Advice about work with an artist contractor
by Pat AfterMoon · in General Discussion · 07/28/2004 (3:51 pm) · 8 replies
I'm a coder / game designer on a one man project.
I have already bought a lot of the needed content (texture, 3D models, sounds ...) for my game.
I now plan to pay a contractor (work for hire) for the creation of my main 3D model (the player vehicle). Of course I need an exclusive right on the model created (can only used for my game).
I would like to read every help you can provide about this subject, and particulary :
- Estimation of price for this job
- Contract term, licence, EULA ... between the artist and me
- Your own experience if you have already worked with contactor (bad and good experience are welcome).
This model will be the main vehicle of my game, and will be used for logo, ads ...
I estimate the work will be comparable to the work needed for this model. The standard Torque vehicle animations (steering, spring ...) will be needed and 4 big wheels in place of the tracks.
I will place the Torque specific nodes and export the model myself.
- The vehicle required will be text descibed by me with some small (nasty) squetch in addition.
- Some exemples, references... will describe the style required.
- The process will probably require a little discussion with the artist and approval of a squetch from him before he really start to scult 3D.
In conclusion I am realist and I know I don't write here about a 10, 50 or 100 $$$ request but probably a lot more.
PS : please, if you are an interested artist, don't post here, contact me via my profile page. This is a request for advice thread.
I have already bought a lot of the needed content (texture, 3D models, sounds ...) for my game.
I now plan to pay a contractor (work for hire) for the creation of my main 3D model (the player vehicle). Of course I need an exclusive right on the model created (can only used for my game).
I would like to read every help you can provide about this subject, and particulary :
- Estimation of price for this job
- Contract term, licence, EULA ... between the artist and me
- Your own experience if you have already worked with contactor (bad and good experience are welcome).
This model will be the main vehicle of my game, and will be used for logo, ads ...
I estimate the work will be comparable to the work needed for this model. The standard Torque vehicle animations (steering, spring ...) will be needed and 4 big wheels in place of the tracks.
I will place the Torque specific nodes and export the model myself.
- The vehicle required will be text descibed by me with some small (nasty) squetch in addition.
- Some exemples, references... will describe the style required.
- The process will probably require a little discussion with the artist and approval of a squetch from him before he really start to scult 3D.
In conclusion I am realist and I know I don't write here about a 10, 50 or 100 $$$ request but probably a lot more.
PS : please, if you are an interested artist, don't post here, contact me via my profile page. This is a request for advice thread.
#2
Incidentally, there is a model series on Turbo Squid that is very similar to that look and feel - it's probably the same artist and I would encourage you to look into that to try and keep a consistent look and feel.
To get back on topic, the price you pay really depends on the amount of time invested and the proven talent of the artist.
What I'm saying is, if you are working with someone relatively unknown in the development community (but who has "the goods" as far as talent and ability go), but looking to make a name, they may very well cut you a pretty good deal in order to get some verifiable experience for themselves.
On the other hand, working with a well known indy artist would probably cost a bit more, if you catch my meaning.
My suggestion would be yto look through the companies listed as Art Houses and see if anyone there might work with your budget.
~Cheers
07/29/2004 (5:50 am)
As something of a digital artist myself, I can tell you that many hours of work went into designing and skinning the example you've shown. Incidentally, there is a model series on Turbo Squid that is very similar to that look and feel - it's probably the same artist and I would encourage you to look into that to try and keep a consistent look and feel.
To get back on topic, the price you pay really depends on the amount of time invested and the proven talent of the artist.
What I'm saying is, if you are working with someone relatively unknown in the development community (but who has "the goods" as far as talent and ability go), but looking to make a name, they may very well cut you a pretty good deal in order to get some verifiable experience for themselves.
On the other hand, working with a well known indy artist would probably cost a bit more, if you catch my meaning.
My suggestion would be yto look through the companies listed as Art Houses and see if anyone there might work with your budget.
~Cheers
#3
My main request is not focused on price, but most on :
- Relationship (between a project owner vs a "work for hire" contractor)
- Legal issues (is an email that confirm my propertie of the model enought, or must I request a fax, signed paper mail ...)
