Any good books on making an MMOG with torque?
by Andy Simpson · in Technical Issues · 12/04/2004 (8:57 am) · 10 replies
Hello, does anyone know if there are any good books on starting an mmog with torque?
if you do, please reply. Thanks:
Andy.
if you do, please reply. Thanks:
Andy.
#2
And thanks for the help ;)
i know it's possible, i've been browsing and found a chinease MMORPG that looks like it's going to be a big hit, built of the torque engine!
12/04/2004 (10:05 am)
I heard about 3DGPAI1 :) And thanks for the help ;)
i know it's possible, i've been browsing and found a chinease MMORPG that looks like it's going to be a big hit, built of the torque engine!
#3
No books however, but David Dougher is spearheading in his spare time the concept of a MMOG Starter Kit--I most definitely wouldn't be looking for it in the next couple of months, but you would have to ask him for specifics.
12/04/2004 (11:51 am)
There are at least a couple of MMOG's based around TGE in the works, in various stages of development. We're the "rebels" of the Indy community, so you don't tend to hear too much, but there are some around!No books however, but David Dougher is spearheading in his spare time the concept of a MMOG Starter Kit--I most definitely wouldn't be looking for it in the next couple of months, but you would have to ask him for specifics.
#4
1) TGE does not have some of the technology needed out of the box, and you will need to research and develop these technologies yourself. Things such as dynamic mission generation, zoning, inventories, character creation, etc, all fall into this category.
2) There is a vast amount of assets that will need to be created to fill this world of yours. Enough said there.
3) Are you prepared to set up the business side of it? Do you have a plan for the servers needed, bandwidth, tech support, and NOC personnel?
For the above, there are several books on the market that talk about creating persistent worlds, and many are cautionary tales about how hard it is to create and maintain one. To that end, they are correct. Though they say it takes millions of dollars to fund the development of one, which is incorrect(at least from the standpoint of an indie). Get these books and read them:
Developing Online Games (Mulligan and Patrovsky)
Designing Virtual Worlds (Bartle)
Swords and Ciruitry (forgot!)
Massively Multiplayer Game Development (Alexander)
And there's most likely others out there...
Now, after you read them, if you still want to go ahead with this, then sit down and take time on your own to create the design documents, and try not to throw features in just to have them(a game revolving around cool features is a tech demo, not a game). Then, when you have a good design document and documentation on what you want done, then get a team together, but no sooner, or else the team will fall apart because everyone will get bored waiting for you to get to them things to do.
And read about the business of persistent worlds, and especially pay attention to the ones that fail, so that you know how not to make one. I say all of this only because people tend to want to make them because they're the cool new thing, as opposed to making them because that is what their game idea requires. And most teams fail(and fail fast) because they don't realize that. For the ones that get through all this, there has been relative success, and there is more to come- especially since you don't need the numbers of subscribers that the larger MMO's have in order to make a profit.
So here's a list of TGE persistent worlds that I know of:
Mine, Epic Frontiers
Adellion
Minions of Mirth
Sanctus Legacy Online
There's others, I just don't have the URL's off the top of my head.
12/04/2004 (12:50 pm)
Andy, there's no books that tell you how to do an MMO with the TGE, though the 3DGPAI1 is a great place to learn. However, a cautionary note on these kinds of games: They're extremely difficult from several standpoints...1) TGE does not have some of the technology needed out of the box, and you will need to research and develop these technologies yourself. Things such as dynamic mission generation, zoning, inventories, character creation, etc, all fall into this category.
2) There is a vast amount of assets that will need to be created to fill this world of yours. Enough said there.
3) Are you prepared to set up the business side of it? Do you have a plan for the servers needed, bandwidth, tech support, and NOC personnel?
For the above, there are several books on the market that talk about creating persistent worlds, and many are cautionary tales about how hard it is to create and maintain one. To that end, they are correct. Though they say it takes millions of dollars to fund the development of one, which is incorrect(at least from the standpoint of an indie). Get these books and read them:
Developing Online Games (Mulligan and Patrovsky)
Designing Virtual Worlds (Bartle)
Swords and Ciruitry (forgot!)
Massively Multiplayer Game Development (Alexander)
And there's most likely others out there...
Now, after you read them, if you still want to go ahead with this, then sit down and take time on your own to create the design documents, and try not to throw features in just to have them(a game revolving around cool features is a tech demo, not a game). Then, when you have a good design document and documentation on what you want done, then get a team together, but no sooner, or else the team will fall apart because everyone will get bored waiting for you to get to them things to do.
And read about the business of persistent worlds, and especially pay attention to the ones that fail, so that you know how not to make one. I say all of this only because people tend to want to make them because they're the cool new thing, as opposed to making them because that is what their game idea requires. And most teams fail(and fail fast) because they don't realize that. For the ones that get through all this, there has been relative success, and there is more to come- especially since you don't need the numbers of subscribers that the larger MMO's have in order to make a profit.
