"Stagnated game industry"
by Jonathon Brandemihl · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 07/14/2004 (3:17 pm) · 26 replies
I think not...
Lets see now... Back in the 80's, Apple ][ programmers had less to work with, less of an industry (if at all for PC.) They programmed for themselves, not others. I think back to some of those games, and I still have a vivid remembrance of joy when playing such titles as 'Oddessy,' 'Oregon Trail,' 'Zork.'
I think 2 major factors have not so much 'stagnated' the gaming industry as 'conformed' it:
a) Publish-ability. Who here would not like to make a living off of devel games? When large numbers of people get involved, as well as a publisher's money, isn't it safer to put app/style in a genre that has proven succesful in the industry? ID Software followers have laid a trail of Doom/Quake clone games that narrows a gamers/delelopers, and eventually industies scope.
b) Coding. Now, granted I don't know SQUAT about C++, and just bought my first book today. But, I can see how groups of folks that lean to code a certain way, often end up programming a certain way.
Think about it... When you buy a game how does it go?
1. Dev/publisher splash
2. Title
3. Intro
4. Menu
5. Game
I don't mean just sequence, but don't we all work a off a bit of every thing we have been exposed to? An orignal game is one where we are not re-experiencing what we or others already have.
Jonathon.
Lets see now... Back in the 80's, Apple ][ programmers had less to work with, less of an industry (if at all for PC.) They programmed for themselves, not others. I think back to some of those games, and I still have a vivid remembrance of joy when playing such titles as 'Oddessy,' 'Oregon Trail,' 'Zork.'
I think 2 major factors have not so much 'stagnated' the gaming industry as 'conformed' it:
a) Publish-ability. Who here would not like to make a living off of devel games? When large numbers of people get involved, as well as a publisher's money, isn't it safer to put app/style in a genre that has proven succesful in the industry? ID Software followers have laid a trail of Doom/Quake clone games that narrows a gamers/delelopers, and eventually industies scope.
b) Coding. Now, granted I don't know SQUAT about C++, and just bought my first book today. But, I can see how groups of folks that lean to code a certain way, often end up programming a certain way.
Think about it... When you buy a game how does it go?
1. Dev/publisher splash
2. Title
3. Intro
4. Menu
5. Game
I don't mean just sequence, but don't we all work a off a bit of every thing we have been exposed to? An orignal game is one where we are not re-experiencing what we or others already have.
Jonathon.
About the author
#22
The only thing I find interesting about Doom 3 is its excellent use of bumpmapping. A detailed model can be made in Maya, for example, and then a special program will make a low-poly version and then "renderbump" -- create a texture map based on the detailed geometry to create the illusion of a detailed shape. Heretofor developers and artists have sort of "hand-made" bump maps. No other game today has so effectively used bumpmapping, to my knowledge. Other than that, well, it doesnt look all that interesting to me.
I won't be buying it only cause I dont think I have the hardware to run it (I can barely run FarCry). Otherwise I would. ID software has consistently made quality work, and I appreciate them for that, even if its not totally innovative.
07/18/2004 (5:37 pm)
Quote:Are you one of those that is going to get Doom3 when it comes out? (a game not trying to push the limits of anything, as far as I am concerned)
The only thing I find interesting about Doom 3 is its excellent use of bumpmapping. A detailed model can be made in Maya, for example, and then a special program will make a low-poly version and then "renderbump" -- create a texture map based on the detailed geometry to create the illusion of a detailed shape. Heretofor developers and artists have sort of "hand-made" bump maps. No other game today has so effectively used bumpmapping, to my knowledge. Other than that, well, it doesnt look all that interesting to me.
I won't be buying it only cause I dont think I have the hardware to run it (I can barely run FarCry). Otherwise I would. ID software has consistently made quality work, and I appreciate them for that, even if its not totally innovative.
#23
:
I am developing an FPS because I LOVE the concept. Pure and simple. Understand, I am not a console gamer, and it is rare I find enjoyment in games that do not allow me to interact with other real people (Morrowind being the last single player game I loved).
Now that I've established my point of view, here's my opinion.
Ever since the now venerable Eye of the Beholder and Bard's Tale series I have been fascinated by the ability for a computer to immerse me into a world different from my own that I can interact with.
