Why did they Seperate TNL From TGE?
by James Keir · in Torque Game Engine · 07/06/2004 (7:01 am) · 31 replies
Hey,
I was wondering why they made TNL and not just intergate it with TGE to make it a better product. So does this mean the Network portion in TGE will never be updated and only support 128 players in its stock state?. To me this doesn't make sence. It would make more sence to update TGE then to make a seperate project TNL. If you could clarify this it would be greatly apperciated.
thx,
--qbvbsite
I was wondering why they made TNL and not just intergate it with TGE to make it a better product. So does this mean the Network portion in TGE will never be updated and only support 128 players in its stock state?. To me this doesn't make sence. It would make more sence to update TGE then to make a seperate project TNL. If you could clarify this it would be greatly apperciated.
thx,
--qbvbsite
#22
Can I have your support enthusiastically to integrate TNL to TGE/TSE if I buy TNL license? Or the license included the document how to integrate to TGE/TSE
I have to know it is possible to to integrate TNL to TGE/TSE. If it is ok , I'll pay. Thank you
12/14/2005 (6:40 pm)
One more question.Can I have your support enthusiastically to integrate TNL to TGE/TSE if I buy TNL license? Or the license included the document how to integrate to TGE/TSE
I have to know it is possible to to integrate TNL to TGE/TSE. If it is ok , I'll pay. Thank you
#23
Thank you again. You answer me in another thread. Ok next time I'll start my own thread
12/15/2005 (2:08 am)
@DreamerThank you again. You answer me in another thread. Ok next time I'll start my own thread
#24
I'm sorry for sounding rude by the way, but I come here to try and help and sometimes I get frustrated when I see multiple threads all going on at once, that really belong in the same thread.
It's mostly because it slows down my response rates to the relevant questions or requires me to repeat myself (should I choose to answer), and believe me I am here to help, not to be a jerk.
The more appropriate response in this case would be to politely point you back to your other thread and provide a link, so the next persion who comes to this thread can see it and follow along.
Anyways my apologies.
12/15/2005 (3:08 am)
@Vu you did start another thread ;)I'm sorry for sounding rude by the way, but I come here to try and help and sometimes I get frustrated when I see multiple threads all going on at once, that really belong in the same thread.
It's mostly because it slows down my response rates to the relevant questions or requires me to repeat myself (should I choose to answer), and believe me I am here to help, not to be a jerk.
The more appropriate response in this case would be to politely point you back to your other thread and provide a link, so the next persion who comes to this thread can see it and follow along.
Anyways my apologies.
#25
Thanks for you help in advance!
--Kevin
09/05/2006 (9:31 pm)
What would be the best path to take to get TNL performance in a TGB game? I was looking at buying Indie licenses for both TGB and TGE (separate projects). TGE has the networking code, but I was looking to make a networkable 2D game (non-turn based, more realtime). Would it be possible to merge them without violating any of the licensing agreements? Can a game created in TGB be recompiled using TGE and then take advantage of the TNL built-in?Thanks for you help in advance!
--Kevin
#26
So, if you need more networking capabilities than TGB supplies you, the 'best' path would be to integrate OpenTNL into TGB. Now, I have no idea how difficult this would be, as I have never seen or worked with the TGB code. Assuming it is doable, this is your best bet.
In regards to the licensing issues, if you chose to use TGB + OpenTNL, it gets a little icky. You would probably need to purchase the OpenTNL indie license. Just using TNL for free, it is released under the GPL. Since the GPL is a 'viral' license, you would be required to release all of your code - but the TGB indie license forbids this. It may be possible to separate your networking code into a single library (released under GPL) and your main game (w/ TGB) does not need to be released. I am not 100% sure on this, so maybe someone else with more licensing experience can chime in.
Hope that is of some help.
09/06/2006 (8:04 am)
I have not used TGB (I assume you are talking about TGB-Pro, as basic TGB includes no source code), but I have used both TGE and TNL. Separating the networking code from TGE is not something I would recommend. It is tightly integrated into TGE, and doing this would take a lot of time. In actuality, it has already been done for you with OpenTNL.So, if you need more networking capabilities than TGB supplies you, the 'best' path would be to integrate OpenTNL into TGB. Now, I have no idea how difficult this would be, as I have never seen or worked with the TGB code. Assuming it is doable, this is your best bet.
In regards to the licensing issues, if you chose to use TGB + OpenTNL, it gets a little icky. You would probably need to purchase the OpenTNL indie license. Just using TNL for free, it is released under the GPL. Since the GPL is a 'viral' license, you would be required to release all of your code - but the TGB indie license forbids this. It may be possible to separate your networking code into a single library (released under GPL) and your main game (w/ TGB) does not need to be released. I am not 100% sure on this, so maybe someone else with more licensing experience can chime in.
Hope that is of some help.
#27
But rather than heading down that road, I would recommend checking out the existing network functionality in TGB to see whether it works for your game. Turn-based and real-time are not the best descriptions for the networking model in TGB, but they are the ones which people are familiar with. Unfortunately, they often relate these to gameplay nechanics which may or may not be dependent on the underlying networking scheme.
If you find the current networking scheme too limiting for your gametype while prototyping, pick up a TGE license and use Tom Bampton's resource to implement TGE-style ghosting in TGB. If your requirements are higher than that, you should look seriously at your networking algorithms and implementation specifics of necessary information that can be split between the client and server to see which things can move either direction to optimize performance (and actually, this should be done in the TGB step as well).
09/06/2006 (8:16 am)
Actually, you cannot dynamically or statically link under the GPL without a source release. The LGPL allows dynamic linking. To integrate TNL into TGB would require an indie license of TNL and a Pro license of TGB. But rather than heading down that road, I would recommend checking out the existing network functionality in TGB to see whether it works for your game. Turn-based and real-time are not the best descriptions for the networking model in TGB, but they are the ones which people are familiar with. Unfortunately, they often relate these to gameplay nechanics which may or may not be dependent on the underlying networking scheme.
If you find the current networking scheme too limiting for your gametype while prototyping, pick up a TGE license and use Tom Bampton's resource to implement TGE-style ghosting in TGB. If your requirements are higher than that, you should look seriously at your networking algorithms and implementation specifics of necessary information that can be split between the client and server to see which things can move either direction to optimize performance (and actually, this should be done in the TGB step as well).
#28
I wonder if GG will have a different price point for owners of TGE or TGB for the TorqueX?
--Kevin
09/06/2006 (10:32 am)
Thanks for the advice! The network model I'm thinking of is more in the lines of Diablo or Gauntlet for the 360 (players on multiple consoles). I read a few other forums and learned a bit more about the Lite version. I sounds like it would be possible, maybe some light C++ coding. I'm getting the Pro version (gotta see whats under the hood!).I wonder if GG will have a different price point for owners of TGE or TGB for the TorqueX?
--Kevin
#29
09/06/2006 (11:26 am)
There were different price-points before the official release of TGB, but those went away with the release. I have no idea if there will be an EA release price-point for existing TGE/TGB/TSE owners.
#31
10/23/2007 (11:28 pm)
This thread is pretty illuminating when it comes to TNL vs "TorqueNet" in TGE.. You guys should update the website(s). It's really not clear on the website what the difference is, if any, between TNL and the network stack that comes as part of TGE, and the price difference just makes it all the more confusing. :-)
Torque Owner Joel Reymont