Planned improvements/fixes/new features for TSE

#1 We spoke about those things at GDC. A roadmap will be released when TSE Early Adopters release is release describing the specifics of our rewrite. Basically, we're putting in a new graphics layer that supports shaders, as well as a lot of other miscellanous rendering related fixes.

#2 Very cool. That's pretty much what I was looking for. I am fairly new to the community and wasn't lucky enough to go to GDC. Thanks for the answer.

#3 Hmm.. will the decals be addressed? that is, make them conform to the surface they draw on? that was a major disapointment for me.. :/

#4 Decals conforming to a surface is a tough problem.. John Carmack saved that until last in the Q3 engine because he was having problems getting them to conform to spline patches. Because surfaces are becoming so complex, it's changed in nature what must be done to make a decal conform.

But, then again, you have the code... Fix it yourself! ;-)

- Brett

#5 Except... there are no spline patches in torque. Decals work in half-life 1, they really need to work in torque for it to be competitive.

And I'm sick of the "its too hard fix it yourself" excuse. If it's too hard for the creators of the engine, how are us flunkies who only bought the engine supposed to do it?

#6 Eric

It's not always that the creators can focus on such a "small" feature.

#7 Competitive why? how? with what?

Your opinion is on what features make a game competitive is based on your needs and your game, and may not be the same features that other developers understand as must have features for their game to be competitive.

You may be sick of it, but get used to it. There are many things that the TGE could or 'should' have, but the list of what is being worked on is based on a priority of what is actually needed to make shippable fun products.

If it is necessary for you, for your game, then implement it. If it was necessary for our titles, we would do the same.

OR, start a thread about engine features that the TGE needs to be competitive, try to gain support for it with a strong argument for adding a feature, and buid support for some initiatives to get them into the TGE.

#8 By competitive I mean visually competitive. As in "doesnt look like crap next to". So when I say
"Torque can't compete with half life because of the decals"

that translates into :

"Torque looks like crap next to half life because the decals float in mid air"

Please dont act like I'm the only one in the world who wants decals. They're pretty much a standard feature in any commercial game today.
Almost any game can make use of them. Its not a game specific feature any more than particle effects are.

#9 I respect your opinion but I don't agree. If your game looks like crap if the decals don't work like you want, then that is your deal. If you won't purchase a game because of this, then that is an issue for the developer of the game in terms of the features they have in their game.

And I am not acting like you are the only one in the world that wants them. I am sure there are others. Those that have the knowledge to add them do not have this featture, at this point in time, on the high priority list.

Not arguing with you that it would not be nice. For us (bravetree), it is very very low on the priority list.

Our next 2-3 titles would probably make no use whatsoever of decals.

Note that I am not speaking for GarageGames here, only expressing my personal viewpoint.

#10 My poor thread has gone way off topic. I keep seeing new posts and think there may be some more details on TSE. Oh well. :)

#11 If something tiny like decals are gonna kill your game then your game is already broken. TGE is what it is, plain and simple. I'm sure that other game engines have just as many little devils, but thats just a fact of large programming projects.

I thought TGE could make instances of things have mutable properties w/ script, but it requires engine code.

besides, isnt there the fxDecal thing that works properly I thought?? and there's always DIY!!

-s

#12 No, lack of decals wont kill my game. Neither will any of these things:
-bogus transparency sorting
-lo-res 16 bit light maps
-shadows clipping through the ground
-culling errors on shadows particles and mounted images
-terrain textures limited to 256
-limited terrain size

But they all add up. This is why torque is limited to making budget titles. It looks like ass. Even with the best models and gameplay, you cant charge full price for something that looks like it was made in 1998.

Its in GG's own best interests to make the engine more complete and easier to use.

Personally, I dont mind that much. I've decided to just go ahead with the big stuff and worry about the little stuff later. I just want people to admit that these things are actual problems that need to be addressed. Acknowledging the problem is the first step to fixing it.

#13 The only limitation that Torque has is your skill as a programmer. Plain and simple.

You spent $100 on the engine, if you're unhappy with it I'm sure that's a small enough investment for you to just blow off. There are several engines that I'm sure would meet your "eye candy" feature list, Unreal Engine, Source Engine... they might be a bit expensive to use though.

#14 Harold, I've been totally converted to your system of thinking. I just went out ad bought a Yugo. The Yugo is the most reliable car ever. Its only limitation is your ability to fix it. And hey if it turns out its really not good enough i can just toss it right? Yugos rule!

#15 I'm not trying to completely trash the torque engine here, there are many great features. All I'm asking is for you to acknowledge that problems exist. Dont just deny them and tell me to fix it myself.

#16 Eric Hartman

Look like ass? 1998? Err, where are you from? 2030?
If that's the case why don't you modify it yourself?

I think TGE right now looks competetive to other engines. Maybe not the Unreal2k series but then again look at the price.

#17 There are problems. Let's move on and make games.

#18 Making games is all about problems... and their solutions. If you look beyond your own abilities, you are dependent. If you don't like being dependent, it's your problem and no one elses.

#19 It's hard to deny a problem exists when you tell someone to fix it themself. No?

It's all about your subjective perception.

You feel that feature X is important, I feel feature Y is... which one should GG's work on? Or should we each work on the feature we want and then share it with the rest of the community in some way (Free, Donation Work, Content Pack)

GG's looks at everything people want and has to decide what will provide value to the community as a whole (a reason why many resources never get put into CVS), they then have to decide if the resources spent should be used for a free update (bug fixes, small changes, etc) or a full blown seperate release (TNL, TSE)

TNL gives you the flexability of using the Torque Networking code in any engine you want.
TSE gives Torque a complete rendering engine overhaul, updating the graphics to support shaders, and visual eyecandy on par with pretty much any upcoming game.

You bought a car with a standard package, and you're complaining to the dealer that it's missing the sunroof, power windows, and power locks.

#20 Torque looked good 4 years ago, TSE is what looks good now. Is the TSE going to be fully Direct X9 compatable? Maybe even have full rendering?