Elite Multiplayer? Why not a Torque

#1 "Edzup is making a Elite multiplayer game using Blitz Basic"

For thoses google impaired thats www.edzup.co.uk/elitemultiplayer.html

Also
www.galileo-projects.org/
and
www.jades.org/tep/

oh I forgot
www.m3fe.com/content/m3/ Sorry Paul :)


are also "elite remakes"

Now I don't know too much about edzup as it's clearly doomed to failure, as it's being written in blitzbasic :)
TEP, and Galileo ave all been abandoned. Even Christian Pinders Elite New Kind www.newkind.co.uk/(reverse engineered from the 6502 asm sources) is the only decent elite clone thats ever been finished (and his sites down atm) - and he got a nastygram by DB (if you don't know who that is - visit www.bigfoot.com/~elite0 and read his partners side of things.

John Jordan's hack to make FFE to work under windows is another "completed project" www.jaj22.demon.co.uk/

Even Teddy glelite.sourceforge.net/ is a long ongoing and successful (in terms of released code)

If any of the regular GGers are still interested in elite try here mackayj.doosh.net/ for some fan art :)

And last but not least check out www.binstar.com/ Yet *ANOTHER* project based around the idea of a multi player elite. Though Eth is significantly further along than most of the other projects you'll see about.

#2 Johnny,
I sincerly hope you get further than the pipedream stage. But adapting torque to something along the lines of a multiplayer elite will be quite a significant task. Forgive me if I seem jaded, but ever month or so theres a post on a.f.e (groups.google.com/groups?q=alt.fan.elite) that announces proudly another elite clone "in the making", which never sees the light of day.

Persistant worlds and procedural tech demos are very nice to play with (and one of my goals is to write an www.eve-online.com/ beater - but thats a fair distance away depite many years of playing with the technology, writing tech demos for procedural planets, star systems, and galaxies.

My best advice to you is thus:

Don't underestimate the complexity of the project that you're taking on. Start small, build up ... be prepared to start again from scratch many times


I personally think TGE might not have all the bits you will want - you will have to delve into the codebase and hack in the stuff you need - so that means learning a fair bit of C++ if you don't know it already !

If you do the irc thing, you can catch a fair amount of a.f.e regulars on #gamedev (where you can find me) or #alt.fan.elite (very anarchic) on irc.starchat.org

Regards,

Simon

#3 Also RiftSpace is a recent Elite-style (space-trading & combat) game - also an independent release. But it's not multiplayer.

I *LOVED* Frontier (Elite II) - it consumed me for about two months straight. My neighbor and I traded notes on our best trading routes, swapped ship designs, etc. GREAT stuff. I've yet to play a game of the same type that was as fun. Privateer & Freelancer had much better combat missions, and of course a reasonably decent storyline, but were FAR too linear and brief, and didn't really provide you with much for going beyond the storyline. There isn't the same thrill of discovery in either of those games (though getting to the planet inhabited by monkeys in Freelancer was kinda fun.)

I want to get into X2: The Threat, but I haven't had time. The combat component looks like it's not great (better than Elite / Frontier, at least), but it seems to have more of the open-ended design.

I haven't played enough of Riftspace to get an opinion one way or another.

But as I discovered playing Freelancer multiplayer... a multiplayer Elite-type game is BORING. Or frustrating, as the players that attack you only do so when they have an overwhelming advantage, and there's not much you can do. Teaming up never really happened.

I suppose it *is* possible to make this type of game FUN (hey, I may not be a great game designer, but even I have a few ideas laying around about how to make it work...), but simply slapping multiplayer & a persistent universe on top of an Elite-flavored game won't do it.

#4 @Simon

You got that right heh. Actually I started to do it anyway.

I think this will be fun for me to get to know torque.

I got Ken's book and few other GEMS to read'

Plus I need a break from drawing and applying other people resources to our game framework. :)

@Jay

I heard of that. But now I know how to get to it. I will check it out.

Ok with that said and done guess I better get to cracking..uhm Chapter 1 introduction to 3d game programming

John H.

#5 I'll be releasing a space game-pack for TGE soon that will give you everything you need to create a space game for torque. (Vehicle, asteroids, simple AI, lasers etc). You could maybe use that for the beginnings of an elite type game.

#6 Great Phil

That wlll definitely give me a boost. :)

Especially on the Space Enviroment. I looked at Wendell's resource.

I also wonder whatever happen to Jonathan Tarbox real-star data driven stuff. It was pretty exciting I wonder if he every got his Occ-Tree stuff going.

To keep it simple I know Elite only has 256 Star systems. And most of it is compose of a single planet and one orbiting space Station.

Iam not trying to recreate the universe (a planet yes!!) But anyway 256 Fxplanet-(regular planets :P)objects. 1 FxLensFlare Sun for each system.

Like the original Elite getting close to planets pretty much blow you up. Trading can only be done docked at stations.

Everything from the way Elite generated the galaxy to how the trade system worked is out there on the Web. So I got plenty of info.

I even found a copy of newkind elite source and all so I got a good guide book. heh. Anyway I think this will be a great side project.

Check out StarWraith I got 1 and 2 which fits the feel I am going for fast twitch action nothing RPGish too much heh.

John H.

