Please move #garagegames to a different IRC Network.
by Nelson Rush · in Torque Game Engine · 09/16/2001 (9:09 pm) · 10 replies
This is the second time I've been K-Lined from the mgonetwork IRC server because the IRCops there are powertripping.
Could we please move the #garagegames channel to a different IRC network, preferably one where the IRCops don't harass its users.
Could we please move the #garagegames channel to a different IRC network, preferably one where the IRCops don't harass its users.
About the author
#2
Rev_Fry
09/18/2001 (2:51 am)
irc.enterthegame.com would seem a logical place to move #garagegames. Just a thought.Rev_Fry
#3
09/18/2001 (3:13 am)
irc.gamesnet.net would be the best place. Its the most populated gaming irc server.
#4
09/20/2001 (11:40 pm)
All, I can say is that the klines both times came after complaints from other users, and Nelson was asked to stop his activity.
#5
The first time it happened a discussion about illegal drugs was occuring in the mgo-lobby, one which BTW I didn't even start. Everyone was denouncing marijuana and I pointed out that it was less dangerous than cigarettes or alcohol. I was banned for two reasons, longwalker likes cigarettes and tigger didn't like my opinion. I wasn't being rude, beligerant or insulting about it, though they were.
The second time I was klined for calling LongWalker a prick in the #garagegames channel. Now, slap me silly if I'm way off here, but that's going a little too far. At most it deserved a 10 minute or day long ban from the channel, not a permanent kline from the entire network. And even then there was no reason for either a ban or a kline since I didn't even know he was watching at the time. I had said it in response to another channel goer who was also hoping for a better bot in the channel, ie. "Yeah, longwalker won't fix the bot, he's a prick."
I paid my $100, I should get to converse on the IRC channel. The forums aren't enough, I need realtime conversations with real people to grasp the engine. And I should be able to have honest discussions without having to watch what I say around the IRCops.
09/21/2001 (2:45 pm)
That is a blatant lie. I have the logs to prove it.The first time it happened a discussion about illegal drugs was occuring in the mgo-lobby, one which BTW I didn't even start. Everyone was denouncing marijuana and I pointed out that it was less dangerous than cigarettes or alcohol. I was banned for two reasons, longwalker likes cigarettes and tigger didn't like my opinion. I wasn't being rude, beligerant or insulting about it, though they were.
The second time I was klined for calling LongWalker a prick in the #garagegames channel. Now, slap me silly if I'm way off here, but that's going a little too far. At most it deserved a 10 minute or day long ban from the channel, not a permanent kline from the entire network. And even then there was no reason for either a ban or a kline since I didn't even know he was watching at the time. I had said it in response to another channel goer who was also hoping for a better bot in the channel, ie. "Yeah, longwalker won't fix the bot, he's a prick."
I paid my $100, I should get to converse on the IRC channel. The forums aren't enough, I need realtime conversations with real people to grasp the engine. And I should be able to have honest discussions without having to watch what I say around the IRCops.
#6
The IRC channel is being provided by the MGO guys. It is not a right based on your $100 payment. Your $100 bought you the source code, the right to publish your game, and access to the private SDK forums. There is no promise of a chat system.
GarageGames is politically ambivalent to the goings on in the chat room, and we are not taking sides in this issue. If you have a problem with the way MGO is running the chat room, you are welcome to set up your own chat server and run the service yourself.
Sounds to me like you are having a problem with something that has absolutely nothing to do with software development anyway. Don't bring the amount you paid for the engine or the right to use the chat system into play in this argument.
Jeff Tunnell GG
09/22/2001 (3:19 am)
Nelson,The IRC channel is being provided by the MGO guys. It is not a right based on your $100 payment. Your $100 bought you the source code, the right to publish your game, and access to the private SDK forums. There is no promise of a chat system.
GarageGames is politically ambivalent to the goings on in the chat room, and we are not taking sides in this issue. If you have a problem with the way MGO is running the chat room, you are welcome to set up your own chat server and run the service yourself.
Sounds to me like you are having a problem with something that has absolutely nothing to do with software development anyway. Don't bring the amount you paid for the engine or the right to use the chat system into play in this argument.
