www.nefd.com/latest.jrn
I'm not sure if the aforementioned connection problems occured after the error, as I started pulling together the report immediately when it occured. If it happens again tonight, i'll test it.
#9
12/12/2004 (8:24 pm)
Ok cool. Thanks.
#10
12/12/2004 (8:51 pm)
Corey - Without fully modding Zap! you could work on some new levels using the editor documented in the readme - have to get them hosted on a server, but we're sure there will be many interesting and unique levels to test in the coming weeks.
#11
12/13/2004 (1:47 am)
I notcied the addition of the editor, but haven't given it a try yet. I imagine i'll start tinkering tonight, however. :)
#12
12/13/2004 (3:13 am)
I'm willing to host new levels, if i can figure out how to get them added to the Admin level menu. I feel stupid.. but any suggestions?
#13
1. Each ship should only have 2 weapons instead of 3. You have to choose more wisely and switching between 2 weapons is more comfortable than cycling through 3.
2. I would like a setting where the ship configuration you choose is activated when you spawn - not by flying through these configuration zones. It's a bit annoying that everytime I spawn, I have to fly to these points to change my ship configuration.
3. The message font could be a lot smaller. Only 4 lines of text can really distract you from the action.
4. Wouldn't it be better if enemy mines were only visible with the sensor?
12/15/2004 (3:51 am)
I played Zap the past 2 days and think it's a real nice game although I have some points that could be better in my opinion:1. Each ship should only have 2 weapons instead of 3. You have to choose more wisely and switching between 2 weapons is more comfortable than cycling through 3.
2. I would like a setting where the ship configuration you choose is activated when you spawn - not by flying through these configuration zones. It's a bit annoying that everytime I spawn, I have to fly to these points to change my ship configuration.
3. The message font could be a lot smaller. Only 4 lines of text can really distract you from the action.
4. Wouldn't it be better if enemy mines were only visible with the sensor?
#14
I'm personally pretty indifferent on the configuration zones. I imagine theres a pretty good reason for having them, but they don't really affect my experience very much. I agree that this would be a good server-side option, though. Both this and the previous idea could even be map dependent, for that matter (or could they?).
Definately agree about the chat text needing to be a smaller font.. i'd say a 8-10 line display would be highly prefferable to a 4 line display.
Actually, i like the idea of the mines being transparent and slightly visible. If you are traveling at a high speed, or if you are paying attention to an on-screen enemy, you wont see that mine up ahead. If you are keeping an eye out, you can see it and avoid it. This balances the mine out, in my opinion. I'm of the opinion that the mini-map should be rather minimal on what it displays to the player. Team member locations is pretty much all I care to see up there. This is mostly a personal prefference thing, anyway.
12/15/2004 (4:47 am)
As far as having two weapons as opposed to three goes, I think this is the sort of thing that should be a configuration option server-side. I think each mode of gameplay would feel a bit different, and both ways would be fun to play. Though, it's the sort of thing i'd prefer to try before analyzing it too deeply.I'm personally pretty indifferent on the configuration zones. I imagine theres a pretty good reason for having them, but they don't really affect my experience very much. I agree that this would be a good server-side option, though. Both this and the previous idea could even be map dependent, for that matter (or could they?).
Definately agree about the chat text needing to be a smaller font.. i'd say a 8-10 line display would be highly prefferable to a 4 line display.
Actually, i like the idea of the mines being transparent and slightly visible. If you are traveling at a high speed, or if you are paying attention to an on-screen enemy, you wont see that mine up ahead. If you are keeping an eye out, you can see it and avoid it. This balances the mine out, in my opinion. I'm of the opinion that the mini-map should be rather minimal on what it displays to the player. Team member locations is pretty much all I care to see up there. This is mostly a personal prefference thing, anyway.
