Question on the TSE roadmap..
by Jacob Dankovchik · in General Discussion · 09/14/2004 (4:15 pm) · 27 replies
Since the TSE section is totally empty pretty much, i thought i'd post here to hopefully get an answer.
I noticed on the roadmap water gets mentioned. And in the other TSE section it talks about water reflection most likly working on all shaders, but refraction only on 2.0.. This made me ask the question: Is GG going to add water reflection and refraction for us?? And if so, to what extent on the reflection? Like, will it only reflect ur surroundings, or will you be able to peer at the water surface and see your distorted face peer back?
If this is the case, i think that'll be awesome to say the least.. ;) After hearin all the hype i heard on HL2's water, to have that in my own game would be amazing.. And i hope very mch this IS the case..
I noticed on the roadmap water gets mentioned. And in the other TSE section it talks about water reflection most likly working on all shaders, but refraction only on 2.0.. This made me ask the question: Is GG going to add water reflection and refraction for us?? And if so, to what extent on the reflection? Like, will it only reflect ur surroundings, or will you be able to peer at the water surface and see your distorted face peer back?
If this is the case, i think that'll be awesome to say the least.. ;) After hearin all the hype i heard on HL2's water, to have that in my own game would be amazing.. And i hope very mch this IS the case..
#2
09/14/2004 (4:45 pm)
Eh, i was askin if GG was doin it.. :P If they are, not much point in me worrying about it, is there? And the water isnt whats only visible with 2.0, it said the refraction is.. Not water, refraction.. ;)
#3
09/14/2004 (10:27 pm)
It all depends on how much rendering power you want to burn on the feature. :)
#5
09/14/2004 (11:09 pm)
TGE water already has reflections doesnt it?
#6
09/15/2004 (12:49 am)
Will: It's very basic... I'm sure they're talking water ala Farcry using Pixelshaders.... When running on those beaches... I just wish i could swop my gun for a cocktail... ;)
#8
09/15/2004 (1:18 am)
Shaders schmaders :)
#9
09/15/2004 (1:54 am)
Ya, i want the full deal on water! I wanna see myself in the water, i wanna see refractions, i want the whole mess! :P I really dont care about power it'll take cause with today's technology, and the technology that'll be common by the time TSE is released, or the game im making with it, such graphics won't be hard at all.. So ya, i hope GG is gonna give a full deal on it all so i won't need worry on it.. ;)
#11
09/15/2004 (3:32 am)
Yeh..lol You could attempt it yourself, its not that difficult. TSE already has both reflections and refractions working, But the waterblock class needs recoding first.
#13
09/15/2004 (4:04 am)
I beat you... I can do Hello Planet!
#14
Oh, and we're gunning for a TSE release next year, it will not take forever guys.
09/15/2004 (3:22 pm)
Yes, we are planning on having reflection and refraction on the water when it's done. There will likely be separate rendering types for ps1.1 and 2.0 pixel shaders. We're planning on full reflection support, and a cubemap (skybox) reflection fallback which should be much faster.Oh, and we're gunning for a TSE release next year, it will not take forever guys.
#15
09/15/2004 (5:24 pm)
Next year? May i ask how far into next year? Im very excited about TSE and if i can get any form of idea on its release, that'd make me a happy lil boy.. lol ;)
#17
Careful folks, we're all developers here. Poor Brian will give an honest guess at a fair Date X, Things(tm) will happen in the meantime to slip schedule, and someone will start sniping about how they "pinned their release schedule to the promised availability of water enhancements on Date X."
(Not you specifically Jacob, I've just seen it happen so many times.)
So when I hear "next year" I just assume "11:59pm Dec 31, 2005, maybe". ;-)
09/16/2004 (6:33 am)
"Next year? May i ask how far into next year?"Careful folks, we're all developers here. Poor Brian will give an honest guess at a fair Date X, Things(tm) will happen in the meantime to slip schedule, and someone will start sniping about how they "pinned their release schedule to the promised availability of water enhancements on Date X."
(Not you specifically Jacob, I've just seen it happen so many times.)
So when I hear "next year" I just assume "11:59pm Dec 31, 2005, maybe". ;-)
#18
09/16/2004 (10:58 am)
Ya i know what ya mean.. Myself, im not like that at all... I understand the concept of an estimated date.. Sad thing is, some others cant.. Although if we can get one from GG that'd be good, and hoepfully anyone who reads understands its not a promise at all.. ;) 
#19
We are not commenting on or promising dates, but we are trying to manage expectations. We don't want to overpromise, but we don't want to under promise either. Next year some time does not translate to the end of next year, so that is why we are commenting on this thread.
Brian and the rest of GG are working very hard on IGC, and specifically completion of the rearranged Milestone 1 for TSE (you will be more than surprised at the quality of this demo). After MS1, we will be doing some rearranging of MS2 to include terrain, vehicles, and water so TSE will be essentially TGE with shaders. MS2 will follow MS1 fairly quickly, and that is probably when we will drop the early adopter pricing. After MS2, Brian will begin shadows and dynamic lighting.
-Jeff Tunnell GG
09/16/2004 (12:01 pm)
TSE will never be done. TGE still isn't done. By Milestone 2 you will pretty safely be able to make your game on TSE. If you know what you are doing, you can use it now. I know of three games that are using TSE.We are not commenting on or promising dates, but we are trying to manage expectations. We don't want to overpromise, but we don't want to under promise either. Next year some time does not translate to the end of next year, so that is why we are commenting on this thread.
Brian and the rest of GG are working very hard on IGC, and specifically completion of the rearranged Milestone 1 for TSE (you will be more than surprised at the quality of this demo). After MS1, we will be doing some rearranging of MS2 to include terrain, vehicles, and water so TSE will be essentially TGE with shaders. MS2 will follow MS1 fairly quickly, and that is probably when we will drop the early adopter pricing. After MS2, Brian will begin shadows and dynamic lighting.
-Jeff Tunnell GG
#20
09/16/2004 (1:22 pm)
Well, that all sounds pretty good! :D Honestly, the release time doesnt bother me, just so long as its before a year from now... I'd still live with that, but i'd like it to be a bit sooner.. ;) But regardless, im sure you guys will turn out a great engine for us on good time. So always would like to take this time to say Thanks very much GG, your truly givin great power to the people!Your really extending a helping hand to everyone by givin high level technology at very affordable prices! :D You guys rule! ;)
Torque 3D Owner Xavier "eXoDuS" Amado
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As for TSE's water, no work was done on that area yet so it's hard to say what will be put in there. But making a water that is only visible with PS2.0 shaders is like suicide, or close.