Player animation max sample files

#1 I've been here for a while too and I still don't grasp how the animation works, really. :P Would be a nice addition.

#2 No it is not possible for you to get the files that were used to generate the DSQs. I believe this is due to the fact that the DSQs actually come from Tribes 2 and the art source is not included in the TGE liscense.

As for animation files themselves they are relatively simple to create. You just need to do the following:
1. Animate
2. Setup your sequence
3. Export

If you are working with a blend animation then you simply need to set things up so that frame 0 is the root pose, frame 1 to frame end is your animation. Set the sequence helper to export from frame 1 to frame end and as a blend and voila.

As for what sequences are blends... the answer is pretty much everything except for the forward, back and side step animations.

In regards to length, its your animation set it how ever long you want it to be.

Naming, follow the torque conventions or create your own.

Honestly there is nothing holding anyone back from creating their own animations, don't use the lack of a sample file as a crux to not do the work.

Logan

#3 Logan Foster

And that was said by one of the most outstanding FAQ writers on GG, you :P Incase you haven't noticed, many don't have a clue on how the system works, anyway.

When I was new, I couldn't for the life of me understand how the animations were added, until I asked in IRC alot.

No one asked for the RW animations, a screenshot would work too with some of the architecture and how it's setup. Or maybe a VERY BASIC walking cycle made by someone who knows how to set it up?

I'll do this myself as soon as I learn how to do it, but right now I don't.

#4 We are working on a content pack that will answer most of these questions. Don't want to promise a delivery date, as we are at the moment kind of slammed with work.. but it is in the works.

#5 Joe Maruschak:

I respect all your work and the help you have given to the communuity, but I don't think anyone should buy a content pack to learn how to make an animation correctly. That's something I would do for free if I knew how to do it.

I fully support most of your packs and ThinkThanks, but that's a little under the belt in my opinion.

Other than that, I think I agree with Billy for the most part.

#6 Yes,

Maybe you should start your own forums. :P

there are a lot of people that have done a lot for the community, free of charge. I think I have done more than my fair share of helping people here on the forums.

I want to help the community learn these things. I do not have an unlimited amount of time.

If I had unlimited time and resources, I would certainly release something for free. I don't. I run a business. I have a kid.. I have a wife. I do this full time. Asking people to put their familes at risk and work for you, to give you something you want, for free, is in very poor form, in my opinion.

You want it free, so you think I should give up my time to make something for you that you need. It is really insulting that you have asked this in the way that you did. It is not my responsibility to make sure you learn.

I will continue to do what I can to help people learn what I know, and we will release content packs to help as a way that we can share what we know and make it worth our time to do so. This is not greed, it is about survival as an indie.

I do ask that those tht want to learn do not throw on the shoulders of those who know the burden of holding their hands. I gave up a LOT to learn what I know, and have been doing so for a long time. I will continue to try to help,. when I can.. but I am not obligated to do so. your attitude pretty much makes me want to say.. figure it out yourself.

If anyone wants to release a full set of animations for free. I have no problem with it. More power to them. I do not have the time nor can I afford to invest the effort into doing this as a free project.

#7 Joe

As I said, I fully respect what you do and I fully understand your position, BUT your argument is very weak AND my attitude, as you kindly put it, is that I think we all should share what we know, not sell it - it doesn't matter how evil you think I am or what attitude I have, I don't like your attitude either, at this point.

making one animation public isn't going to rape your economy or anything, it won't take more than 5 minutes of your time EITHER.
You could pick one of the already existing models and just take away everything except for some basic stuff, take a screenshot and publish it.

Reason is, that you want to earn something for it, I guess.
I still respect your for that, and wish you good luck - but it ain't my boat, and you certainly didn't like what I said up there, so I'm going to stay away from this thread.

"full set of animations" isn't what this was about.

Quote:
You want it free, so you think I should give up my time to make something for you that you need. It is really insulting that you have asked this in the way that you did. It is not my responsibility to make sure you learn.

and please don't twist my words. read my post again.


edit: spelling.

#8 Man Joe sure is bitchy lately..
you ok there buds?
...
anyhow.. im sure these people are not looking for a complete handout
I think what he is asking for is One animation maybe two to blend together..

Im sure the content pack will reach far beyond that.
and an excellent service it will be im sure.
But it is not the tutoring animation example these people are looking for.

what they need is stick man with the animation exportable.

