Mmorpg Graveyard
by Prairie Games · in General Discussion · 06/21/2004 (1:40 pm) · 137 replies
Bring out yer dead...
Warhammer Online, Dead
Mythica, Dead
Ultima X Odyssey, Dead
Dragon Empires, Dead
Horizons, soon to be Dead
-Josh
Warhammer Online, Dead
Mythica, Dead
Ultima X Odyssey, Dead
Dragon Empires, Dead
Horizons, soon to be Dead
-Josh
#102
Carry on...
07/07/2004 (6:40 am)
$20 for unlimited access? I pay $9.95! :) For $26.95 I'd be on DSL.Carry on...
#103
07/07/2004 (6:58 am)
Quote:Not for nothing, but there's a reason why almost all ISP's made us pay per minute in the begining of all this internet madness. It's only after years and years of building up their infrastructures that they can say $20 for unlimited access.I thought it was more due to the fact that customers HATED it. Nobody likes being on a timer.
#104
And I'm not saying that your regular monthly rate, if you choose to do that, should be any given number. But you can bring in a little more from people who want to use a character 16+ hours a day rather than the majority of users who play less than half that. You can limit it by day, week, or month, however you like, but what I'm saying is that it's an option, and a valid one, like those gaming phone-card deals.
07/07/2004 (8:08 am)
Hate it all they want, I don't believe for a minute that AOL was in a position in the begining to offer unlimited service for cheap. The bandwidth costs would have either forced the price up or crushed them. Neither are MMO service providers. That's where a nice chunk of their profits go to. Other MMO's(there's an Asian one, forget the name and country) have been known to charge an extra dollar a month for every extra character you store on their server.And I'm not saying that your regular monthly rate, if you choose to do that, should be any given number. But you can bring in a little more from people who want to use a character 16+ hours a day rather than the majority of users who play less than half that. You can limit it by day, week, or month, however you like, but what I'm saying is that it's an option, and a valid one, like those gaming phone-card deals.
#105
One of the biggest concerns...
Solution - This is a touchy subject only because it reflects upon the creative element I am about to expose. If it's one thing that seperates immersion from the player, it's attention to role-playing and the representation behind it. Many players desire the 'connection' to the role itself rather than their own desires***.
With this, a very simple solution came to mind, and though it's implementation will indeed be more complex, it will make all the difference for those who've been wanting to experience the story that they and their character compose together. For this, we have a combination of CharacterAI and a system to represent Simulated Emotional Response.
In other words, the PC characters will in fact have a mind of their own, and with that, customizable pre-programmed responses and mood fluctuations. Many things, from combat to social interaction, will involve pre-evaluated response, in one form or another. The AI, which is partialy decided upon at the time of character creation and later during advancements, will be under the constant effects of the mood that the character itself is in. Mood will effect everything from crafting (such as frustration when you're aiming for a specific item) to trade (bargains versus overpriced deals) to combat (avenging a friend's death; fear; etc.) to just about every possible action (would you climb a tree if you were unsure of your ability to climb and a fear of heights? Neither would your character unless he felt sure of himself). Moods can vary from temporary and slight to long term and severe, and they can have the same range of impact on whatever you do.
*** There will always be players who want to just jump in and play, ignoring the role-playing part, and just have fun hacking away at enemies. For them, the option to just be a chaotic individual (Chaotic role-playing), as well as the option to discern themselves from the Roleplaying players will be available. This will be automatically evident to all (Non-RP), and as such, allows for Role-players who would be concerned the ability to ignore such individuals if they so choose.
-----------------------------
Continued...
07/08/2004 (3:10 pm)
Part II...One of the biggest concerns...
Quote:If someone could figure out a way to set up a system that rewarded RolePlaying (and wasn't prone to abuse by malicious player types) they'd find a nice chunk of the market tripping over themselves to play their game.
Solution - This is a touchy subject only because it reflects upon the creative element I am about to expose. If it's one thing that seperates immersion from the player, it's attention to role-playing and the representation behind it. Many players desire the 'connection' to the role itself rather than their own desires***.
With this, a very simple solution came to mind, and though it's implementation will indeed be more complex, it will make all the difference for those who've been wanting to experience the story that they and their character compose together. For this, we have a combination of CharacterAI and a system to represent Simulated Emotional Response.
