Thinking about purchase
by Callan Bencich · in Torque Game Engine · 10/22/2004 (3:57 pm) · 18 replies
Hi,
im thinking about purchasing torque and i've been wondering. If i purchase and download torque, does it come with all the front end programs (.exe, .bat etc) or is it all in code and millions of files and requires compiling in another program. Im only asking this because i have no idea what do do if that is the case. The only 'programming' code i know is macromedia's actionscript (which is pretty limited) and i own none of these programs mentioned like visual c++ and whatnot. So can anyone answer my question, it would be a great help.
I know this all this probabably sound stupid, but i am very interested in creating my own game (i have ideas) and am very willing to learn, no matter what it takes.
Help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
GuK
im thinking about purchasing torque and i've been wondering. If i purchase and download torque, does it come with all the front end programs (.exe, .bat etc) or is it all in code and millions of files and requires compiling in another program. Im only asking this because i have no idea what do do if that is the case. The only 'programming' code i know is macromedia's actionscript (which is pretty limited) and i own none of these programs mentioned like visual c++ and whatnot. So can anyone answer my question, it would be a great help.
I know this all this probabably sound stupid, but i am very interested in creating my own game (i have ideas) and am very willing to learn, no matter what it takes.
Help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
GuK
#2
My suggestion is to first develop at least a few games in GameMaker (www.gamemaker.nl). It is a great program for creating 2D games. It uses GML which is a very similair in syntax to C /C++. It is fairly easy to use, but HIGHLY customizable. And it does not require any outside programs (though a 2d editor such as Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro is suggested for content).
After you get the hang of it you can gradually step into Torque.
Good luck.
10/22/2004 (9:13 pm)
It sounds to me like you may not be ready for Torque yet. My suggestion is to first develop at least a few games in GameMaker (www.gamemaker.nl). It is a great program for creating 2D games. It uses GML which is a very similair in syntax to C /C++. It is fairly easy to use, but HIGHLY customizable. And it does not require any outside programs (though a 2d editor such as Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro is suggested for content).
After you get the hang of it you can gradually step into Torque.
Good luck.
#3
-Download the demo and start the FPS example - hit F11 and look at all the options you have to modify.
-Open up the .cs files and see what they do.
-This site is really useful for using as a starting point and seeing how things work.
-Head on over to this site and visit its tutorial section as well
-Search the resources / forums for beginner tutorials
10/22/2004 (9:44 pm)
If he can use actionscript he can learn Torquescript :)-Download the demo and start the FPS example - hit F11 and look at all the options you have to modify.
-Open up the .cs files and see what they do.
-This site is really useful for using as a starting point and seeing how things work.
-Head on over to this site and visit its tutorial section as well
-Search the resources / forums for beginner tutorials
#4
Even if you do decide to purchase a license, I would strongly suggest buying and working your way through the book first.
10/23/2004 (1:52 am)
Buying the 3D Game Programming All In One will also help, as it includes everything you need to start learning how to create games with Torque.Even if you do decide to purchase a license, I would strongly suggest buying and working your way through the book first.
#5
There is a LARGE difference between being able to program TorqueScript and making a full game. Even if you don't need core engine modifications (which most do), the heavy Torque Script work you have to do is something that takes knowledge of the flow and order of the game loop. Experience is very important in this kind of situation. There are people out there that can read a few books and try some tutorials and be fine, but they are few and far between.
10/23/2004 (8:12 am)
@Vernon:There is a LARGE difference between being able to program TorqueScript and making a full game. Even if you don't need core engine modifications (which most do), the heavy Torque Script work you have to do is something that takes knowledge of the flow and order of the game loop. Experience is very important in this kind of situation. There are people out there that can read a few books and try some tutorials and be fine, but they are few and far between.
#6
If you can handle actionscript, then IMO you can handle TorqueScript. I had never compiled any programs in my life before TGE but I wasn't about to let that stop me from making a game. I learned, you can to. Don't let "I don't know how" be your motto.
