Reselling?

#61 This is "Gathering of Developers in Switzerland"... totally different...

GODS instead of GOD... Though, why it isn't GODIS I can't say...

#62 Really gone over the top with the bump mapping.

And nothing looks new, just looks like TSE too me.

More screen shots on http://www.tell-thegame.ch/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=7&Itemid=77

#63 We will be watching this release very carefully. I'm sure you used clean room techniques.

#64

Quote:
Josh Ritter wrote:
The site features some very Torquesque looking screenies:

[url=http://www.tell-thegame.ch/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=7&Itemid=76 ]Screenshots[/url]

This 1st screenshot you mentioned as well as the second screen there are from a torque based test application, they don't only have a torquesque look. They show nothing of our engine.

The last 3 screens there, showing a terrain scene, are taken in a test app based on our engine. If you could find anything torquesque there, you must be dreaming.
They show realtime lightscattering (based on the algorithm presented on ATI.com) as well as realtime shadows based on a horizon texture.
One of the terrain-screens

Edit1: some scribal errors

#65 Hey stefan

if this engine does all that you claim then you could change the face of indies. For once we would have a level playing field with the corprate developers. this is a fantastic opertuity for you and every indie out there. or you could sell it on to faceless corprate developers. dude this is a great opertunity for us to be equal (in terms of doveloping power) to big doveloping companies. you could make this change

dude thats just my thoughts

plus the fact that you have to own an old licence isnt gonna be a good selling point.

regards

Mozel

#66 @Mozel: How do you figure? He wants $100,000 for the complete package. TSE will be around $300.

We also have no information about if it is cross-platform capable, what the asset pipelines are like, if it manages instanced resources, how it handles scripting, what it's rendering performance is like, how it handles animations, the list goes on and on.

IMO, even if this package achieves 10 times the claims we've seen, it does absolutely nothing for Indy Developers.

#67

#68

Quote:if this engine does all that you claim then you could change the face of indies. For once we would have a level playing field with the corprate developers.

A level playing field with corporate developers? How so? So teams have more eye-candy in their unfinished projects? I mean, come on, the engine doesn't make you level with a corporation- innovation does.

Orbz, Marble Blast, etc. aren't succeding because of some misplaced pursuit of the newest features, but because the games are fun to play. You can make the best looking game out there, and if it plays like crap, then it's just a shiny, cool-looking piece of crap... Corporate games are, to a very large degree, the result of marketing departments driving development departments, instead of marketing what's developed.

Hype over substance leads to failure.

#69 True although it is quality over substance (in our eyes) in many it isnt. take the masses and there views on games. You see a bit eye candy and it is supposed to make a good game. I do not believe this but in alot of peoples eyes, visuals can say alot about the game itself. This seems to be a technological step forward which is been wasted on the narrow minded faceless corporations (of which there are plenty engines for one with so much money to buy)

say the price was in the range of an indie (including all the obligitory indie features e.g. cross compatibility) would there be a reason not to buy this. it would be a product of which many indies would find new INNOVATIVE ways to use and/or improve this already impressive "engine" (i know its not really a full engine but i cannot think of the proper word)

regards Mozel

#70 One thing that comes to mind for not purchasing this (despite the sticker shock) is that it does not have a proven track record yet. What titles are under development with this? Savy developers are not going to buy the 'Hey this is cooler than engine X' just because the seller says so, put up or shut up. Lets see a demo with networking capability, physics, seemless indoor/outdoor transitions, model formats (players, static objects, vehicles, etc.), scripting language, yadda, yadda, yadda. TGE (then V12?) was used to develop a top notch title (Tribes2) that you could buy and play and there are current titles that you can buy and play too.

If you have enhancements to TGE, then sell them as an enhancement pack. If you just reverse engineered the TGE (or TSE for that matter) to make your own engine, then what is the point? So far I haven't seen anything in the screenshots that I couldn't replicate with some of my own work with what already exists in TGE.

I am not trying to burst your bubble, but don't forget who your audience is here on this forum. Build a kick-ass game with playable features then we'll talk. Dynamic lights are cool, but if it doesn't enhance the game play, then all you are left with is a pretty tech demo (DOOM 3 - I mean all that 'eye candy' and you spend 90% of the game running around in the dark!? Why do I need a PC with steriods to run that agian? ;P ).

#71

Quote:say the price was in the range of an indie (including all the obligitory indie features e.g. cross compatibility) would there be a reason not to buy this.

It's the "including all the obligitory indie features e.g. cross compatibility" that's the problem there. All they're offering is "improvements" without many details. A few pics that are mediocre, with features that I can get by buying TSE and redoing some lighting code(even they admit that they used examples by ATI- not that it's wrong, but that certainly doesn't make it some proprietary wonder-feature that is worth what they asked), or maybe not, seeing that TSE is far from reaching it's full potential yet.

Quote:it would be a product of which many indies would find new INNOVATIVE ways to use and/or improve this already impressive "engine"

And herein lies the other problem. This isn't innovative. They're certainly not coming out with any features that haven't been done before in high-end engines that I know of. If they pull off the engine, the graphics will look good, sure, but where's the innovation in that? Better looking crap, like I said before. It's all about the quality of the game made with the engine, not the quality of the engine that the game is made with. Same goes for TGE, but at least I'm not spending $100,000 to find out that my game design might be horrible...

You're right in that a lot of people out there will scoop up a game with great eye-candy as opposed to one without, but that's just the short-term view of the market. If most of these GG games went out on the traditional box channel, they'd probably be in the bargain bin right now, because publishers don't recognize the slow and steady sales of other industries. It's either an instant hit or it's not, and every bit of their energy is poured into that release date.

On the other hand, truly innovative games can sell with the most simplistic of graphics for years on end, providing a slow but steady, and eventually greater, return on investment. Look at the rerelease of classic arcade games. No fancy 3D upgrades there, just basically a porting of code. That's what the innovative titles bring: Long-lasting brand recognition and streams of revenue, not short-term bursts of capital that are driven by what's hot at the moment.

#72 I usually don't rant, but this whole discussion is pointless and ridiculous.

1. you post in then forum of a product that costs less than 500 Dollars that you rewrote their very engine and you'd like to have 100.000 dollars for it.
2. nobody is here because he has 100K dollars to give.
3. if they had - there are enough gifted people here to make a customized version of Torque that perfectly suits the needs of a game. That's what TGE is for.
4. again, if they had - they spend the money rather in artists and coders than in an overpriced license of an engine that isn't ready and sold not one title.
5. the GODS acronym thing is just tacky - anyone of you over 18?
6. the screenshot of the terrain could have been from Blitz3D (btw I like Blitz3D) or ANY other 3d lib out there. And it looks - well, bad.

and last but not least:
7. you basically lost all of your potential customers because of this unprofessional approach.

sorry.

#73 @ted

i whole heartedly agree with what you say about long lasting appeal and innovation. my point was that if theres a step forward here why waste it on a big facelesscompany.

#74 Does this thread have any further points that is yet to be explained or can I safely un-tick the "Notify me at blabla@blablabla.net" field ??

#75 Man, I dont see your point. You're discussing like I had asked you to buy our engine.
My original question was, if I may sell the changes I made to Torque, nothing more.
Because this was not possible, and Jeff Tunnell didnt illustrate the conditions for a co-operation like Synapse did with their lighting pack, I decided to completely rewrite the engine, without using Torque or an other engine.


Some of you mentioned the platform independence:
Our engine supports Windows, Linux as well as Mac OS.


For information:
Nobody of us is under 18 years old.
Some of us are even over 30.