In other words, the PC characters will in fact have a mind of their own, and with that, customizable pre-programmed responses and mood fluctuations. Many things, from combat to social interaction, will involve pre-evaluated response, in one form or another. The AI, which is partialy decided upon at the time of character creation and later during advancements, will be under the constant effects of the mood that the character itself is in. Mood will effect everything from crafting (such as frustration when you're aiming for a specific item) to trade (bargains versus overpriced deals) to combat (avenging a friend's death; fear; etc.) to just about every possible action (would you climb a tree if you were unsure of your ability to climb and a fear of heights? Neither would your character unless he felt sure of himself). Moods can vary from temporary and slight to long term and severe, and they can have the same range of impact on whatever you do.
*** There will always be players who want to just jump in and play, ignoring the role-playing part, and just have fun hacking away at enemies. For them, the option to just be a chaotic individual (Chaotic role-playing), as well as the option to discern themselves from the Roleplaying players will be available. This will be automatically evident to all (Non-RP), and as such, allows for Role-players who would be concerned the ability to ignore such individuals if they so choose.
-----------------------------
Continued...
#106
Solution - EXPERIENCE IS NOT A NUMBER, BUT WHAT HAS BEEN LEARNED, TRAINED, STUDIED, AND MODIFIED Step one involves learning the skill you wish to succeed in. Step two is practicing that skill a few times to understand it's effects. Step three is studying those effects and what exactly causes the desired effect. Step four is refining those studies to create the most desired effect and possibly applying that effect with another to learn newer skills.
Most RPGs are based off the original numerical XP building done in most D&D Style games. This system was designed as a way to value learning as a number for simplicity, nothing more, and why it's still used in games in place of much more creative options is downright annoying! But then again, you never really see the option to try something in a game, so trying something must not be in the vocabulary of many developers...
Attempting Skills - If you have the tools and the resources, as well as the knowledge and power to attempt a skill, then it should be an option to 'Try' the skill. This is one of the very few cases in which XP is pooled numericaly, but only towards the present learning/attempting of the skill in order to preserve what has been attempted in trying to learn. This is also in effect mainly for general skill building as opposed to learning advanced skills which require more creative effort. Once something has been learned, you advance to Level 1 in that skill and all XP is tossed out the window (numerically). The XP is only used to increase the chance of figuring out what you have to do right to perform the skill effectively.
Learning Skills - There's also the option to learn skills from others. Learning directly, either by recent studies or learning from someone who knows what they're doing, is an advantage and grants a much higher xp amount, and is one of the only ways to learn advanced skills.
Beyond Level 1 - Level 1 is always the raw skill itself, just being able to perform and knowing how to do it. Level 2 and beyond is all about learning what else you can do with that skill and refining and adapting to using it more efficiently. The individual is also the main factor in the skill as well and they will learn what they understand better than what is oblivious to them. In other words, take a fighter who's also a blacksmith - his main attribute that is applied to both skills would be strength.
Therefore, the attempts they take at refining and learning more about a skill will focus more on strength-wise learning over anything else. Thus, each skill itself is broken into smaller fractions of learning, hidden in the background, that build up as the skill is used. When one of these fractions are learned, you advance a level and actually learn something that allows you to use the skill more effectively. Our Blacksmith for example, could learn that hitting the metal in a certain way makes it easier to fold the metal, creating a stronger blade.
All in all, the extreme hiking is abolished and replaced with a more accurate measure of accomplishing goals through learning.
---------------------------
My response to the 'Costs' of running the game -
CLD Studios
And if that's not enough, think about this - Torque :)
- Christopher "Ronixus" Dapo
07/08/2004 (3:10 pm)
Part IIIQuote:...(insert xp farming/treadmilling concerns here)...
Solution - EXPERIENCE IS NOT A NUMBER, BUT WHAT HAS BEEN LEARNED, TRAINED, STUDIED, AND MODIFIED Step one involves learning the skill you wish to succeed in. Step two is practicing that skill a few times to understand it's effects. Step three is studying those effects and what exactly causes the desired effect. Step four is refining those studies to create the most desired effect and possibly applying that effect with another to learn newer skills.
Most RPGs are based off the original numerical XP building done in most D&D Style games. This system was designed as a way to value learning as a number for simplicity, nothing more, and why it's still used in games in place of much more creative options is downright annoying! But then again, you never really see the option to try something in a game, so trying something must not be in the vocabulary of many developers...
