Xbox 2
by demonicmonkey · in General Discussion · 07/25/2004 (3:57 pm) · 15 replies
I heard somewhere that Xbox two will be able to play computer games, anybody else heard that?
#2
07/25/2004 (4:23 pm)
If it won't have a HDD, which seems like the most common rumour, it won't be able to play most PC games I imagine.
#3
07/25/2004 (11:52 pm)
I imagine that much like the current XBox Microsoft will make it very difficult to play PC games. 
#4
Still, the first game I bought was Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic for it. A very very good game if I may say. Still, I was a bit disappointed when I visited a friend of mine yesterday and he showed my the PC version of the same game. Its an understatement when I say that the game is beautiful in the PC version.
At least the children are happy. :)
r/Alex
07/27/2004 (1:18 am)
My wife bought an XBox instead of allowing me to get an early adopter of TSE (I wasn't very happy ... believe me).Still, the first game I bought was Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic for it. A very very good game if I may say. Still, I was a bit disappointed when I visited a friend of mine yesterday and he showed my the PC version of the same game. Its an understatement when I say that the game is beautiful in the PC version.
At least the children are happy. :)
r/Alex
#5
Bearing this in mind, not only will it be unable to play PC games, I'm fairly sure that it won't even be able to play XBox 1 games (unconfirmed).
You might be better off developing for the Phantom, perhaps?
07/28/2004 (7:13 am)
The XBox 2 doesn't even use x86 architecture. It uses a number of processors developed by IBM that have more in common with the G4/G5 processors used in Macs than they do with Intel/AMD processors. The graphics unit is built specifically for the XBox2 and the bus is specific to that platform too.Bearing this in mind, not only will it be unable to play PC games, I'm fairly sure that it won't even be able to play XBox 1 games (unconfirmed).
You might be better off developing for the Phantom, perhaps?
#6
Almost all of that is complete rumor that has not been confirmed. The supposed design does not make sense in a lot of ways and I suspect it's just BS.
Assuming all of the above were true, MSFT bought the company that made Virtual PC for Mac so putting in an emulator that runs PC or Xbox games on G5 chips is not a stretch at all, in fact it would most likely be a mandatory feature of the new Xbox if it were to include the G5 chips. All the gaming companys now know the true value of backwards compatible. Sony is the true leader because they carried their old customers into the future without alienating their old games. If MSFT were foolish enough to not do the same, you can bet they'll pay for it dearly in sales.
Me personally, if it's backwards compatible, I'll buy one as soon as it comes out at the $350 price or whatever insane amount they want. But if it's not, then I'll most likely be buying one the day they hit the $159-$199 price range. Why? Because I own a buttload of Xbox games and there are tons more of them out there. My Xbox is an older unit that was purchased at the $299 price level when they were new. Chances are my unit will bite the dust one day, and if the Xbox 2 is not BackCompat I'll end up buying another Xbox to replace it. Even though I might really want the Xbox2, I'm not gonna buy 2 Xboxs unless I can get them both for about $299 bucks.
;-)
07/28/2004 (1:19 pm)
Quote:It uses a number of processors developed by IBM that have more in common with the G4/G5 processors used in Macs than they do with Intel/AMD processors. The graphics unit is built specifically for the XBox2 and the bus is specific to that platform too.
Almost all of that is complete rumor that has not been confirmed. The supposed design does not make sense in a lot of ways and I suspect it's just BS.
Quote:Bearing this in mind, not only will it be unable to play PC games, I'm fairly sure that it won't even be able to play XBox 1 games (unconfirmed).
Assuming all of the above were true, MSFT bought the company that made Virtual PC for Mac so putting in an emulator that runs PC or Xbox games on G5 chips is not a stretch at all, in fact it would most likely be a mandatory feature of the new Xbox if it were to include the G5 chips. All the gaming companys now know the true value of backwards compatible. Sony is the true leader because they carried their old customers into the future without alienating their old games. If MSFT were foolish enough to not do the same, you can bet they'll pay for it dearly in sales.
Me personally, if it's backwards compatible, I'll buy one as soon as it comes out at the $350 price or whatever insane amount they want. But if it's not, then I'll most likely be buying one the day they hit the $159-$199 price range. Why? Because I own a buttload of Xbox games and there are tons more of them out there. My Xbox is an older unit that was purchased at the $299 price level when they were new. Chances are my unit will bite the dust one day, and if the Xbox 2 is not BackCompat I'll end up buying another Xbox to replace it. Even though I might really want the Xbox2, I'm not gonna buy 2 Xboxs unless I can get them both for about $299 bucks.
;-)
#7
Yes, there's VirtualPC but there's four more things that suggest it won't be able to play XBox games.
1) Even with three hyperthreaded G5s it might not be powerful enough to emulate the XBox completely. (Then again, it might)
2) The XBox 2 controller supposedly has fewer buttons than the XBox controller (losing the two black and white buttons)
3) It won't have a hard drive
4) When was the last time Microsoft bothered about backwards compatibility?