So here's a list of TGE persistent worlds that I know of:
Mine, Epic Frontiers
Adellion
Minions of Mirth
Sanctus Legacy Online
There's others, I just don't have the URL's off the top of my head.
#5
Ted:
I believe that Minions of Mirth actual uses the Quake engine. You can check out Josh's latest plan where he mentions moving over to Quake3.
Andy:
If you're looking for a bunch of reading material, you may try my resource:
www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=3405
It's not all specific to Torque, but most it works for MMO's regardless of the technology platform.
All:
If there's something that you think should be included in my resource, send it my way or put it in the comments. I should probably add Ted's list (thanks Ted!).
- LightWave Dave, Keeper of the MMO Resource
EDIT
It looks like Sanctus Legacy Online will not be using Torque, so scratch that one off the list. Looking at their news they'll be using a homegrown engine. Good luck to them!
12/04/2004 (4:21 pm)
Greetings!Ted:
I believe that Minions of Mirth actual uses the Quake engine. You can check out Josh's latest plan where he mentions moving over to Quake3.
Andy:
If you're looking for a bunch of reading material, you may try my resource:
www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=3405
It's not all specific to Torque, but most it works for MMO's regardless of the technology platform.
All:
If there's something that you think should be included in my resource, send it my way or put it in the comments. I should probably add Ted's list (thanks Ted!).
- LightWave Dave, Keeper of the MMO Resource
EDIT
It looks like Sanctus Legacy Online will not be using Torque, so scratch that one off the list. Looking at their news they'll be using a homegrown engine. Good luck to them!
#6
Thanks stephen,ted and david for all the info :) and thanks ted for the info on the documentation and the team planning, i didn't really think of that!
also thanks for all the useful reasources and books you have told me to get ;]. i'll go get them and read them :P.
I have a slight storyline and feature list of the mmog i want to do. I havent put alot of features in yet, just a few. i'll write them all out and publish them all on my site later :P. i have some written down, but on my forums people have voted that i should do a mmorpg based on a planet and in space, where you can buy ship chasis and go arround space etc. but if i do this i'm going to make 1 island first, then 1 planet and solarsystem untill it builds up with more players. Which i think is better because you can keep your players together and they wont get bored because theres only 1 or 2 players in an area.
Thanks very much!
Andy
12/05/2004 (12:36 am)
Ok, thank you all!Thanks stephen,ted and david for all the info :) and thanks ted for the info on the documentation and the team planning, i didn't really think of that!
also thanks for all the useful reasources and books you have told me to get ;]. i'll go get them and read them :P.
I have a slight storyline and feature list of the mmog i want to do. I havent put alot of features in yet, just a few. i'll write them all out and publish them all on my site later :P. i have some written down, but on my forums people have voted that i should do a mmorpg based on a planet and in space, where you can buy ship chasis and go arround space etc. but if i do this i'm going to make 1 island first, then 1 planet and solarsystem untill it builds up with more players. Which i think is better because you can keep your players together and they wont get bored because theres only 1 or 2 players in an area.
Thanks very much!
Andy
#8
Thanks Ted! I've added your resource to the GarageGames Discussion section. Thanks!
- LightWave Dave
12/06/2004 (12:28 pm)
Greetings!Thanks Ted! I've added your resource to the GarageGames Discussion section. Thanks!
- LightWave Dave
#9
Glad to see our name popping up every here and there!
01/31/2005 (11:39 am)
Just to tack on a delayed response, Sanctus Legacy will, indeed, be using Torque. A handful of our earlier screenshots have the TV3d logo, because many of our tools and prototype demos use TV3d.Glad to see our name popping up every here and there!
#10
so i wont have to go into much depth on character creation, as i doubt other players will be able to see them.
But
"No books however, but David Dougher is spearheading in his spare time the concept of a MMOG Starter Kit--I most definitely wouldn't be looking for it in the next couple of months, but you would have to ask him for specifics."
Is that true? if so, any idea when it'll be out?
03/19/2005 (10:22 am)
Well, i know now that i am going to be doing a space MMORPG, where you can buy ships, fit weapons on the ships,sheilds,etc.so i wont have to go into much depth on character creation, as i doubt other players will be able to see them.
But
"No books however, but David Dougher is spearheading in his spare time the concept of a MMOG Starter Kit--I most definitely wouldn't be looking for it in the next couple of months, but you would have to ask him for specifics."
Is that true? if so, any idea when it'll be out?
Torque Owner Leslie Young
You could probably grab some books about MMOGs and then apply the knowledge from those on your Torque based MMOG. (Just search "massively multiplayer" on Amazon, you'll find a lot).