Attempting Skills - If you have the tools and the resources, as well as the knowledge and power to attempt a skill, then it should be an option to 'Try' the skill. This is one of the very few cases in which XP is pooled numericaly, but only towards the present learning/attempting of the skill in order to preserve what has been attempted in trying to learn. This is also in effect mainly for general skill building as opposed to learning advanced skills which require more creative effort. Once something has been learned, you advance to Level 1 in that skill and all XP is tossed out the window (numerically). The XP is only used to increase the chance of figuring out what you have to do right to perform the skill effectively.
Learning Skills - There's also the option to learn skills from others. Learning directly, either by recent studies or learning from someone who knows what they're doing, is an advantage and grants a much higher xp amount, and is one of the only ways to learn advanced skills.
Beyond Level 1 - Level 1 is always the raw skill itself, just being able to perform and knowing how to do it. Level 2 and beyond is all about learning what else you can do with that skill and refining and adapting to using it more efficiently. The individual is also the main factor in the skill as well and they will learn what they understand better than what is oblivious to them. In other words, take a fighter who's also a blacksmith - his main attribute that is applied to both skills would be strength.
Therefore, the attempts they take at refining and learning more about a skill will focus more on strength-wise learning over anything else. Thus, each skill itself is broken into smaller fractions of learning, hidden in the background, that build up as the skill is used. When one of these fractions are learned, you advance a level and actually learn something that allows you to use the skill more effectively. Our Blacksmith for example, could learn that hitting the metal in a certain way makes it easier to fold the metal, creating a stronger blade.
All in all, the extreme hiking is abolished and replaced with a more accurate measure of accomplishing goals through learning.
---------------------------
My response to the 'Costs' of running the game -
CLD Studios
And if that's not enough, think about this - Torque :)
- Christopher "Ronixus" Dapo
#107
Worth it? If pulled off correctly, yes.
07/08/2004 (3:33 pm)
Chris, you're not the only one working on that AI system, and I gotta say it's going to require a few more servers to make the network run the same amount of bots...Worth it? If pulled off correctly, yes.
#108
So to answer 'costs', the most important question which you need to answer, you direct us to your website???
And furthermore, TGE only lowers the cost of purchasing a 3D engine. The costs for hosting your servers and employing reps to watch over the 'karma' system are going to chew up a lot more cash than TGE ever will.
07/08/2004 (6:36 pm)
Quote:
My response to the 'Costs' of running the game -
CLD Studios
And if that's not enough, think about this - Torque :)
So to answer 'costs', the most important question which you need to answer, you direct us to your website???
And furthermore, TGE only lowers the cost of purchasing a 3D engine. The costs for hosting your servers and employing reps to watch over the 'karma' system are going to chew up a lot more cash than TGE ever will.
#109
07/08/2004 (9:09 pm)
So give away a few hours a month, and make them pay for extra. Very few 12 year olds can afford a $300 videogame bill...in one month. So, it should take care of the l337 4ax0r5. 
#110
I don't know how physically fit you guys are, but I don't think I could go around swinging a claymore or great axe for hours on end. I think I would get too exhausted and need to rest for a couple hours. Might be able to do some menial things, like sell loot, see what's for sale, try crafting items or something less physically demanding for a while...
might be another way to limit the "mad xp", you can do a quest, or hunt for a while, but your character will need to rest for a few hours afterwards, in addition to the normal resting up you'd need after fighting something to regain your strength/stamina or whatever you plan on calling it...
Maybe mages can get headaches from too much spell casting :D
07/08/2004 (10:52 pm)
Another thing comes to mind about playing hours on end...I don't know how physically fit you guys are, but I don't think I could go around swinging a claymore or great axe for hours on end. I think I would get too exhausted and need to rest for a couple hours. Might be able to do some menial things, like sell loot, see what's for sale, try crafting items or something less physically demanding for a while...
might be another way to limit the "mad xp", you can do a quest, or hunt for a while, but your character will need to rest for a few hours afterwards, in addition to the normal resting up you'd need after fighting something to regain your strength/stamina or whatever you plan on calling it...
Maybe mages can get headaches from too much spell casting :D
#111
I have people gnawing at my legs to see my work come to life, and they've all looked up to me to tell me they would devote their lives to such a cause. As for the 'employed reps' for the game, it's simply a matter of assigning the task to those willing to take it, and with a game such as this, how many do think will want the job?