Saying that, we don't know yet. But I think it's in the bag that without a developer kit from Microsoft you're not going to be able to develop a game for the Xbox 2.
07/29/2004 (3:14 am)
Unconfirmed by Microsoft but those are very likely to be the specs. We'll see ;)Yes, there's VirtualPC but there's four more things that suggest it won't be able to play XBox games.
1) Even with three hyperthreaded G5s it might not be powerful enough to emulate the XBox completely. (Then again, it might)
2) The XBox 2 controller supposedly has fewer buttons than the XBox controller (losing the two black and white buttons)
3) It won't have a hard drive
4) When was the last time Microsoft bothered about backwards compatibility?
Saying that, we don't know yet. But I think it's in the bag that without a developer kit from Microsoft you're not going to be able to develop a game for the Xbox 2.
#8
Where do you get your info from?
As I stated before, the architecture doesn't make sense and all the rumors came from everyone BUT MSFT. You going to assume your going to see something MSFT never even claimed they were making? The whole rumor about the Xbox using G5 chips was started by Apples cult following based on a photograph that was taken of a pallet of G5's sitting on MSFT's loading dock at their development studio. Rational minds could and would say that it's more likely those G5's were purchased to develop the Virtual PC application for the G5 and not the Xbox. After all, Apple's G5 really does exist and the rest of what you claim is just fantasy speculation.
First off, Hyperthreading is a Pentium function, not a G5 function. Secondly, if you feel that 3 G5's are not as powerful as an 800 Mhz Pentium 3 then you are not even qualified to discuss this at all.
And once again I ask you to show me an official release from MSFT that proves the two controllers are different. So far all you have for discussion is rumors with no foundations. Put all the rumors together and make it work and the Xbox2 will cost $999.00 as it's starting price. Do you believe it will sell like that?
More rumors. And if it's not going to have a harddrive, what is it going to have? I suppose you could put flash RAM into it for storing game saves and all that, but not having a harddrive does not mean it wont work with the old games, it just means you cant port 10 gigs of music over to your Xbox.
ROTFLMAO AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't know, you ever hear of POSIX? Funny how programs that ran on Win95 are still running on WinXP for example. So to answer your question(as if it needed an answer) They have been bothered with backwards compatible since at least Windows 95. ROTFL
07/29/2004 (10:15 am)
James?Where do you get your info from?
Quote:Unconfirmed by Microsoft but those are very likely to be the specs. We'll see ;)
As I stated before, the architecture doesn't make sense and all the rumors came from everyone BUT MSFT. You going to assume your going to see something MSFT never even claimed they were making? The whole rumor about the Xbox using G5 chips was started by Apples cult following based on a photograph that was taken of a pallet of G5's sitting on MSFT's loading dock at their development studio. Rational minds could and would say that it's more likely those G5's were purchased to develop the Virtual PC application for the G5 and not the Xbox. After all, Apple's G5 really does exist and the rest of what you claim is just fantasy speculation.
Quote:1) Even with three hyperthreaded G5s it might not be powerful enough to emulate the XBox completely. (Then again, it might)
First off, Hyperthreading is a Pentium function, not a G5 function. Secondly, if you feel that 3 G5's are not as powerful as an 800 Mhz Pentium 3 then you are not even qualified to discuss this at all.
Quote:2) The XBox 2 controller supposedly has fewer buttons than the XBox controller (losing the two black and white buttons)
And once again I ask you to show me an official release from MSFT that proves the two controllers are different. So far all you have for discussion is rumors with no foundations. Put all the rumors together and make it work and the Xbox2 will cost $999.00 as it's starting price. Do you believe it will sell like that?
Quote:3) It won't have a hard drive
More rumors. And if it's not going to have a harddrive, what is it going to have? I suppose you could put flash RAM into it for storing game saves and all that, but not having a harddrive does not mean it wont work with the old games, it just means you cant port 10 gigs of music over to your Xbox.
Quote:4) When was the last time Microsoft bothered about backwards compatibility?
ROTFLMAO AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't know, you ever hear of POSIX? Funny how programs that ran on Win95 are still running on WinXP for example. So to answer your question(as if it needed an answer) They have been bothered with backwards compatible since at least Windows 95. ROTFL
#9
Why on earth did some people have to buy an MS box?
There is a sucker born every minute...
07/29/2004 (10:47 am)
I never did understand why, you get a Sony quality product, vs a MocroS**t product known for major bugs. The First product also comes with backwards compatibility with a whole crapload of games. Not to mention, the PS2 alone far outnumber the few titles for Xbox, and to add to that you get a DVD player with it and far better controller, etc.Why on earth did some people have to buy an MS box?
There is a sucker born every minute...
#10
"Hyperthreading" is a trademark of Intel, yes, but the technology is nothing specific to Intel. It's been used for a while now on many systems, mainly server-side. The G5 rumour was actually started by Microsoft and IBM making a press release that IBM would manufacture their chips based on a specific core design. It's not a G5 or a G4, but it's similar.