IMO the hundred bucks is well worth it for all you get. You get the source code, and access to a lot more people and resources than you will on the public side, and you get access to more documentation that will steer you along. Anyone who REALLY wants to do this can do this. Especially if you already have some coding experience. Even if you don't compile the source for months, you can still look at it and learn from it. While you are doing so you can do what Stefan suggested and just download the Demo's .exe to work with untill you are ready to do your own compiling. If you ask me, just having access to the private forums, resources, documentation, and members is worth the hundred bucks even without the source code.
Bottom line, if you REALLY want to make your own games, and YOU think you are capable of doing so, then stop wasting your time thinking about it or letting others tell you how hard it is and just jump right in here and get started. I could think of a lot worse ways to spend a hundred bucks.
10/23/2004 (11:24 am)
@ CallanIf you can handle actionscript, then IMO you can handle TorqueScript. I had never compiled any programs in my life before TGE but I wasn't about to let that stop me from making a game. I learned, you can to. Don't let "I don't know how" be your motto.
IMO the hundred bucks is well worth it for all you get. You get the source code, and access to a lot more people and resources than you will on the public side, and you get access to more documentation that will steer you along. Anyone who REALLY wants to do this can do this. Especially if you already have some coding experience. Even if you don't compile the source for months, you can still look at it and learn from it. While you are doing so you can do what Stefan suggested and just download the Demo's .exe to work with untill you are ready to do your own compiling. If you ask me, just having access to the private forums, resources, documentation, and members is worth the hundred bucks even without the source code.
Bottom line, if you REALLY want to make your own games, and YOU think you are capable of doing so, then stop wasting your time thinking about it or letting others tell you how hard it is and just jump right in here and get started. I could think of a lot worse ways to spend a hundred bucks.
#7
10/23/2004 (12:44 pm)
Let me chime in with Gonzo here. I had never done anything more advanced than a DOS solitare before going with TGE.
#8
Thanks everyone (particularly Gonzo and Kyle) for the support.
GuK
10/23/2004 (4:23 pm)
Thanks for the advice everyone, it always helps. But, at the moment, i think jumping from nothing to 3d game designing is to big a step. I think i will take Kyle's advice and work with something like Gamemaker for a while, you know learn basics and more before going on to something so advanced, besides, 2d games are sweet too. I just don't think im ready for such a big step yet. Thanks everyone (particularly Gonzo and Kyle) for the support.
GuK
#9
Lets get over this "if you don't want to compile the source, then why do you want to buy the SDK" crap. I am sick and tired of hearing that line. Code is only ONE part of a game. I don't see anyone turning away coders that can't create models, meshes, maps textures, sounds, etc.
If anything, Toque is a good learning tool. Its essentially true that if he can handle ActionScript, then he can also handle TorqueScript.
However, we really can't use RealmWars as a model for scripted Gameflow and Logic- because it doesn't really handle those things in depth. Those 100+ script files are mostly used to get the game from zero to spawning the player. Thats a massive amount of files for that one task, too many in fact (granted, most of it is GUI, settings,and branching). Once the player is spawned, very little of the scripts are utilized, beyond capturing mouse and keyboard input.
I've super-simplified the scripts getting them down to a couple dozen easily digestable files. And they still perform the exact same task- getting from zero to spawning a player. But that alone was a major overhaul.
10/23/2004 (4:50 pm)
Yeah, way to go guys... turn him away because "he's not ready". What a crock of shit.Lets get over this "if you don't want to compile the source, then why do you want to buy the SDK" crap. I am sick and tired of hearing that line. Code is only ONE part of a game. I don't see anyone turning away coders that can't create models, meshes, maps textures, sounds, etc.
If anything, Toque is a good learning tool. Its essentially true that if he can handle ActionScript, then he can also handle TorqueScript.
However, we really can't use RealmWars as a model for scripted Gameflow and Logic- because it doesn't really handle those things in depth. Those 100+ script files are mostly used to get the game from zero to spawning the player. Thats a massive amount of files for that one task, too many in fact (granted, most of it is GUI, settings,and branching). Once the player is spawned, very little of the scripts are utilized, beyond capturing mouse and keyboard input.
I've super-simplified the scripts getting them down to a couple dozen easily digestable files. And they still perform the exact same task- getting from zero to spawning a player. But that alone was a major overhaul.