And I concur that we Need this example in the engine base
not a paid resource pack.
its kind of funny actually how this specific step is holding up alot of character / game development with this engine.

Im not putting it on you tho joe. your a busy guy.
pretty much anyone who knows how to get a character in this game could do this.

#9 Reason is, I don't have a full set of animations that was not created either under contract or at work at Dynamix, which I can not release due to copyright reasons.

If I had a set that were copyright free, I would have relesed them long long ago.

If I wanted to release a set for free now.. I would have to create a new set. This will take about 3 weeks to do (to make an entire new set and all the supporting documentation).

This would actually be very damaging to us as a company at this point in time.

So, I hear that you think that it is no big deal for me to whip something together, but, in actuality, it is a big deal. If I had the time and resources, I would.. I don't. Simple as that. I understand you think I should, or perhaps you think I am lying.. matters not to me. I have shared my knowledge.. it is in the docs and posted all over these forums and in IRC logs for the past 2 years.

I will continue to share it, when I can, but I can't take the time to do what everyone is asking a this moment. maybe in the future, I will.. right now, it is just not possible.

Quote:That's something I would do for free if I knew how to do it.

that is great... I am not in that position.. please respect that.

Quote:Other than that, I think I agree with Billy for the most part.

and billy says:

Quote:From the beginning in the forums people helped out real good,
now they do content packs of things they know,
instead of helping people thats wants help real bad.
We that want to give away things for free maybe should
start our own forums and irc.

So how am I twisting your words? You agree with Billy.. I lump you both in the camp of 'we that wants to give away things for free'.

I want to help people that want to learn. I can't do it for free at this point in time. Sorry you all feel slighted because of it. Everntually this resource will exist for free. We will release it as a content pack as we need to make money on the effort expended in order for it to make sense to our company to expend effort on it. I need to eat.. I am not rich...

If a made a book about how to do it, would you pruchase that? My knowledge and my time has no value to you?

Sorry.. you make not like my attitude, and basically, I am getting to point that I no longer care what anyone thinks of my attitude. I am not obligated to give anything to anyone or respond to any thread here on GG that relates to knowledge I have that people want. I do it because I like to help, and I want people to learn. I get nothing from it other than feeling like I am doing a good thing.

When people start placing expectations on others and getting nasty about it, that is where I draw the line.

edit:

Badguy, I agree, there does need to be a fre resource. Those that have the time and knowledge are very welcome to do it.. I just don't have the time and my bitchiness is to the insinuation that I am being greedy. Ain't the case. I am not driving a Ferrari...

2nd edit:

my intent with posting in this thread was to inform people that there will be a resource soon in the form of a content pack. It may not be ideal for the people that want it for free.. but it will be an option. And yeah, I am being a little touchy.. but I did not really like the way that my disemination of information was met with jeers..

#10 I agree with Joe here... Look, every one of us asks help of others, and this community is probably the best I've seen at providing that help. Hell, I don't think my project would be near the point it's at now if it wasn't for the free information the community releases.

But too much of a free thing is a bad thing for both the ones needing help, and the ones giving it. We don't need people with the feeling of entitlement any more than we need people feeling that they somehow owe the community just because they have knowledge.

And in addition to that, time is a commodity, or else people would take the time to learn on their own instead of asking. Why shouldn't those with knowledge get money for that hard-earned time? After all, the work they put into that information is the kind of work we all dream about collecting regular paychecks for, right? Let's let them get paid.

Just my 2 cents. Take it with the usual grain of salt...

#11 I have no clue why I or Joe were attacked here in this thread by a few individuals, but I find it rather insulting especially considering the fact that both of us, especially Joe, have tried very hard to always post the necessary information required regarding DTS exporting.

When I posted by brief explaination of how to do animations in Torque is was brief for a reason, because it's actually very simple to do and figure out. If you can get a DTS model to export you can get a DSQ out even easier.

Step 1: Animate!

Animate your skeleton nodes (or whatever transform node you are using) on your model to get the desired result that you want. Remember that with animation, the better you setup your skeletal rig the easier it is to animate :)

How long should your animation be? Well assume that 30 frames equals 1 second (standard NTSC) and time it out from there. Honestly, the timing here is all based on what the action is. If you don't know how long the action should take, go review some research material such as books or videos for subjects such as walk cycles, falls, getting hurt, etc..

Note: If for some strange reason you do not know how to animate in your 3D package (or know how to animate period) you should go and learn how to. There are numerous books and other media on this subject that is worth reviewing and will not just teach you about animation but give you a good idea on timing, distances and other items.