Besides, don't worry your little head, even if I began further work on this project now, without any other support it would be at least 3 years before it was even completed (and by then, servers would probably be cheap enough that anyone could run one).
In closing - piss off! Go on, I needn't be harrased by bigotry while expressing my ideas in this psychotic world of ours...
:)
07/09/2004 (8:57 am)
@Paul - No, instead it would seem money would be the most important thing to you. I take it you failed to see the message on the site, nor could you probably understand it if you had. But since you, and probably many others, fail to grasp the concept, I'll spell it out for you. The overall goal is to slowly enact the greatest civilization advance the world will know of, greater than that which underlays our current and expands upon it in so many ways that even those like you will benifit and love it.I have people gnawing at my legs to see my work come to life, and they've all looked up to me to tell me they would devote their lives to such a cause. As for the 'employed reps' for the game, it's simply a matter of assigning the task to those willing to take it, and with a game such as this, how many do think will want the job?
Besides, don't worry your little head, even if I began further work on this project now, without any other support it would be at least 3 years before it was even completed (and by then, servers would probably be cheap enough that anyone could run one).
In closing - piss off! Go on, I needn't be harrased by bigotry while expressing my ideas in this psychotic world of ours...
:)
#112
07/09/2004 (8:59 am)
@All - Apologies, must have been one of them damn mage headaches again...
#113
1) You haven't said anything that is so revolutionary that it will change the world. The kind of AI you're talking about, and the kind needed are years and years and years apart.
2) With such pie in the sky statements about the game, not many people will want the job. Sorry to say, and I'm sure your hearts in the right place, but people who know what they're doing tend to stay away from MMO's, and PW's(first hand knowledge talking, and I've got more than just a 2-page website to back up my talk).
3) Servers are able to be run by anyone now. The average PDA has more horsepower than servers did in the early nineties, one-for-one. My project is throwing together pc's and planning to offload AI to the GPU(s) for servers, and you're talking $2k a piece still. The point Paul was trying to make was that the amount of power you'll need, and the bandwidth to throw that much data around, will require a lot of money.
And finally, don't tell Paul to piss off just because you decided to put your opinion out on a forum. If you don't like your ideas being challenged, then don't air them to others. I understand you might be put off more than a little by people telling you these things, but there's two things you should realize: 1) We're not lying to you, and 2) Take the criticism, and if your plan survives it by way of debate and information, rather than defensiveness, then you know you have a real, solid plan.
07/09/2004 (4:51 pm)
There's a few points I'm compelled to make here, though I don't want you to think I'm flaming you:1) You haven't said anything that is so revolutionary that it will change the world. The kind of AI you're talking about, and the kind needed are years and years and years apart.
2) With such pie in the sky statements about the game, not many people will want the job. Sorry to say, and I'm sure your hearts in the right place, but people who know what they're doing tend to stay away from MMO's, and PW's(first hand knowledge talking, and I've got more than just a 2-page website to back up my talk).
3) Servers are able to be run by anyone now. The average PDA has more horsepower than servers did in the early nineties, one-for-one. My project is throwing together pc's and planning to offload AI to the GPU(s) for servers, and you're talking $2k a piece still. The point Paul was trying to make was that the amount of power you'll need, and the bandwidth to throw that much data around, will require a lot of money.
And finally, don't tell Paul to piss off just because you decided to put your opinion out on a forum. If you don't like your ideas being challenged, then don't air them to others. I understand you might be put off more than a little by people telling you these things, but there's two things you should realize: 1) We're not lying to you, and 2) Take the criticism, and if your plan survives it by way of debate and information, rather than defensiveness, then you know you have a real, solid plan.
#114
07/09/2004 (6:09 pm)
..... 
#115
07/09/2004 (7:44 pm)
Josh, making an MMORPG ain't easy and everyone knows that by now :) It has been brought up sooo many times before. A search on the forums yield alot of topics on this exact subject.
#116
07/10/2004 (6:27 am)
.....
#117
AE (Artificial Emotion), running alongside very good AI is nothing revolutionary?
Oh well, at least I don't really care much about being so revolutionary with my games, just making sure they immerse the players within their fun factor! :)
You'll have to excuse me when I post, I'm a rather deranged individual so, so is my humor ;)
I was registering the fact that Paul had responded twice about funding to me and, the fact that if the game is indeed as good as we hope to make it, that it shouldn't be tough to get the support it requires nor the funding for that support. For the most part, there will be alot of planning on the automated side of things and support reps will most likely be those who are working towards the second age of the game (which comes about when one individual completes the world quest).