When you discuss the "problem" with the industry, you have to make caveats. Are you talking about online or offline play?
The Internet adds the ability to interact with that environment AND other people. I think that THIS is the ULTIMATE in content providing. REAL PEOPLE as the content. Look at the success of the Sims series. Granted its the end of the spectrum for interaction, but that set the standard.
The rise of the MMO... PlanetSide, Lineage 2, Worlds of Warcraft, et al... have raised the bar for interactivity. They are the baselines by which all other projects will be compared.
Additionally, you have games like Mechwarrior, Battlefield series and the Tribes series. Once again, FPS, but based on direct head to head competition for a variety of goals. But all the same goals. Capture, Destroy, Hold, or a combiniation of the three. Strike the right combination of graphics, playablity and features and you can create an immortal hit. There are STILL HUNDREDS of Tribes 2 (Classic) players online nightly.
Single player games compete on a different level. They have to cater to a completely different set of gaming elements. Majhong, Orbz, Tetris.... hell... even minesweeper, have a definate sense of their own "identity" and do not stretch beyond it. Simple, engaging, instant gratification. Pretty much anything else is an RPG or RTS. But why? IMHO it's because you are either gonna sit down for hours or you are just looking for a diversion. If you are going to sit down for hours and NOT go online, you are going gravitate towards something that can keep that "around the corner" aspect as long as possible.
If you try to get beyond what you are, you step into the quagmire that has befallen so many titles like "Black and White" or "Demonseed". Is it an RPG? A single player game? An RTS? An online game? Who knows?
Try to be more than what you are and you are doomed to failure. If you want to make money, know your place and stay in it. Until some new innovation opens the way that people interact with computers you've got what you've got.
Personally... I want Smell-o-vision.
07/18/2004 (7:06 pm)
Speaking for the "stupid" people I am developing an FPS because I LOVE the concept. Pure and simple. Understand, I am not a console gamer, and it is rare I find enjoyment in games that do not allow me to interact with other real people (Morrowind being the last single player game I loved).
Now that I've established my point of view, here's my opinion.
Ever since the now venerable Eye of the Beholder and Bard's Tale series I have been fascinated by the ability for a computer to immerse me into a world different from my own that I can interact with.
When you discuss the "problem" with the industry, you have to make caveats. Are you talking about online or offline play?
The Internet adds the ability to interact with that environment AND other people. I think that THIS is the ULTIMATE in content providing. REAL PEOPLE as the content. Look at the success of the Sims series. Granted its the end of the spectrum for interaction, but that set the standard.
The rise of the MMO... PlanetSide, Lineage 2, Worlds of Warcraft, et al... have raised the bar for interactivity. They are the baselines by which all other projects will be compared.
Additionally, you have games like Mechwarrior, Battlefield series and the Tribes series. Once again, FPS, but based on direct head to head competition for a variety of goals. But all the same goals. Capture, Destroy, Hold, or a combiniation of the three. Strike the right combination of graphics, playablity and features and you can create an immortal hit. There are STILL HUNDREDS of Tribes 2 (Classic) players online nightly.
Single player games compete on a different level. They have to cater to a completely different set of gaming elements. Majhong, Orbz, Tetris.... hell... even minesweeper, have a definate sense of their own "identity" and do not stretch beyond it. Simple, engaging, instant gratification. Pretty much anything else is an RPG or RTS. But why? IMHO it's because you are either gonna sit down for hours or you are just looking for a diversion. If you are going to sit down for hours and NOT go online, you are going gravitate towards something that can keep that "around the corner" aspect as long as possible.
If you try to get beyond what you are, you step into the quagmire that has befallen so many titles like "Black and White" or "Demonseed". Is it an RPG? A single player game? An RTS? An online game? Who knows?
Try to be more than what you are and you are doomed to failure. If you want to make money, know your place and stay in it. Until some new innovation opens the way that people interact with computers you've got what you've got.
Personally... I want Smell-o-vision.
#24
I pretty well agree with you Bryce. I like the pure and simple formula of the FPS. Throw in other people (online play) and you have something that I think will never get old or stagnate. But everyone has different tastes, right?
07/18/2004 (11:30 pm)
Mmm... smell-o-vision... they say a persons strongest memory of sensations is smell.I pretty well agree with you Bryce. I like the pure and simple formula of the FPS. Throw in other people (online play) and you have something that I think will never get old or stagnate. But everyone has different tastes, right?