Step 2: Setup the Sequence Helper

If you think you are happy with your animation it's time to setup your sequence helper. This is incredibly easy to do, add a sequence helper to your scene. Set the start and end keyframes at their appropriate locations. Choose whether the animation is a blend or not, cyclical (ie. does it do a complete loop), complete (ie. is the animation playing a complete sequence from start to finish, or is the last frame setup to synch back into the first), the transform/export control, and the frame rate (ie. how much sampling will be done during your animation time, a higher value results in a larger file but greater keyframe interpolation which can result in a smoother playback that closely mimics your animation. This setting is really dependant upon how the sequence plays back in game or in show tool and should be increased or decreased accordingly, you should leave it at default at the start and go from there).

#12

Step 3: Export

Export as a DSQ (or as a DTS with animation). Note that you shouldn't need any of your model geometry when you export as a DSQ since DSQs control only transforms of nodes in your scene and the model geometry will only add bloat to the file.

Step 4: Check in Showtool and Ingame

Review the sequence for problems or tweaks that you can make to it, then go back to step 1.

Extra Info: Regarding Blends

If you are choosing to do a blend animation, and most animations that are in TGE are blends. It is recommended that you setup your scene so that frame 0 is the 'root' pose of your model. In the case of the character such as the Orc it's the model standing in an active position holding the gun. You should then animation from frame 1 to frame end. When you setup your sequence start/end keyframes go from frame 1 to frame end. This will help the blend animation that you are doing mix in with all other animations for the model properly.

Final Summary:

And that is pretty much it. There honestly is nothing to it, you just need to get out there and try, try, try. If you can export a DTS you can export a DSQ (or a DTS with animation). There is absolutely no need for anyone to provide you with sample models to stare at because there is nothing that they can teach you that hasn't already been said. Everything you need to know has been told to you in the DTS Docs and further explained here in this post I just did (and even other threads).

I apoligize if anyone is offended by my saing this, but it doesn't get any easier than this, so if you still can't figure it out maybe you should just give up the though of animating. There is no magic pixie dust involved just hard work and competency in knowing your tool and the exporter.

Now with that said, I think I need to put in a defense for an animation content pack. Why? Well it's simple, good animation that is of professional quality, especially for characters, is extremely difficult to do. So what you would be paying for isn't just a simple setup and export job, but countless hours of hard work to make a realistic flowing motion that is believable. So please don't insult someone for wanting to make some money on the incredibly hard work that is done to do professional level work.

Logan

#13 No one is saying 'buy the content pack' instead of getting the answer on IRC. And there is no conspiracy to deny information and only let it out in the form of products.

What happens is that people come onto IRC, have not read the docs, have not read in the forums, and have not done the research to make it work themselves. They want peopel to fix their shapes and they have not put any effort into doing it themselves.

I am not singling you out. You may be one of the individuals who is doing the research and needs a little more help. If so, ask nicely, ask questions that are not answered on page 1 of the docs, and be patient. We are busy people, working on products, and we will help when we can. It is not your right to expect or demand that anyone help you.

And please don't expect that anyone here on the forums or on IRC can teach anyone to be proficient in a 3d modeling app that took most of us several YEARS to become proficient in.

All the information needed to sucessfully export models (including animated characters) is on this site and in the docs. Many have sucessfully figured out how.

Some people may have particular problems with some portion of the export process, and even today, in this thread I spent some time to give Spencer some help.

The info is there, help will be given if asked in the right way. We are in no way obligated to help you learn. If you want the quick fix, buy a content pack. Everything you need to know about making a shape is in a content pack. It is all in the files.. If you don't want to, then get reading and studying the information on this site.

#14 Well, I appreciate your help Joe and Logan; both have helped me understand what was unknownst to me before...:) I've even purchased a Pak from BraveTree to do just what was mentioned above...and I have no problems compensating someone for their time, it's something you don't get back...! With this and Spencer's thread, it has answered a lot of my questions towards the TGE animation process. I can fully understand why Source Materials are not freely distributed, I mean; come on... I will continue to support the companies whose employees take time to help Industry newcomers. Thanks.

#15 So you are asking about how to animate a run in general? This is something where there are tons of resources on the web regarding HOW to animate. Looking at an animation file is not going to do you much good in terms of learning HOW to animate. If you need to learn how to setup an run for animation export into the TGE, that is actually really easy.

