CVS !?!?

#1 Two links that will probably be helpful :)

CVS FAQ and Getting Started with CVS

Hopefully I haven't screwed up the url tags :)

Edit: Looks like I did - fixed

#2 I'm assuming you can see this(since you are not an SDK owner)

www.garagegames.com/docs/torque/general/apbs02.php


Torque has pretty darn good documentation and a decent forums search feature. It comes in handy to keep from asking those questions that shows everyone you haven't tried either one of them.

Quote:If I cannot use this CVS without an internet connection, am I able to download the engine and it's respective updates as a normal download ie: a zip file ?

You can't download anything without a net connection. Doesn't matter what it is. There is no Zip pack for Torque that I know of. You can get a precompiled SDK though.

#3 I cant see that Gonzo - it just tells me I don't own the SDK and where to buy it (which I will after summer)

#4 Ack - I must remember not to refresh after I've posted - these forums decide to make another post :P

(any mod with the power can delete this)

#5 @Mic: CVS is a source code versioning system and repository. It is used to hold the Torque SDK and is available to registered SDK owners. The details to access it are hidden for obvious reasons :) CVS clients come in various flavors (I use WinCVS), and a quick google will show you one. A nice place to "practice" CVS and see how it works would be sourceforge.org .. if you are interested.

You need an internet connection of course to download the SDK, but once it is downloaded, you can work with it offline.

I hope this answered your questions!

#6 Installable Torque is right around the corner. No CVS required. Using source code control is actually very powerful and should be considered a great feature, instead, many people do not understand it, so we are going to offer an installable version.

#7 It might be an idea to make it more obvious that precompiled binaries of the engine and tools are also available for Windows users, as they're a much simpler option for those using Torque for the first time.

Setting up CVS and a compiler can be a pain when you haven't used them before and want to start learning TorqueScript and/or what the engine can do first.

Of course, an even easier method is to buy 3D Game Programing All In One and install the precompiled binaries from the CDROM. :)

#8 But if you're only going to use the precompiled binaries why license torque at all? You only need the license if you want to modify the engine/have access to the source which I'm assuming isn't your intent since you're wondering what CVS is (and most people who were into C++ and going to modify the engine would know). Not trying to say you don't know what you're doing, just saying you can save yourself $100 if you just want to work with the precompiled binaries and modify the script.

#9 Thanks everyone for there help.

I am by trade a Visual Basic programmer, but have played around with C++ and C# on several occasions so I am hoping to mod the engine sometime down the line once I've become familiar with the concepts - that's why I'm wanting to license the engine.

I am just unfamiliar with the CVS concept.

Mic

#10 Kyle: Purchasing a license doesn't just allow you to download the source code, it also gives you access to private TGE forums, additional documentation and a number of useful resources. It's also necessary to distribute games based on the engine.

It's easier to learn how the engine works if you have access to the source for the engine and tools. Even if you know you're going to modify the source code in the future, it doesn't mean that you have to attempt that immediately.

The majority of new license owners download the source, compile it and then concentrate on gathering all the necessary software together to learn how to use the engine. It might be months before they look inside the source files, and even longer before they feel confident enough to edit and recompile them.

Before they reach that point, there is little need to have the source, a CVS program or a compiler.

Looking back at what I've learned about Torque so far, I would advise those thinking of using it to take the following path:-

Download and experiment with the demo.
Purchase 3D Game Programming All In One.
Read it from cover to cover.
Start the book again, this time following the instructions.
Experiment some more and ask questions here.
Purchase a Torque license.
Read through the additional docs.
Download the binaries.
Gather any necessary resources.
Experiment some more and ask questions here.
Download the source.
Download Doxygen and use it to create the source docs.
Obtain a compiler and use it to compile the engine and tools.
Experiment some more and ask questions here.
Modify the source as necessary, and recompile.

#11 "It's also necessary to distribute games based on the engine."

Incorrect; if you only modify the script files you do not need a license since the demo binaries are all that are necessary along ith your scripts, but since he intends to modify the engine that's neither here nor there in this case.

@Mic Sorry, guess I jumped to the conclusion that anyone familiar with C++ would know about CVS. I suppose it's possible to have always used Visual Source Safe (ugh) or have worked on solo projects and not know about it.

#12 I'd insert another step to the list of things to do starting with torque, right at the beginning (at least for coders):
Acquire a CS education of some sort or become at least very knowledgable about C++, OpenGL, and linear algebra.

#13 The docs that come with the Torque demo do not give permission for any of the files to be redistributed, so you wouldn't be able to give/sell others the executable, the scripts or the assets.

Strictly speaking, all you could do is distribute completely new scripts and assets (the existing ones are copyrighted) for those that already have an engine executable.

If the demo could be freely distributed, you'd see it at sites like Tucows and Download.com

#14 Kyle, that part about CS is total bull, and contrary to the idea of using an engine :)

Of course, those skills will help, obviously, but the idea of GG being an indie (and hobbyist) enabler is that people with little technical or artistic background can get into game making, without having to learn the intricacies of 3d programming, etc.
So saying that it is necessary to have a comp sci education or mastery of C++, OpenGL and linear algebra is just raising the bar way too high, and totally contrary to the spirit of this community :)

You don't need to master linear algebra to use the vector and matrix manipulation functionality in TGE...

You don't need to know about the intricacies of OpenGL, or even the basics to make a game with TGE, since the scenegraph is built on top of it, etc.

And you certainly don't need to master C++ to script :) (without going into the fact that they're very few real C++ masters, since it's such a wide and deep language... ;))

One of TGE's very strong points, is that it can be used to make games as is, solely with scripting.

Again, don't get me wrong, to tackle the C++ codebase, at least the part about C++ helps, and such warnings are already present in numerous places on the site, as well as warnings about a steep learning curve, and this NOT being a click/drag and drop gamemaker...

Keep on Torquin' !!

#15 Hi guys,

Thanks for the reponses, I'm taking all comments on-board.

As I stated before, I have worked with C++ and C# before so I know them on a fairly basic level.

And I have worked with OpenGL and DirectX before, but through the TV3Dsdk for Visual Basic. I have pretty much mastered that now, which is why I am looking for pastures new.

And yeah Kyle, you guessed it, we use SourceSafe !!

Thanks again everyone.

Mic