It might not be three separate CPUs either, it might be a number of separate CPU cores on one die. They haven't specified the clock speed, and you have to remember there's an emulation layer to consider. Even on modern PCs we've barely got the power to emulate an Atari Jaguar at full speed, because it's a whole different architecture and it's not just the CPU you have to emulate - it's the whole shebang.
Regarding the hard drive, I'm not sure myself, that's just what I've heard. It does seem like a step backwards but you can fit an awful lot on flash ram these days and Microsoft are really, really pushing the Live! thing. I suspect they'd ultimately want you to store your saves on their server. I guess they think that the Xbox2 might persuade more people to get broadband. I've no doubt that even if it didn't ship with a hard drive it'd be an optional extra.
Anyway, as I said I could be wrong. It's all speculative. I have my sources, but feel free to dig this thread up when the specs are released and mock me if my predictions are wrong :)
07/29/2004 (10:49 am)
Quote:First off, Hyperthreading is a Pentium function, not a G5 function. Secondly, if you feel that 3 G5's are not as powerful as an 800 Mhz Pentium 3 then you are not even qualified to discuss this at all.
"Hyperthreading" is a trademark of Intel, yes, but the technology is nothing specific to Intel. It's been used for a while now on many systems, mainly server-side. The G5 rumour was actually started by Microsoft and IBM making a press release that IBM would manufacture their chips based on a specific core design. It's not a G5 or a G4, but it's similar.
It might not be three separate CPUs either, it might be a number of separate CPU cores on one die. They haven't specified the clock speed, and you have to remember there's an emulation layer to consider. Even on modern PCs we've barely got the power to emulate an Atari Jaguar at full speed, because it's a whole different architecture and it's not just the CPU you have to emulate - it's the whole shebang.
Regarding the hard drive, I'm not sure myself, that's just what I've heard. It does seem like a step backwards but you can fit an awful lot on flash ram these days and Microsoft are really, really pushing the Live! thing. I suspect they'd ultimately want you to store your saves on their server. I guess they think that the Xbox2 might persuade more people to get broadband. I've no doubt that even if it didn't ship with a hard drive it'd be an optional extra.
Anyway, as I said I could be wrong. It's all speculative. I have my sources, but feel free to dig this thread up when the specs are released and mock me if my predictions are wrong :)
#11
Roger that, and you should do the same. In the long run, my main hope is that MSFT doesn't screw the pooch and put out a really bad idea or set of ideas.
07/29/2004 (11:18 am)
Quote:Anyway, as I said I could be wrong. It's all speculative. I have my sources, but feel free to dig this thread up when the specs are released and mock me if my predictions are wrong :)
Roger that, and you should do the same. In the long run, my main hope is that MSFT doesn't screw the pooch and put out a really bad idea or set of ideas.
#12
07/29/2004 (11:48 am)
I dont think its the issue of persuading people to get broadband i think its the issue of people actually being able to get it from there phone and cable providers i know alot of people(like me) who would love to get dsl or cable but are just on the boarderline of being to far from the telephones central office
#13
One other thing, MSFT did say that the Xbox 2 will use the DX10 API's that are going into Longhorn, so backwards compatibility with DX8 and DX9 wont be a problem and compatibility with future PC games will already be built in. The only real question is, will they allow PC games to play on the console via purchase of a peripheral keyboard and mouse or will they force game makers to port what they can and forget what they can't?
07/29/2004 (11:52 am)
BTW James, here is an OFFICIAL statement from MSFT that is far newer than any of the rumors you discussed...Quote:
Recent stories in the press about future Xbox products are nothing more than pulp fiction. Microsoft hasn't made any announcements regarding the next generation, so it's far too early to speculate about specifics, including backward compatibility. In fact, this media conjecture is irresponsible. The credibility of any publication willing to compromise fact in favor of a catchy headline must be questioned. Xbox fans are smart enough to distinguish truth from sensational reporting.
One other thing, MSFT did say that the Xbox 2 will use the DX10 API's that are going into Longhorn, so backwards compatibility with DX8 and DX9 wont be a problem and compatibility with future PC games will already be built in. The only real question is, will they allow PC games to play on the console via purchase of a peripheral keyboard and mouse or will they force game makers to port what they can and forget what they can't?
#14
07/29/2004 (12:44 pm)
I would guess the latter. 
#15
There will be no PC games on XBox 2, mark my words.
07/29/2004 (2:18 pm)
How about we say this. If MS puts PC game functionality into the XBox 2, I'll buy everyone on this thread a drink at the next IGC. There is absolutly no way in hell that they would, or would want to have this feature. Firstly the architecture change is huge, emulation is not a viable option. Secondly, Microsoft goes to GREAT lengths to ensure that games which play on the XBox run, and run well. The certification process is lengthy, and goes into greater detail than you can envision. There will be no PC games on XBox 2, mark my words.
Torque Owner Bob
But that would be awsome.