#15
Review
*Pros*
Excellent and unique gameplay
Fast paced, but not so much as to take the fun away
Good controls, easy to learn
Good selection of weapons and powerups
Map editor *thumbs up*
Simple but effective graphics (see paragraph by Corey)
Good, ear pleasing sound (see paragraph by Corey)
Nice variety of gametypes and maps
Cons
More players on small maps = reduced lifespan (see paragraph by Corey)
Hard to tell when bullets are coming from teammates or enemies in a dogfight. (see paragraph by Corey)
Things people might like to see in future release
Ban option in admin controls
Modability
More weapons and powerups possibly for registered users, and to ensure that guests have incentive to register.
Serverside options such as weapon configs, number of weapons and powerups available, etc.
Ship configuration options to save time loading up and allow for quicker adaption at respawn.
Total game score: Kit gives this game a 9/10
12/15/2004 (5:56 pm)
The game is excellent. It reminds me of some good ship style arcade games, only multiplayer, on caffiene pills and crack (Stay in school). Seriously, though, the gameplay is unique to a ship game and completely great. Both mouse and joystick mode are a bit funny to get used to, but both of them are excellent in feel. I like the ease of shooting down another fighter with your choice of weapons and powerups. And yet I like the skill it takes as well to choose a strategy. For some people, its flying around shooting constantly. Other people conserve their energy and create strategy with boosters and shields, repair or cloak or what-have-you. Yet the game is very fast paced too. I would like to see more weapons and powerups to choose from in later releases. One great feature that could be for registered users as apposed to guests is access to these other weapons, or a wider selection of weapons and powerups. As well, maybe another registration feature could be a menu where you can save and load different configurations for your ships. Say I wanted my Booster and Shield combo in slot 1, so when I push 1 and run over a loadout panel I end up with that. Or maybe I want my Threeshot/Mine/Phazer as opposed to my Phaser/Bouncer/Mine. So I press 2 and hit the loadout panel. Also, the addition of flood control is nice. No more people sitting all day (literally, one person did) spamming the auto messages. Also, a suggestion to the powerups. The shield is powerful. Perhaps the more it gets hit, the more energy is taken away from its use? Just an idea.Review
*Pros*
Excellent and unique gameplay
Fast paced, but not so much as to take the fun away
Good controls, easy to learn
Good selection of weapons and powerups
Map editor *thumbs up*
Simple but effective graphics (see paragraph by Corey)
Good, ear pleasing sound (see paragraph by Corey)
Nice variety of gametypes and maps
Cons
More players on small maps = reduced lifespan (see paragraph by Corey)
Hard to tell when bullets are coming from teammates or enemies in a dogfight. (see paragraph by Corey)
Things people might like to see in future release
Ban option in admin controls
Modability
More weapons and powerups possibly for registered users, and to ensure that guests have incentive to register.
Serverside options such as weapon configs, number of weapons and powerups available, etc.
Ship configuration options to save time loading up and allow for quicker adaption at respawn.
Total game score: Kit gives this game a 9/10
#16
Very good points, Nate. I agree on the 'registered features' idea. I'm sure most of us already have enough incentive to register, but additional gameplay features may be the deciding factor for some people who are on the fence about buying the game.
12/15/2004 (6:54 pm)
Its been really great seeing you GG guys on the servers.. I was nefarious. Those 20 person games were somethin' else :)Very good points, Nate. I agree on the 'registered features' idea. I'm sure most of us already have enough incentive to register, but additional gameplay features may be the deciding factor for some people who are on the fence about buying the game.
#17
12/15/2004 (7:20 pm)
Hehe, you kept killin' my butt in that 5 flag capture XD Great games yea. Thanks for replying to my post. Hope to see you in future games. 
Torque 3D Owner Pat Wilson
2. Not sure if I can say, so I'll leave it to someone else.
3. I think "it depends" works, in theory, 128 with no problem. We've never gotten that many. We've had around 50 on a LAN without problems on a huge-ass hunters map.
4. Map dependant. You'll notice some maps have 4 teams, some 3, some 2.
5. Not in the first release.