Various newbie questions, standalone client? .pak support?
by Dan Kronholm · in Torque Game Engine · 04/27/2004 (11:43 pm) · 8 replies
Hello all, I purchased the SDK tonight, to support GG (I have almost no coding experience). I'm a graphics/animation "dude" by heart so coding tends to scare me ;)
Now, I have a couple of questions I hope someone can answer. I have been unable to find answers by searching the forums, but please do slap me around and call me names if the questions are silly newbie ones (I'm almost sure they are)..
1) How can I make a standalone user "client" version of Torque I can put up for download, enabling people to login to my server to look at what I have made? I don't want them to have to download the entire Torque Demo and I do not want them to have "admin" and edit rights over the world.
1.5) Maybe someone has made a "version" checker and automatic updater for such a client. I mean, the client could check to see if a new version is out (e.g. you added more content since last release) and then download it, updating it to the latest version.
2) Is there a way to pack all resource files (textures, models etc.) into one big .pak file or similar, so it's a bit trickier for people to rip my work? I also think it's a bit messy with all those files, but maybe that's just me :p
I hope someone can answer these questions, I'm off to bed now :) I'm looking forward to learning about this great engine and contributing all I can in the process.
Cheers,
Dan.
Now, I have a couple of questions I hope someone can answer. I have been unable to find answers by searching the forums, but please do slap me around and call me names if the questions are silly newbie ones (I'm almost sure they are)..
1) How can I make a standalone user "client" version of Torque I can put up for download, enabling people to login to my server to look at what I have made? I don't want them to have to download the entire Torque Demo and I do not want them to have "admin" and edit rights over the world.
1.5) Maybe someone has made a "version" checker and automatic updater for such a client. I mean, the client could check to see if a new version is out (e.g. you added more content since last release) and then download it, updating it to the latest version.
2) Is there a way to pack all resource files (textures, models etc.) into one big .pak file or similar, so it's a bit trickier for people to rip my work? I also think it's a bit messy with all those files, but maybe that's just me :p
I hope someone can answer these questions, I'm off to bed now :) I'm looking forward to learning about this great engine and contributing all I can in the process.
Cheers,
Dan.
#2
1) Yeah that would work, but people could just download the demo of Torque and install those files themselves, then they'd have "admin" access..
2) Do you hav your client updater available to the public yet?
Cheers,
Dan Kronholm.
04/28/2004 (5:20 am)
Thank you for your swift reply Stefan Lundmark, that's always nice :)1) Yeah that would work, but people could just download the demo of Torque and install those files themselves, then they'd have "admin" access..
2) Do you hav your client updater available to the public yet?
Cheers,
Dan Kronholm.
#3
04/30/2004 (10:37 am)
1) Not if you change stuff. A "real" game is likely to have some difference in those files (especially since most of the game logic is going to be in that area, written in script).
#4
face it YOU CAN NOT PROTECT FILES ON THE CLIENT!
trying to do so is a complete waste of your time and just a "challenge" to some one else with way more time on their hands you have.
this includes things that are sent from the server to the client and only reside in memory. They are on the client in memory so they are compromised.
anything on the client has to be treated as "compromised" by the server and untrusted resources.
04/30/2004 (11:37 am)
A .pk3 is simply a .zip fileface it YOU CAN NOT PROTECT FILES ON THE CLIENT!
trying to do so is a complete waste of your time and just a "challenge" to some one else with way more time on their hands you have.
this includes things that are sent from the server to the client and only reside in memory. They are on the client in memory so they are compromised.
anything on the client has to be treated as "compromised" by the server and untrusted resources.
#5
05/01/2004 (10:53 pm)
No one said anything about protecting the files.. I just wanted to make it a little bit trickier for people to view my artwork. E.g. having all my textures lie there in plain sight as PNG files VS. having it all packed up in one .pk3 file; I'd prefer the latter. I'm well aware that it's nearly impossible to protect your content.
#6
Sure, there are some easy way to produce the security you need to keep the casual straggler out of your assets, a .pk3 or a renamed .zip will probably do but that will never keep serious criminals from stealing your artwork.
I figure this way, since the artists at Id, Epic, GarageGames etc. all has included their work of art contained in a simple to abuse form then why can't I ??
The person that want to steal my artwork is still violating the EULA he/she has agreed upon installing my game, and this is probably exactly how the pros think.
Besides, if someone wanted to use the stuff I made, hell, I'd be pretty proud !!!
Piazza-out
Jorg
05/01/2004 (11:32 pm)
Hey Dan, I think I can understand what you want to achieve behind door number two, and this issue has been discussed in other threads (I'm to lazy to link, I'll just give you the skinny), the outcome of those are that no matter what crazy tech you'll ever come up with it will be hacked. In the end all you have done is produced a security system so complicated that it has a negative impact on your games performance/usability.Sure, there are some easy way to produce the security you need to keep the casual straggler out of your assets, a .pk3 or a renamed .zip will probably do but that will never keep serious criminals from stealing your artwork.
I figure this way, since the artists at Id, Epic, GarageGames etc. all has included their work of art contained in a simple to abuse form then why can't I ??
The person that want to steal my artwork is still violating the EULA he/she has agreed upon installing my game, and this is probably exactly how the pros think.
Besides, if someone wanted to use the stuff I made, hell, I'd be pretty proud !!!
Piazza-out
Jorg
#7
The content is not protectable. The fact of the matter is that no matter what encryption you use you are also sending the decrypting tool (the game itself) and with a debugger it would not take someone long to figure it out.
Zip files are used because you don't have to unzip the entire file. You can actually select sections as the game needs it. Its really a matter of efficiency and not protecting the content.
One a side not if someone starts hacking the art files and stuff like that then you game is popular enough to be noticed (thats a good thing) and they are extending the playing time by doing stuff like that.
Keep the rules on the server and the rest will be modified wether you like it or not.
Later, Ben
05/02/2004 (1:15 pm)
Ya, I have to agree. The content is not protectable. The fact of the matter is that no matter what encryption you use you are also sending the decrypting tool (the game itself) and with a debugger it would not take someone long to figure it out.
Zip files are used because you don't have to unzip the entire file. You can actually select sections as the game needs it. Its really a matter of efficiency and not protecting the content.
One a side not if someone starts hacking the art files and stuff like that then you game is popular enough to be noticed (thats a good thing) and they are extending the playing time by doing stuff like that.
Keep the rules on the server and the rest will be modified wether you like it or not.
Later, Ben
#8
05/03/2004 (8:43 am)
Thank you all for your comments :) Duly noted! 
Torque Owner Stefan Lundmark
1) Just delete the server/scripts folder from the client distrubution and you should be fine. They won't have access to the core scripts powering your game, and they can't start any server of their own without rewriting the scripts from scratch.
1.5) I'm sure someone else has. We have, but we're using a database underneath that has a value, if the client doesn't have the same value or higher, it will tell the user to update. She can then chose yes or no and the updater will start.
2) Search forums ;) There are one crazy amount of threads on this one. It's the resource manager, and you can use it through zip's. I think Matthew Fairfax has got .pk3 support into the engine but this won't make anyone unable to hack your content out.
Good luck.