#10
Im now 18 and ive just finished VCE (just exams left) and am currently unemployed. I dont own visual c++, or alternatives, and really have no idea what to do with them even if i had them, though im willing to learn. Im interested in animation, 3D and 2D, and game design, 3D and 2D. Though i have absolutely no experience in programming, once again i am willing to learn.
There is only one problem i have with TGE, once i get all the source code after purchase and download, i do not have the slightest clue what to do with it, besides the fact its called compiling. Thats basically my only issue, besides money(not just for TGE) and programming knowledge.
Sorry to chew anyones ear, or eyes, off but this might help those willing to help. And Randall, i dont think im ready for something so big yet. Besides, im fine with 2D for now.
GuK
10/23/2004 (5:09 pm)
Im actually cool with just mucking around with programs and looking up tutorials and trying to pull apart examples and such, but maybe i should have descibed myself first. Im now 18 and ive just finished VCE (just exams left) and am currently unemployed. I dont own visual c++, or alternatives, and really have no idea what to do with them even if i had them, though im willing to learn. Im interested in animation, 3D and 2D, and game design, 3D and 2D. Though i have absolutely no experience in programming, once again i am willing to learn.
There is only one problem i have with TGE, once i get all the source code after purchase and download, i do not have the slightest clue what to do with it, besides the fact its called compiling. Thats basically my only issue, besides money(not just for TGE) and programming knowledge.
Sorry to chew anyones ear, or eyes, off but this might help those willing to help. And Randall, i dont think im ready for something so big yet. Besides, im fine with 2D for now.
GuK
#11
Because compiling code is THE only reason you must by the SDK?. If he doesn't want to compile code, he can simply use the (free) executable and script away to his hearts content.
He can use the demo for months until he feels comfortable enough, or is interested enough in buying the SDK and a compiler environment.
10/23/2004 (9:13 pm)
@Randall: Quote:Lets get over this "if you don't want to compile the source, then why do you want to buy the SDK" crap.
Because compiling code is THE only reason you must by the SDK?. If he doesn't want to compile code, he can simply use the (free) executable and script away to his hearts content.
He can use the demo for months until he feels comfortable enough, or is interested enough in buying the SDK and a compiler environment.
#12
And he STILL ends up buying the SDK without needing or wanting the compiler environment. Then when he comes to the private Forum for help, you respond with the SAME dumbass question "if you don't want to compile the source, then why do you want to buy the SDK".
This is exactly what happened to me, and it pisses me off, quite frankly.
If GG wants to refund my money, fine, but people NEED to quit acting like the source code is the SOLE reason to buy the SDK. People may want the private forum support, access to the documentation, license to SELL their creation, use Torque as a learning environment or gain experience.
Once again, if GG wants to refund my money because I don't NEED the sourcecode then I am all for it. But I expect that I will still have the access to the items above, including selling my creation. But I know GG won't go for that.
10/23/2004 (10:23 pm)
Quote:
He can use the demo for months until he feels comfortable enough, or is interested enough in buying the SDK and a compiler environment.
And he STILL ends up buying the SDK without needing or wanting the compiler environment. Then when he comes to the private Forum for help, you respond with the SAME dumbass question "if you don't want to compile the source, then why do you want to buy the SDK".
This is exactly what happened to me, and it pisses me off, quite frankly.
If GG wants to refund my money, fine, but people NEED to quit acting like the source code is the SOLE reason to buy the SDK. People may want the private forum support, access to the documentation, license to SELL their creation, use Torque as a learning environment or gain experience.
Once again, if GG wants to refund my money because I don't NEED the sourcecode then I am all for it. But I expect that I will still have the access to the items above, including selling my creation. But I know GG won't go for that.
#13
Its fun to play around. I've been on this site nearly a year and I still haven't purchased the SDK. I'll do that once I'm ready to crank into some serious stuff.
The scripts weren't that tough to figure out. There are a couple of useful resources around. Not sure how out of date, but Melv May documented the sequence scripts are called and Ron Yaketta has a word document floating around that lists the script functions and what they do.
