Best layout for creating a website

#1 I personally don't like flash intros, flash menus, or frames.

#2 Same for me.

#3 *Also votes for "none of the above".*

#4 Cool, no flash and no frames... thank for your opinions
G

#5 I'll throw my opinion in too... I don't ever do flash on a website because I feel it alienates some of your visitors. I think frames are a bit tacky (there are exceptions to this one).

#6 If you are doing a site to show off art and design, a flash interface might not be bad. Certainly not necessary, but if game interface design is something you focus on - a flash interface on your site wouldn't be a bad idea.

If flash is not something that you've worked with a lot, I'd say to forgo the flash interface/intro, though, and just try to make a clean HTML/CSS interface.

#7 As for the type, I'm in the process of designing it with DNN Dot Net Nuke), which is not a plug but a statement. This way I have an easy way to administer the site, but can customize a skin to fit what I want.

My 2 cents....

#8 I vote against flash intros, but I'm not opposed to "tasteful" flash menus. As long as you don't have to watch a button do cartwheels every time you click something, it's not too bad, just don't make the menus annoying.

My 1 cent(low on funds)...

#9 Here are some neat, but extremely excessive flash interfaces... its just like computers in the movies! If only it didn't take forever to navigate....

http://www.2advanced.com/flashindex.htm
http://www.2advanced.com/archive/v3/flashindex.htm
http://www.2advanced.com/archive/v2/flashindex.htm


Something like this would be great for a portfolio, where people are only going to go through it once or twice to see artwork, but terrible for a site like GG where people just want to get info, not watch 5-10 second transitions with every click.

#10 I like flash webs. It gives the website a more professional look and feel (For the most part). Intros are alright too, as long as you can skip them.

Frames can be good, it just depends.

However, I completely agree with Alex Swanson!

#11 Flash done well and professional is gorgeous and inspiring... done cheap, mediocre, and ugly (as well as done with files far too big) then it becomes the biggest turnoff of a site...

Those flash pages are very very nice Alex... stuff like that gets my attention, shows they're serious, gives me a much better impression than a basic DHTML site.

Also flash done as part of a site is great... its like a beautiful boque of flowers, you use it to accent a design not flood it with it.

#12 I'm against flash and pointless javascript. I'm not saying that javascript is pointless but a lot of people use it for no good reason.

I guess it's because I can't use those things at work and thats where a good deal of my surfing time comes from

Oh, and if you work with me, um... my name is really John Smith

Edit: When I say work with me I mean work with the guy who's name is on the post. Cause I'm John Smith

#13 I hate flash because its overused and wastes valuable bandwidth. However it doesn't have to be that way, and flash can be very nice for simple rollover button menu's with nice clean graphics keeping the table clutter down.

HTML is a pain, tables too, If more people used flash to keep things tidy and clean looking and cut out the sounds and fancy animation I think it would do a lot to improve the quality of wbsites and give them a more flexible designed look than most currently do.

Kill intro's they suck

anything that you can't load quickly on a 56k dialup should be chucked out, except gameplay movies :) if you have them.

#14 Forced flash interfaces are a really good way to drive me away from a site.

Regardless of how well built the site may be, the more needless fluff a site makes me wade through to get what I want out of it, the less likely I am to ever return to it if I can keep from it.

A good example would be that first link Alex provided - HOW long do you wait before you reach anything of consequence? No thanks.

#15 I think the biggest problem with pure Flash interfaces (as opposed to embedded ones used to spruce up a site's navigation) is the fact that standard navigation tools don't work properly within them. The number of times I've gone through a Flash site, navigated my way through numerous submenus, and then hit "Back" on my mouse or keyboard and gotten dumped into the intro page (or previous page I'd been browsing), is just annoying.

People expect to be able to use their navigation shortcuts when browsing, and pure Flash interfaces do not abide by these expectations.

#16 Just out of interest, when I started doing the leadfoot web page, was the first time I used tables and it was infuriating having all those gifs and the tables scaling all over the place.

I made a flash version of the main menu bar that I thought I'd just stick in a single table cell. It's really simple and basicaly ended up being done without flash, but flash would have been much cleaner and less cluttered and more easier to manage.

here's the old experimental flash menu bar:

s93153354.onlinehome.us/leadfoot128.swf

and here's what I settled with using many cut up GIF pieces in a table

www.leadfootproductions.com/

(I think the swf points to the actual page links too)

I didn't use flash because I'm not confident everyone has it installed. What do you guys think, would using the flash to simplify creating my web page with this simple flash bar for the sake of convenience and cutting out clutter have been acceptable for you?

This is probably about the limit of what I woudl have had on my page, as I generaly don't like flash at all, so I thought I'd ask what people thought since the subjects just come up :)

#17 Flash sites have their place. They can deeply impress non-geeks... e.g. investors. They do a better job at conveying non-tangible aspects of design... look and feel, and can create whatever mood you choose.... if you do it well.

On the other hand, flash will be avoided like a plague by the tech-savvy who don't appreciate having their micro-seconds wasted while the animations run. Especially when it comes to things like 2advanced which look pretty but take ages to navigate.

Why not have a non-flash website, AND a full flash website, driven of data content from a backend database? A little more work, but satisfy both parties.

For the record, my favorite flash website - www.pushhere.com/

#18 I never go into a flash site if a HTML equivallent is advailble. The "flashiness" of Flash has worn off for me. I prefer solid HTML and CSS coding, with tastful javascripts for animations. The iframe is a good choice if you hate normal frame site.

#19 Adrian, the destination indicator on that flash navbar you linked can be accomplised by using a javascript function in good ole' HTML.

Don't get me wrong, Flash has it's place, but it's place shouldn't be everyplace IMHO. =\

#20 On my primary computer, I usually either don't have Flash installed or have it blocked with Firefox's Flashblock extension. Just as a datapoint.

Also, personally, I despise Flash navigation because it prevents me from opening links in new tabs. If I can't open your links in tabs, I'm probably not going to venture beyond the first page I see.

And for those of you who see in Flash cleaner code and cleaner presentation, some CSS resources might be of interest:

CSS Sprites
Revised Image Replacement
Other neat things

That location indication can be accomplished with pure (X)HTML/CSS.