#25
"smell-o-vision" LOL!
That would be a really serious problem once integrated into the more 'explicit' internet industries.. The new leasure suit larry would smell like hot-cakes...err... .'sell' that is ;-)
I will ALWAYS buy the newest and acclaimed FPS games... Why? Stupid? mmm... Perhaps.. Ultima Underworld, at the time, impacted me more than any other game *at the time.* Doom I was just faster and meatier..
Looking Glass tech (now ION Storm) was way ahead of there time. How many here when/if you did play Ultima Underworld even realized it had full dynamic lighting and a physics engine?
That game was my new 'Dragon.' My old dragon was Ultima V. Ultima V taught me more about why I should be a good person and respect others more than my own parents... OUCH! Sorry mom...
FPS games are not my favorite though. Isometrics are. Sacred is my current favorite. I can be imersed into iso games, and not spend too much time wondering 'whats behind me' and more on enjoying the ride. Kind of like companion type interests.... Some guys/gals would like to have two companions. One that is all flash and looks real cool, and that you can't wait to show yer friends. The other you can really expose yourself to, and can spiritually grow with. (I think =-/ )
Some peeps like to read the next series of books envolving the same characters ie starwars. I don't. Years of sequals and re-hashed remakes has only make me loose appreciation of my initial impression of *any* given story/theme.
To see work by developers that IS what they dreamed of making is my inspiration...
Gaming is a two fold deal.. A game is either made for money or love.
07/20/2004 (6:37 pm)
@Will"smell-o-vision" LOL!
That would be a really serious problem once integrated into the more 'explicit' internet industries.. The new leasure suit larry would smell like hot-cakes...err... .'sell' that is ;-)
I will ALWAYS buy the newest and acclaimed FPS games... Why? Stupid? mmm... Perhaps.. Ultima Underworld, at the time, impacted me more than any other game *at the time.* Doom I was just faster and meatier..
Looking Glass tech (now ION Storm) was way ahead of there time. How many here when/if you did play Ultima Underworld even realized it had full dynamic lighting and a physics engine?
That game was my new 'Dragon.' My old dragon was Ultima V. Ultima V taught me more about why I should be a good person and respect others more than my own parents... OUCH! Sorry mom...
FPS games are not my favorite though. Isometrics are. Sacred is my current favorite. I can be imersed into iso games, and not spend too much time wondering 'whats behind me' and more on enjoying the ride. Kind of like companion type interests.... Some guys/gals would like to have two companions. One that is all flash and looks real cool, and that you can't wait to show yer friends. The other you can really expose yourself to, and can spiritually grow with. (I think =-/ )
Some peeps like to read the next series of books envolving the same characters ie starwars. I don't. Years of sequals and re-hashed remakes has only make me loose appreciation of my initial impression of *any* given story/theme.
To see work by developers that IS what they dreamed of making is my inspiration...
Gaming is a two fold deal.. A game is either made for money or love.
#26
Look at all the ex- and current gaming company employees that hang out here. At the very least they can keep their finger on the pulse of new ideas in the gaming industry.
Indie gaming in one form or another has always influenced the commercial game industry. I have always felt that the next big innovation in gaming could very well be buried in some .plan somewhere on this website.
It could be you.. or me... and that is what makes this more than a hobby.
07/21/2004 (12:48 am)
I'll just say this... Indie game development is one of the few hobbies that one can engage in, like rebuilding classic cars, that when your task is complete you might just have something you can make some money on.Look at all the ex- and current gaming company employees that hang out here. At the very least they can keep their finger on the pulse of new ideas in the gaming industry.
Indie gaming in one form or another has always influenced the commercial game industry. I have always felt that the next big innovation in gaming could very well be buried in some .plan somewhere on this website.
It could be you.. or me... and that is what makes this more than a hobby.
Josh Mattila
@Joe: You have good points; I can't say that people who play the same games over and over are stupid. I stepped beyond the line a bit, however, that doesn't change the fact that most people are definitely not intelligent. If you are intelligent, you would know this right off the bat. You will meet a lot more people that are stupid than people who are intelligent. That is why when things are left to the general public, usually the best doesn't result.