Jeff Tunnell GG
#7
09/23/2001 (9:21 am)
A #garagegames channel could be created on any old irc server :)
#8
So you're saying I should sit in the corner and have a friendly chat with myself. Or are you suggesting that if I were to set an IRC server up GG would endorse it? Or, rather, are you saying I should bury it in the resource section and talk to my eggdrop?
Really though, it has everything to do with development. I was participating in engine and scripting discussions in that channel. I've been helping others and they've been helping me. The forums are hard to follow and do not help with immediate situations. And even though I do participate in the forums I have found the IRC channel to be much more useful. The server change needs to be an official announcement w/URL link or no one is going to visit it. And directing people to multiple IRC networks isn't going to help either, there are already too few developers conversing on the MGO network as it is.
Obviously this was something someone (maybe not you Jeff) at GarageGames cared about or they wouldn't have mentioned an IRC channel at all. And it is helpful, and I do agree it needs to be moderated. But klines should always be a last resort, these IRCops at MGO throw them around like they don't mean anything. This *is* something GarageGames should care about, whether or not its in the license agreement. The faster and more efficiently we learn the engine and help others to do so the vastly larger number of high quality games will be produced with Torque (i like the name change). If you're indifferent about this, then you're also indifferent about your own success. IMHO this is a bad policy and GG should care.
Furthermore, if you guys aren't willing to consider a server change at least consider talking to the IRCops at MGO and asking them to keep their noses level with the rest of us.
Thank you for your interest in my dilemma, by the way. I know I'm only one person among the many who bought your engine and I must seem insignificant. Its people like you who really make a difference.
09/23/2001 (9:49 am)
"...If you have a problem with the way MGO is running the chat room, you are welcome to set up your own chat server and run the service yourself..."So you're saying I should sit in the corner and have a friendly chat with myself. Or are you suggesting that if I were to set an IRC server up GG would endorse it? Or, rather, are you saying I should bury it in the resource section and talk to my eggdrop?
Really though, it has everything to do with development. I was participating in engine and scripting discussions in that channel. I've been helping others and they've been helping me. The forums are hard to follow and do not help with immediate situations. And even though I do participate in the forums I have found the IRC channel to be much more useful. The server change needs to be an official announcement w/URL link or no one is going to visit it. And directing people to multiple IRC networks isn't going to help either, there are already too few developers conversing on the MGO network as it is.
Obviously this was something someone (maybe not you Jeff) at GarageGames cared about or they wouldn't have mentioned an IRC channel at all. And it is helpful, and I do agree it needs to be moderated. But klines should always be a last resort, these IRCops at MGO throw them around like they don't mean anything. This *is* something GarageGames should care about, whether or not its in the license agreement. The faster and more efficiently we learn the engine and help others to do so the vastly larger number of high quality games will be produced with Torque (i like the name change). If you're indifferent about this, then you're also indifferent about your own success. IMHO this is a bad policy and GG should care.
Furthermore, if you guys aren't willing to consider a server change at least consider talking to the IRCops at MGO and asking them to keep their noses level with the rest of us.
Thank you for your interest in my dilemma, by the way. I know I'm only one person among the many who bought your engine and I must seem insignificant. Its people like you who really make a difference.
#9
None of our customers are insignificant to us. However, I have to stand by my statements regarding chat. I talked over your issues with the partners, and decided that we are happy with the job the MGO guys are doing, and most of the other people using the service feel the same way. You guys need to learn to get along. Our job is not be be referees, but to provide technology.
Jeff Tunnell GG
09/23/2001 (10:18 am)
Nelson,None of our customers are insignificant to us. However, I have to stand by my statements regarding chat. I talked over your issues with the partners, and decided that we are happy with the job the MGO guys are doing, and most of the other people using the service feel the same way. You guys need to learn to get along. Our job is not be be referees, but to provide technology.
Jeff Tunnell GG
#10
There is really no reason for me to continue work on this engine if my progress is going to be impede by maniacal IRC operators and apathetic "technology providers". There are much more useful uses for $100.
Please let me know who I can contact, and if that includes the additional $14 S/H for the CD I never recieved.
09/24/2001 (3:17 pm)
Can I get a refund then?There is really no reason for me to continue work on this engine if my progress is going to be impede by maniacal IRC operators and apathetic "technology providers". There are much more useful uses for $100.
Please let me know who I can contact, and if that includes the additional $14 S/H for the CD I never recieved.
Torque Owner Edward Gardner