- Existing experience from GG community about similar situations and maybe things to do and not to do ;)
07/29/2004 (6:18 am)
Thanks for your answer. The model mentioned is only an example and I don't particulary search this look and feel, only this level of quality and complexity.My main request is not focused on price, but most on :
- Relationship (between a project owner vs a "work for hire" contractor)
- Legal issues (is an email that confirm my propertie of the model enought, or must I request a fax, signed paper mail ...)
- Existing experience from GG community about similar situations and maybe things to do and not to do ;)
#4
I've always contacted my artists through email. I also have a forum on my website that's there if they want it. The emails are civil, to the point, keeping it businesslike. Because they were volunteering, I had to tolerate them having pretty much no obligation other than their word to do any work, which is frustrating at times. If you're paying, though, you have every right to insist that reasonable deadlines are met.
As for legal issues, it all depends on how much you value the model. Most artists are honest, and won't jerk you around if you confirm the details through email. As long as it's a dated document that you can prove came from their email, it should be enough. If you have any apprehensions about the legalities, and with the amount of money you seem to be talking about, a faxed signed document might be best for peace of mind. It mostly comes down to trust.
The hardest part about contracting someone over the net is getting them to do the work. Make sure you have some way of holding them to a schedule, so you're not waiting weeks and weeks for a single model because the artist couldn't be bothered. It's a double-edge, if you don't pay them up front they often don't have much enthusiasm, but if you do pay up there's the risk that they'll do a crappy job.
I hope that clears some things up, I'm not a real expert, just an indy trying to make a game =)
07/29/2004 (6:57 am)
I've worked with over half a dozen artists, none who have charged me, but I'll tell you what I've picked up anyways.I've always contacted my artists through email. I also have a forum on my website that's there if they want it. The emails are civil, to the point, keeping it businesslike. Because they were volunteering, I had to tolerate them having pretty much no obligation other than their word to do any work, which is frustrating at times. If you're paying, though, you have every right to insist that reasonable deadlines are met.
As for legal issues, it all depends on how much you value the model. Most artists are honest, and won't jerk you around if you confirm the details through email. As long as it's a dated document that you can prove came from their email, it should be enough. If you have any apprehensions about the legalities, and with the amount of money you seem to be talking about, a faxed signed document might be best for peace of mind. It mostly comes down to trust.
The hardest part about contracting someone over the net is getting them to do the work. Make sure you have some way of holding them to a schedule, so you're not waiting weeks and weeks for a single model because the artist couldn't be bothered. It's a double-edge, if you don't pay them up front they often don't have much enthusiasm, but if you do pay up there's the risk that they'll do a crappy job.
I hope that clears some things up, I'm not a real expert, just an indy trying to make a game =)
#5
07/29/2004 (7:02 am)
Using email is just asking for trouble. Your big question appears to be 'How do I protect my a**, and maintain ownership of something I purchased?'. A very good example contract is located at www.gamebeavers.org that deals with exactly this situation. Fire off a note to Britton, and see if he minds your using it.
#6
Thye then, return the document to you adn you then go and sign with a notary public granting you two legal witnesses to the agreement.
It may be a bit "overboard" but would definitely give yuo peace of mind. =)
07/29/2004 (7:02 am)
Also - as far as legal issues go, you could always drafta written agreement and have them sign it with a notary public.Thye then, return the document to you adn you then go and sign with a notary public granting you two legal witnesses to the agreement.
It may be a bit "overboard" but would definitely give yuo peace of mind. =)
#7
07/29/2004 (7:11 am)
Pat, get in touch with Max (the guy who did your example model), he does work for hire. He's reasonably reasonable when it comes to rates and will do exclusive/non exclusive work too.
#8
I trust most artist, I only fear to buy someday something that come from another product or another artist (this is principally a risk with non exclusive content).
Phil : I'm already in contact with Max, I've bought some non exclusive content from him (the bad guy for my game come from his non exclusive production). I have requested him at the same time I have posted this thread, it's on a good way ;)
07/29/2004 (12:27 pm)
Thank you for your advices. I think I will work with email and request a signed fax when the job will be ended, just for ownership confirmation.I trust most artist, I only fear to buy someday something that come from another product or another artist (this is principally a risk with non exclusive content).
Phil : I'm already in contact with Max, I've bought some non exclusive content from him (the bad guy for my game come from his non exclusive production). I have requested him at the same time I have posted this thread, it's on a good way ;)
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