Make your DTS character, set it up properly as specified in the docs. Animate a run. Make sure the character moves along the ground (not running in place) , move the bounding box with the character in the animation, make sure frame 0 of the file is in the same position as the DTS shape from which you exported the DTS, and export as a DSQ.

That is pretty much it. The TGE is very flexible in terms of how one can get an animated character into the game.

Reading the docs gives you as much (if not more) information than looking at an animation file.

Maybe I am not understanding you correctly. What is it you want a file of and what should this file contain? What is it you are trying to learn?

edit

Just a note so there is no misunderstanding.. the animation system was designed so that the model and the animations could be exported separately (DTS and DSQs)

In my work process, each model and each individual animation is contained in one scene file and exported separately. This allows for much more control of what is being exported in each animation and allows several artists/animators to work on the animations, There is no 'on file' that contains all the animations.

#16 I don't get it then. If you have some animation files.. upload them and post a link. If you need web space, sned them to me and I will host them. Help those who need a hand. As I have stated before, I don't have a set that is copyright free that I CAN give away. If you do, then release them. I am stunned that you are on this thread complaining about it when you are in a position to do something about it.

#17 So what everyone wants is a run cycle for the default guy? The default Guy is done in Biped. I am totally not getting what is being asked. What do people need? A Biped with a run cycle? What does it everyone expects to learn from looking at a file with a Biped doing a run cycle? I think I can accomodate this (uploading a run on biped that will work with the default guy) , but before I make the effort, I want to know WHY people want this and what they think this will do for them.

I am not the one complaining here.. I piped in and posted some information that a content pack would at some point be available that will have ALL the animations available so that people can learn (in both MAX and MAYA formats if we can swing it) and got attacked by the 'we want it free' crowd, of which you are leading at this point.

Make it clear as to what it is you want and what your point or what your 'opinion' is. I am really, really not understanding where it is you are coming from.

#18 To make it clear, and to get this back on topic, and to make this as educational as possible, I will reanswer what Logan has already answered.

Is there a way to get a max file with all the default player anims?

No. Not the originals. One, because the are not one file, two, because the are copyrighted source material, three, because I don't have them and I don't know who does.

If someone were to create a max file with all the animations in it to work with the default guy, then yeah, it would be possible. At this point in time, I am not aware of the existance of such a file.

I thinks its realy hard to get my player anims to work correct, it would be great to have a max file so I can have a look at the anims, there names, number of frames, blend or not and so on.

The names are in the player.cs in the player folder. The number of frames does not matter, it is totally arbitrary. Read that as, a long as your animation is, that is the number of frames. The root, forward, sidestep, back, jump, jump, land, death, waves, celebrations, and standjump are all normal animations.

All looks, the head animations, and the recoil are blends. If you want to see what they are, look at them in -show. You can see what they are, and which ones loop.

Frame 0 of any animation should match the root pose of your character.

with that information, someone who knows their 3d tool, knows how to animate, and has read the docs should be able to get it working. If they have specific issues, I am more than happy to help them work through them.

I agree that having a set of files to look at would help. If I had a set of files to release, I would. I don't. So, unless someone releases a set, get working using the resources that are available (including asking us for help).

#19 This thread struck a cord with me...

A year ago I began to teach myself the TGE basics. I gave up after a month because the documentation was spartan and not very good(polite phraseology). I wasn't looking for in depth hand holding, just a 'launch' platform from which to explore. At the time the best doc's weren't from GG but from helpful amateurs. To put this into perspective, I don't buy a VCR and then go to an amateurs forum on the net for someones best guesses on how to operate it - I expect the manufacturer to provide this. I know GG are trying in this department now, so have come back.

I believe that if decent basic doc's had been provided from the start by GG then the above posts wouldn't have happened.

I'm very happy that Joe can sell his content packs, as this shows that TGE is starting to mature, but better yet, grow. This can only benefit us all directly or indirectly. As someone who has been reading/searching the forums for the past three weeks I've seen the number of times Joe's answers crop up (I actually think he's a team) and am impressed. I think he does more for king and country than most...

...however Joe - nice guys aren't always appreciated. Look what happened to Jesus Christ in the end ;)

#20 The below info worked for me fine.
It is included in the docs already.
Has been available since at least Aug 2002, in the old doc format.

Animation Setup
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque/general/ch09s05.php

The only bad thing I have noticed is that animating a single mesh is tricky.

Animating a multi-part mesh is as simple as knowing your 3d
package.