Never am I insinuating that:
1) It will be easy
2) It will come cheap
3) It will come soon
4) It will ever come (I could die any time ;)
But I will insinuate that if done to my specifications that it will be the best damn OnlineRPG that people will ever play for a while, especially since it's major design implementations, which have been on paper since before I even knew such games were possible, are still more advanced than anything the market can offer to this day.
And this is not my opinion, but those who've told me theirs' after viewing and listening to my designs. Granted, these designs aren't even completed, but that's just because I wish to allow developers who work with me on these the chance to provide their own input on the meat of the game. :)
As for the dispute about horsepower and data, most of the processing will be done client-side. This, along with the fact that most of the data will be derivitive (meaning simplified then advanced upon as opposed to the other way around), and that servers will be used more specifically for multi-processing individual data structures (IE - one for combat processes, one for AI automation processes, etc., as well as for verifications) and for world persistancy, means once they're set up, the worst that would be a concern is adding more support for more content or a constantly growing player base. And that's one that we would all be happy with! :)
All in all, thanks for the low blow Ted (2-page website) and your thoughtful opinions and criticism.
- Christopher "Ronixus" Dapo
07/10/2004 (10:15 am)
Sooooo....AE (Artificial Emotion), running alongside very good AI is nothing revolutionary?
Oh well, at least I don't really care much about being so revolutionary with my games, just making sure they immerse the players within their fun factor! :)
You'll have to excuse me when I post, I'm a rather deranged individual so, so is my humor ;)
I was registering the fact that Paul had responded twice about funding to me and, the fact that if the game is indeed as good as we hope to make it, that it shouldn't be tough to get the support it requires nor the funding for that support. For the most part, there will be alot of planning on the automated side of things and support reps will most likely be those who are working towards the second age of the game (which comes about when one individual completes the world quest).
Never am I insinuating that:
1) It will be easy
2) It will come cheap
3) It will come soon
4) It will ever come (I could die any time ;)
But I will insinuate that if done to my specifications that it will be the best damn OnlineRPG that people will ever play for a while, especially since it's major design implementations, which have been on paper since before I even knew such games were possible, are still more advanced than anything the market can offer to this day.
And this is not my opinion, but those who've told me theirs' after viewing and listening to my designs. Granted, these designs aren't even completed, but that's just because I wish to allow developers who work with me on these the chance to provide their own input on the meat of the game. :)
As for the dispute about horsepower and data, most of the processing will be done client-side. This, along with the fact that most of the data will be derivitive (meaning simplified then advanced upon as opposed to the other way around), and that servers will be used more specifically for multi-processing individual data structures (IE - one for combat processes, one for AI automation processes, etc., as well as for verifications) and for world persistancy, means once they're set up, the worst that would be a concern is adding more support for more content or a constantly growing player base. And that's one that we would all be happy with! :)
All in all, thanks for the low blow Ted (2-page website) and your thoughtful opinions and criticism.
- Christopher "Ronixus" Dapo
#118
And AE/AI combinations are niether revolutionary, or even new. Implementations might be, but all in all it's a part of the AI field that's older than either one of us. When I started reading more into AI, I started seeing just how much research had gone into it.
Running anything that touches gameplay related data will open you to hacks, and the general rule of thumb is that the client is not to be trusted. People will hack your client just to do it(hackers are petty like that). And your worst concerns shouldn't be scaling for the masses that will flock to your game, but guarding against hacks, billing fraud, server/cluster crashes, scaling problems, infrastructure changes being needed, fixes/patches, network outages, etc. If you aren't placing those problems at the top of your worry-list, then those problems will only be magnified when they appear.
07/10/2004 (6:25 pm)
@Chris: First off, it isn't a low blow, it's honesty. A 2-page website doesn't say much to people who are looking for information on what you want to do-especially since you posted your site as the answer to funding(or in that context). I used to have the same problem, as my game website was listed under my main website, but to try and help that problem, I bought a seperate domain, and asked a very good web developer I knew to do it up, since I'm not so good at web design(which is a big reason why I have that simple gradient with two frames on my main site). And AE/AI combinations are niether revolutionary, or even new. Implementations might be, but all in all it's a part of the AI field that's older than either one of us. When I started reading more into AI, I started seeing just how much research had gone into it.
