Topic: VC++, .cs & .gui files and getting up to speed

#21 I understand that a lot of people don't want to reverse engineer anything to use the engine, and I think it is their right not to have to do so. That said, we cannot document everything, in every way and make everybody happy. Each person comes at the engine with different expectations and different goals. There is no way that we can document ALL paths or processes through the engine.

In the case of wanting to use the Torque to create cut scenes, we don't sell the engine on the basis that it can be used to create cut scenes. Hoever, even though it is not specifically documented, I know it can be done, and quickly. Look at the Torque demo, it is essentially one big cut scene. If it were me, I would look at that code, which is a freely available example, and figure out how it was done. Again, this is reverse engineering, but it is all we have right now. As a true solution I would love to have a cut scene editor that would allow the Machinima guys to make their real time 3D movies. We are a big supporter of this movement and have attended their conference and meet with Paul and the boys every time we are in New York (subtle hint-- here is a commercial opportunity to create an editor that can be sold on the GG site)

As to Richard's other points, he is right on. Richard actually turned me onto JBoss a couple of years ago, and I have been using it as an example of what GG should look like. We are working on more books. Ken's book just scratched the surface. GarageGames Press is on the drawing boards and in development (watch for announcements at IGC).

-Jeff Tunnell GG

#22 >I would put it to you that an "intrepid and inquisitive developer" would wonder why >GuiAviBitmapCtrl was disabled in the first place, then read through the code to figure out >why.

Or he could search the forums and find that someone posted a fix and discuss with them how to work around the problem. He might even get an answer back today that yes, the fix is still valid. He might even be aware the not everything in TGE works perfectly and not be too... torqued about it when it doesn't.

But then, I am a professional software developer and I understand the concept of imperfect software and have a sense of the ratio between what $100 should buy and what it doesn't.

#23 >As to Richard's other points, he is right on. Richard actually turned me onto JBoss a couple >of years ago, and I have been using it as an example of what GG should look like.

You jusy made my day.

>Look at the Torque demo, it is essentially one big cut scene.

Doh! I'll give it a look.

#24 The documentation is in the code. :-)

I take lag in the official documentation as a sign of progress for the codebase. For official releases however, a documentation exercise should ideally still be carried out before release.

Might I suggest an alternative, less cost/time-intensive form of documentation? Have a screen-capture video of a developer's screen as he develops the 2 main starter kits. The developer can at the same time, give an oral narrative of his thought processes and explain what he is doing, pointing out the sights along the way. This 'tutorial movie' can then be burnt to cd and sold on the site.

This would at least give a jump start to developers new to Torque, and even those new to programming. Those with enough stomach after that to want to know more, would at least be more comfortable finding their own answers.

#25 Richard,

Quote:Or he could search the forums and find that someone posted a fix and discuss with them how to work around the problem. He might even get an answer back today that yes, the fix is still valid. He might even be aware the not everything in TGE works perfectly and not be too... torqued about it when it doesn't.

Part of my point was that most of these kind of issues are much quicker to solve just by reading the source and experimenting. Perhaps I am slightly jaded by having worked with medium - large code bases for so long and I am used to digging around in swathes of code to figure out how things do. That said, Torque is very modular and things like VC++'s browse info make it extremely quick to find answers to questions. It also means you learn the engine and how things fit together much quicker.

T.

#26 Tom Bampton, the fixes/ease of use being thought of for Torque isn't directed at someone at your level/experience. For you there would probally be little or no benifit for some of these enhancements. For those new to C/C++ and reading code is new, game programming is new, modeling is new, torque script is new... well its easy to be lost.

#27 Dan,

Yeh, but Richard mentioned he was already an experienced C++ programmer, and thats why I mentioned what I did.

T.

#28 Seriously, I like the vibe I'm getting from GG these days and I think much of what has been frustrating with TGE will be smoothed out in the next year.