#7 John, newkind (or atleast the old version I have) is spurising easy to read.

The old elite info on trading, and goat soup planet descriptions is out there too - IBs text-based elite to be exact.

Be aware if you use any of the elite franchises assets you will attract nastygrams from the copyright holders, if you decide to release your project to the public. If you don't belive me, this is the pertinent thread on alt.fan.elite

I look forward to screenshots!

#8 So Phil... does this mean that you aren't going to finish Deep Space Legends?

#9 Each day that goes by put the copyright holders that much closer to the crypt keeper's domain and Elite the IP moves toward the heaven of public domain which Iam pretty sure I will see it happen in my lifetime Simon. :)

Yeah I will post pics. Thats something I have never did yet on GG.

John H.

#10 I wish you luck Johnny :)

#11 Jay,

"But as I discovered playing Freelancer multiplayer... a multiplayer Elite-type game is BORING. Or frustrating, as the players that attack you only do so when they have an overwhelming advantage, and there's not much you can do. Teaming up never really happened."

That nails it pretty good, we tried with an overhaul of Freelancer but it wasn't until we basically forced people into a team game that they felt they had a purpose. And now, we're looking into using Torque for our next project rather than having to deal with the flaws of someone else's game that we have no hope of fixing.

Anyway, a lot of players have commented on how cool it was when their actions had a direct impact on the game world. For example, as pirates destroy more transports the local equipment prices increase. Now, we have players that are completely addicted to the stat pages, they go out on their own "missions" and when they return they quickly duck out to check the webpage to see the effect they had on the team scores and the game world. So making a game that isn't boring is a lot easier than we may all be thinking ;)

#12 Keith -
If you are pretty much starting with a clean slate and designing it with a focus on an enjoyable multiplayer experience from the beginning, and THEN adding elements from games such as elite *as they fit*, then there's no reason you can't succeed.

It's just doing it the other way around --- trying to tack on multiplayer to an existing, highly solo design --- that may often be doomed to failure.

#13 Ships as Players or Players as Ships?

I went with Ships as Players. Right now the one ship the Cobra is the only one Iam working with for now.

Adding ships is no problem, but I want the gameplay right.

Couple things I found. A pick-box selection system using Opengl and getting cordinates from world space. This would be great feature to add to a nice navigation system.

And the Guys at CyberFuge have educated me on implemented a HUD similiar to CyberFuge but more Elite-ish. Please check them out they are still working on Cyberfuge which I cant wait to play heh.

John H.

#14 The day Phil releases this is the day I start writing a new version of Subspace. Man I simply loved that game but Virgin Interactive let everyone down by pulling the plug so soon. Simple and 100% effective space game that even a child could pick up and start playing. Yes, there's a remade version called Continuum now which was built from the ground up from the original game (and a good effort) but a Torque version would rock my world.

#15 I'm also interested in "one plane" space games. I love Armada, an arcade/RPG mix space game that was only released for the Dreamcast.

#16 Now its just a matter of getting the SPACE portion so I will save my dollars again for Phils pack. But thats hasnt stop me from doing the ground work. Been eyeing the Faction resource :)

That faction system resource is great for the old Pirates, Law, and Goverment Agencies Hit list thing.

1. Smuggle a lot of Black market items and the Cops and bounty hunters will blow you out of space the minute you attempt to land.

2. The pirates will welcome you to their bases and let you buy all the illegal stuff you can have.

or Do a lot good stuff and...

1. The cops will be quick to help you if your being chased by pirates

2. You can shop and trade freely at friendly bases. But Pirates will be gunning for your ship's belly full of goodies.

and then there are the ALIENS!!

They dont care what your standing is with anybody so...You know the rest :)

Of course I have yet to even add any Elite code at muhahaauahahaaaaa!!!! Its all torque thanks to Ken's Book and my cut n paste franken-notes.

John H

#17 Yaaaaaaawn another late night red-eyed update.

Gameplay is still the same. My uber "Cobra-X" flys around using bullets which is totally unreal. So I need to add lasers. Like the Elite cousin Iam uh modeling from. I found a nice article on using billboards to make lasers.

This is becoming a more fun-stress reducer since summer is winding down and my precious vacation time is almost over :P

I can only say that Kens book is GREAT!!! let me know when the 2nd edition is coming out LOL.

John H.

#18 Time for a bit of update now the opposite is happening Spring Spring and the cruel vicious work cycle will rest. 6-months work 6-months rest And Iam not in the MILTARY heh.

Cobra X still exists. and stilll shoots bullets which is unrealistic LOL. However something stirs in my old grey mud. Once I get the ok to settle down I will post what I learned from this little foray last year.

#19 I'm helping someone with a Starglider remake, only a lot more sophisticated. Elite is still my all time favourite. The starglider game currently has an option for an elite style radar, which is cool since you can dogfight by that alone without looking at the main screen.

Just something I'm doing for fun, probably going to be freeware :)

#20 Going to revisit this I need to give CobraX a laser beam :)

There was a post where someone had implemented a very nice Laser beam into realmwars code. I know because I still got that demo where you can burn Kork to death heh. :)

Do anybody know what happen to that post? Is the laser pack still coming out.

Edit Found it :) Beams

@Adrian yeah I played starglider and like it as well :)

John H