Quote:As for the dispute about horsepower and data, most of the processing will be done client-side. This, along with the fact that most of the data will be derivitive (meaning simplified then advanced upon as opposed to the other way around), and that servers will be used more specifically for multi-processing individual data structures (IE - one for combat processes, one for AI automation processes, etc., as well as for verifications) and for world persistancy, means once they're set up, the worst that would be a concern is adding more support for more content or a constantly growing player base. And that's one that we would all be happy with! :)
Running anything that touches gameplay related data will open you to hacks, and the general rule of thumb is that the client is not to be trusted. People will hack your client just to do it(hackers are petty like that). And your worst concerns shouldn't be scaling for the masses that will flock to your game, but guarding against hacks, billing fraud, server/cluster crashes, scaling problems, infrastructure changes being needed, fixes/patches, network outages, etc. If you aren't placing those problems at the top of your worry-list, then those problems will only be magnified when they appear.
#119
Running anything that touches gameplay related data will open you to hacks, and the general rule of thumb is that the client is not to be trusted. People will hack your client just to do it(hackers are petty like that). And your worst concerns shouldn't be scaling for the masses that will flock to your game, but guarding against hacks, billing fraud, server/cluster crashes, scaling problems, infrastructure changes being needed, fixes/patches, network outages, etc. If you aren't placing those problems at the top of your worry-list, then those problems will only be magnified when they appear.
==================================================================================================
The points that I've quoted are indeed valid concerns, but there are services that deal with the concerns you mention. They are, however, expensive (http://www.rackspace.com/index.php for example starting at $300.00 a month, this is just one place I found). Which validates another concern about not being able to run an MMORPG for free. If you're going to run an MMORPG, don't screw around, get a business loan and hire professionals who specialize in these areas. We're developers, not network administrators, we're not financial institutions that handle online transactions. Ok, maybe some of you know how to do all that, but then where are you going to find time to develop your game? You're going to need time to develop new things to add to your MMORPG every month, or people will get bored with it. It needs to be tested before it goes live, how are you going to do that if you're monitoring the game servers for hacking activity, monitoring the billing system etc.
If you can't get a loan, try making an FPS game first and use revenues from that to finance a MMORPG game. You are not going to be able to run a decent MMORPG without a lot of money to finance it. You literally need an array of servers, dependable high performance machines. They do not need to render graphics like the client does so when I refer to high performance it is not in reference to video output. Having a reputable company host the game and paying them for the service is very expensive, but is the cheaper alternative to renting a building with enough space for the "array of servers", having enough employees for the aforementioned tasks (billing, server admins, network security, etc).
Most of these companies in the business of hosting services also have climate control to keep the machines at optimal operating temperatures and humidity. Between that and running all the servers, just think of what the electric bill would be. They also have an emergency power generator to guarantee that their service is uninterruptable.
Can you run multiple servers on one machine? Sure you can, I wouldn't. Can one machine handle 500 people at once? That depends on how willing you are to let your customers get so fed up with server lag that they cancel their accounts. People like smooth gameplay, a jittery game is annoying. So, you're going to need quite a few machines to run each "mission map" that is part of the world you create. Hence the term I used, "array of servers". And the means by which the players move from one area (mission server) to another has to be seemless.
Prior to the game going live I'd hire somebody who specializes in software security to examine the code for any possible loopholes. Even then it won't be 100% hack-proof. But they can catch more potential problems than you or I could. Then again, maybe you are sharp that way, and the more time you spend on plugging up loopholes the further the release date is for your game...
Now, if I'm wrong about any of this, please let me know exactly what and why. Because I wouldn't want to invest a lot of time and money and THEN find out I was going about it the wrong way. :)
07/10/2004 (9:28 pm)
==================================================================================================Running anything that touches gameplay related data will open you to hacks, and the general rule of thumb is that the client is not to be trusted. People will hack your client just to do it(hackers are petty like that). And your worst concerns shouldn't be scaling for the masses that will flock to your game, but guarding against hacks, billing fraud, server/cluster crashes, scaling problems, infrastructure changes being needed, fixes/patches, network outages, etc. If you aren't placing those problems at the top of your worry-list, then those problems will only be magnified when they appear.