At least have a play before deciding its too hard :)
10/23/2004 (10:33 pm)
Callan > Don't be put off by thinking this 3d thing is really hard. Definitely download the demo and open the world editor (by pressing F11) and you see you can terraform terrain with a few mouse clicks, and add objects into a scene easily (as long as they are correct format).Its fun to play around. I've been on this site nearly a year and I still haven't purchased the SDK. I'll do that once I'm ready to crank into some serious stuff.
The scripts weren't that tough to figure out. There are a couple of useful resources around. Not sure how out of date, but Melv May documented the sequence scripts are called and Ron Yaketta has a word document floating around that lists the script functions and what they do.
At least have a play before deciding its too hard :)
#14
Does that mean the demo or what?
10/23/2004 (10:37 pm)
Quote:he can simply use the (free) executable and script away to his hearts content.
Does that mean the demo or what?
#15
10/23/2004 (10:41 pm)
To be honest, i had no idea the demo could actually do stuff, i thought it was just, well, a demonstration of what you could do. I didn't realize you could edit stuff
#16
You can also analyze and modify the scripts.
*.cs files are scripts. *.gui files are scripts as well (they contain user Interface stuff). You can even change textures and graphics (swap out some ground texture files for instance).
10/23/2004 (11:01 pm)
Yes, you can edit the demo (which is a bit different than the FPS demo in the SDK). Load a mission and press F11.You can also analyze and modify the scripts.
*.cs files are scripts. *.gui files are scripts as well (they contain user Interface stuff). You can even change textures and graphics (swap out some ground texture files for instance).
#17
Oh come on, stop looking for words to turn around. You don't need the SDK if you don't want to look or even touch the code. You're obviously just looking for some flame bait, so I'll leave you at that.
I still think Callan should download the demo and get comfortable with TorqueScript. It's really not that hard, and it's free. As I said, I had never been coding much before Torque.
10/23/2004 (11:55 pm)
@Randall:Oh come on, stop looking for words to turn around. You don't need the SDK if you don't want to look or even touch the code. You're obviously just looking for some flame bait, so I'll leave you at that.
I still think Callan should download the demo and get comfortable with TorqueScript. It's really not that hard, and it's free. As I said, I had never been coding much before Torque.
#18
I wasn't turning anyone away. I told him how I, and many people, got into game design. It's one thing to poke around at an engine, it's another to make a good game. I think everyone should work up and build from the ground level on. I actually believe that crappy games stem from people without traditional experience in design. The truth is every GOOD game is just reiterating old school ideas in a new way. I know my first games were very poorly deisnged and I learned from 2d, where it is easy to build a game quickly and see the results (by yourself mind you).
That's my too bits, I wasn't turning anyone away, I was actually asking them to go learn then come back. Once he learns enough he'll be able to see Torque is the best 3d engine out there (if you let community and price play a role). Many people who leave Torque do it becuase they buy it and get lost in it, I know cuase I was one of them...
10/24/2004 (9:46 pm)
Wow. This got turned around. I wasn't turning anyone away. I told him how I, and many people, got into game design. It's one thing to poke around at an engine, it's another to make a good game. I think everyone should work up and build from the ground level on. I actually believe that crappy games stem from people without traditional experience in design. The truth is every GOOD game is just reiterating old school ideas in a new way. I know my first games were very poorly deisnged and I learned from 2d, where it is easy to build a game quickly and see the results (by yourself mind you).
That's my too bits, I wasn't turning anyone away, I was actually asking them to go learn then come back. Once he learns enough he'll be able to see Torque is the best 3d engine out there (if you let community and price play a role). Many people who leave Torque do it becuase they buy it and get lost in it, I know cuase I was one of them...
Torque Owner Stefan Lundmark
If you don't want to do code then why do you want to purchase the SDK? If you purchase the SDK, you will get the source.
You need to compile this source into a binary file.
If you don't want to do this, then you should download the Torque Demo (it's not a demo in the traditional sense) and play around with that instead, until/if you feel comfortable with it and want to continue with the source.
The Torque Demo has no source, but it has a binary file pre-compiled for you.
You can do most things in the scripting language, but some things you just need the source for.