Neg brushes in QuArK?
by Luke D · in Torque Game Engine · 06/05/2004 (12:50 am) · 3 replies
I'm in the process of learning QuArK for interiors and recently started toying with portals.
In constructing my experimental buildings, I've come across the concept of the 'neg poly', used to carve out a hole at compile time. This seems like a great way to move doors/windows/whatever around without having to tweak brush-fragments after a real brush subtraction. It seems to work great.
Unfortunately now I've run into a problem trying to apply portals to these holes. I have a house with several windows and two doors carved into the exterior walls with neg polys. I created portal entities and dropped a new poly (with 'null' texture applied) as a child and placed it over the hole (making it slightly bigger to assure a seal).
When exported to Torque and using the setInteriorRenderMode to 7, I get pink translucent polys filling the window/door holes but the interior is not zoned differently. Thinking I had a leak somewhere in the structure I went back into QuArK and did a hole test- QuArK thinks the windows/doors are holes in the map (but otherwise finds no leaks). At first I thought that made some sense, because QuArK probably believes it is carving out everything in those spaces (including the poly designated as a portal). What I can't believe is that QuArK wouldn't have already thought of this conflict because it basically means that neg polys can't be used for exterior holes.
Is anyone else using neg polys and found a way to properly portal-ize the holes they create? I really like the concept of the neg brushes and would hate to have to give them up.
(incidentally I found one year-old text on the net that makes vague hints that neg polys are officially deprecated, but goes on to mention something called a 'plug' which carves a hole but the neg-brush stays, i.e. to be used with a window texture; however I can't find a single bit of further info...)
Thanks,
Luke
In constructing my experimental buildings, I've come across the concept of the 'neg poly', used to carve out a hole at compile time. This seems like a great way to move doors/windows/whatever around without having to tweak brush-fragments after a real brush subtraction. It seems to work great.
Unfortunately now I've run into a problem trying to apply portals to these holes. I have a house with several windows and two doors carved into the exterior walls with neg polys. I created portal entities and dropped a new poly (with 'null' texture applied) as a child and placed it over the hole (making it slightly bigger to assure a seal).
When exported to Torque and using the setInteriorRenderMode to 7, I get pink translucent polys filling the window/door holes but the interior is not zoned differently. Thinking I had a leak somewhere in the structure I went back into QuArK and did a hole test- QuArK thinks the windows/doors are holes in the map (but otherwise finds no leaks). At first I thought that made some sense, because QuArK probably believes it is carving out everything in those spaces (including the poly designated as a portal). What I can't believe is that QuArK wouldn't have already thought of this conflict because it basically means that neg polys can't be used for exterior holes.
Is anyone else using neg polys and found a way to properly portal-ize the holes they create? I really like the concept of the neg brushes and would hate to have to give them up.
(incidentally I found one year-old text on the net that makes vague hints that neg polys are officially deprecated, but goes on to mention something called a 'plug' which carves a hole but the neg-brush stays, i.e. to be used with a window texture; however I can't find a single bit of further info...)
Thanks,
Luke
#2
I've had problems using negative polys when designing Quake levels and this may applicable here. The grouping problem was one thing I seem to remember, but I have also encountered other problems not unlike the ones you are experiencing Luke. I found it better not to use the tool and just build as you would normally. (Seemed to get a much higher triangle and face count when using the tool aswell - which isn't good)
07/18/2004 (3:36 pm)
Only just noticed this thread, so sorry for the late reply.I've had problems using negative polys when designing Quake levels and this may applicable here. The grouping problem was one thing I seem to remember, but I have also encountered other problems not unlike the ones you are experiencing Luke. I found it better not to use the tool and just build as you would normally. (Seemed to get a much higher triangle and face count when using the tool aswell - which isn't good)
#3
I've actually started using trueSpace with AeonGames' map exporter instead anyway. The hassle of limiting myself to convex shapes and a few other quirks is made up for all the other tools I can use that Quark et al don't have (or have very limited support for.) I'm pretty impressed so far, though I've been doing building hulls mostly with very basic interiors. We'll see if it holds up to the more complex interiors down the road. :)
I was pretty skeptical about how usable such a plugin would be because of the restrictions and differences of the map format, but with a bit of care I'm thinking I could use this 85% of the time or more.
Luke
07/18/2004 (8:09 pm)
Thanks for the advice. I ended up with a combination of the two which seemed to work (using the neg brushes for non-critical internal holes, etc.) I've actually started using trueSpace with AeonGames' map exporter instead anyway. The hassle of limiting myself to convex shapes and a few other quirks is made up for all the other tools I can use that Quark et al don't have (or have very limited support for.) I'm pretty impressed so far, though I've been doing building hulls mostly with very basic interiors. We'll see if it holds up to the more complex interiors down the road. :)
I was pretty skeptical about how usable such a plugin would be because of the restrictions and differences of the map format, but with a bit of care I'm thinking I could use this 85% of the time or more.
Luke
Torque 3D Owner Luke D
Default Studio Name
And another profound answer just came to me as I wrote the first part. I faintly recall reading that the negative poly only effects items within its grouping (or lower?). Which means the window-textured poly can live parallel or above it in the tree and survive the carve-out, if my memory is accurate.
I think I just need to save up all my newbie questions until 4am, the severe lack of sleep opens strange dark places from which the solution arises. :)
Luke