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The points that I've quoted are indeed valid concerns, but there are services that deal with the concerns you mention. They are, however, expensive (http://www.rackspace.com/index.php for example starting at $300.00 a month, this is just one place I found). Which validates another concern about not being able to run an MMORPG for free. If you're going to run an MMORPG, don't screw around, get a business loan and hire professionals who specialize in these areas. We're developers, not network administrators, we're not financial institutions that handle online transactions. Ok, maybe some of you know how to do all that, but then where are you going to find time to develop your game? You're going to need time to develop new things to add to your MMORPG every month, or people will get bored with it. It needs to be tested before it goes live, how are you going to do that if you're monitoring the game servers for hacking activity, monitoring the billing system etc.
If you can't get a loan, try making an FPS game first and use revenues from that to finance a MMORPG game. You are not going to be able to run a decent MMORPG without a lot of money to finance it. You literally need an array of servers, dependable high performance machines. They do not need to render graphics like the client does so when I refer to high performance it is not in reference to video output. Having a reputable company host the game and paying them for the service is very expensive, but is the cheaper alternative to renting a building with enough space for the "array of servers", having enough employees for the aforementioned tasks (billing, server admins, network security, etc).
Most of these companies in the business of hosting services also have climate control to keep the machines at optimal operating temperatures and humidity. Between that and running all the servers, just think of what the electric bill would be. They also have an emergency power generator to guarantee that their service is uninterruptable.
Can you run multiple servers on one machine? Sure you can, I wouldn't. Can one machine handle 500 people at once? That depends on how willing you are to let your customers get so fed up with server lag that they cancel their accounts. People like smooth gameplay, a jittery game is annoying. So, you're going to need quite a few machines to run each "mission map" that is part of the world you create. Hence the term I used, "array of servers". And the means by which the players move from one area (mission server) to another has to be seemless.
Prior to the game going live I'd hire somebody who specializes in software security to examine the code for any possible loopholes. Even then it won't be 100% hack-proof. But they can catch more potential problems than you or I could. Then again, maybe you are sharp that way, and the more time you spend on plugging up loopholes the further the release date is for your game...
Now, if I'm wrong about any of this, please let me know exactly what and why. Because I wouldn't want to invest a lot of time and money and THEN find out I was going about it the wrong way. :)
#120
Rent a couple of T1's and hook up your own network, I say. It's not hard to set up the domain controllers and such, and you'll need the network when you put your company together anyway, so why not go the whole 9 and put the game network in place too(obviously, you want those two networks seperated from each other for security purposes). You may wind up doing so anyway, seeing that the network topology planned for these networks may not be agreeable with the colocation company.
However, look into Butterfly.net and other grid networks, they are much more geared towards mmo games, but you have to integrate their software into your game engine for it to run on their network(still not too bad of a deal, I don't think).
07/11/2004 (7:32 am)
@Don: Well, that's a pretty good plan, though when I was looking at hosting and colocation companies, I found that the level of support that they provide is limited to the "push button to reset server" level. For most servers(even game servers for things like FPS or ladder games, that would be fine, but an MMO requires special monitoring tools, and the people to lay hands directly on the machine. Again, if it was really small scale, like a server or two, it is still an option.Rent a couple of T1's and hook up your own network, I say. It's not hard to set up the domain controllers and such, and you'll need the network when you put your company together anyway, so why not go the whole 9 and put the game network in place too(obviously, you want those two networks seperated from each other for security purposes). You may wind up doing so anyway, seeing that the network topology planned for these networks may not be agreeable with the colocation company.
However, look into Butterfly.net and other grid networks, they are much more geared towards mmo games, but you have to integrate their software into your game engine for it to run on their network(still not too bad of a deal, I don't think).
Torque 3D Owner Ted Southard
The more direct way to accomplish this is to put timers on accounts to allow for either timed or tiered access. IE, a free account for 5 hours a week play, $5 a month for 10 hours a week, $10 for 20 hours, $15 for 30 hours, etc. Not for nothing, but there's a reason why almost all ISP's made us pay per minute in the begining of all this internet madness. It's only after years and years of building up their infrastructures that they can say $20 for unlimited access.
And if the side-effect is slowing down people who are driven to play so much, and level that playing field just a bit(and maybe even slow some of the crazies down a bit and avoid a lawsuit or three), then even better ;)
I'm playing with the tiered account approach myself(except for the free option, I just can't afford to do that off the bat).