GameSpace mapExporter problems
by Robby Cannon · in Artist Corner · 04/22/2004 (2:01 pm) · 12 replies
I'm not sure where to ask for help on this, so I'll start here.
I'm using gameSpace 1.5 and the mapExporter from DigitalFlux.
All I'm trying to do is export a simple cube. It's not skewed or distorted in any way, just a plain square cube with a single texture.
It exports from gameSpace, but the .map file that is generated is unusable anywhere.
When I try to open the .map file in Quark, I get the error "Floating Point Division By Zero".
When I try to feed it into map2dif, I get the error "Error, degenerate plane (colinear points)"
After doing some searching on the forums, I've found some rather dated posts regarding the error that map2dif gives, and the general response has been that 2 verts are too close to one another. So I resized the cube to be rather large. There's no way that any of it's 8 verts are too close together. Same errors. The cube is properly tagged as a brush. It is the only existing object, thus the only object tagged.
I realize that mapExporter and gamespace are both still maturing and bugs are to be expected, but I didn't see any harm in inquiring.
I'm really hoping that I'm doing something wrong. I'd be so nice to model and map in the same program.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I'm using gameSpace 1.5 and the mapExporter from DigitalFlux.
All I'm trying to do is export a simple cube. It's not skewed or distorted in any way, just a plain square cube with a single texture.
It exports from gameSpace, but the .map file that is generated is unusable anywhere.
When I try to open the .map file in Quark, I get the error "Floating Point Division By Zero".
When I try to feed it into map2dif, I get the error "Error, degenerate plane (colinear points)"
After doing some searching on the forums, I've found some rather dated posts regarding the error that map2dif gives, and the general response has been that 2 verts are too close to one another. So I resized the cube to be rather large. There's no way that any of it's 8 verts are too close together. Same errors. The cube is properly tagged as a brush. It is the only existing object, thus the only object tagged.
I realize that mapExporter and gamespace are both still maturing and bugs are to be expected, but I didn't see any harm in inquiring.
I'm really hoping that I'm doing something wrong. I'd be so nice to model and map in the same program.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
About the author
#2
04/22/2004 (2:55 pm)
Actually, the problem is a wrong version that was sent to Caligari. That's being corrected, and I'll email you the correct tsx version straight away. Sorry for the inconvenience.
#4
@All: The fix for geometry scaling bug will be in Caligari's hands around Sunday, reason being that I've stumbled across one more thing, and I'd rather not have everyone have to get multiple emails. If you need it as an emergency, email me, and I'll get you the newer tsx(after verifying your purchase of course).
Time to get to the day-job... :/
04/23/2004 (11:01 am)
Thanks Rob... :)@All: The fix for geometry scaling bug will be in Caligari's hands around Sunday, reason being that I've stumbled across one more thing, and I'd rather not have everyone have to get multiple emails. If you need it as an emergency, email me, and I'll get you the newer tsx(after verifying your purchase of course).
Time to get to the day-job... :/
#5
Great work!
IT WORKS!
@Rob: Mine works great also. We get to brag for at least a week, don't we? Poeple need to hurry up and get it before the end of the month.
04/23/2004 (6:20 pm)
I just want to Thank Ted for his support with the map exporter.Great work!
IT WORKS!
@Rob: Mine works great also. We get to brag for at least a week, don't we? Poeple need to hurry up and get it before the end of the month.
#6
Here the simple test (but everything I've tried exporting fails the same way):
1. Launch Gamespace and create a new scene.
2. Create a simple Cube (manually created) - no rounded corners or anything fancy.
3. Select material editor, go to color shader, right click and choose any texture (I tried "clouds").
4. Apply texture to object.
5. Click the mapExporter icon and tag the object as a brush.
6. Save everything.
7. Click MAP Export.
I get two errors, the second comes after I click "Abort" (actually, there's a generic "could not read address ..." that comes in between).
Any ideas? Need more info? :)
-Nerseus
06/09/2004 (9:33 pm)
I've just purchased the mapExporter and I'm trying it out in Gamespace 1.5 SP1 but I get an ASSERT (C++) when I choose to export. I'm using build 1001 of mapExporter - I bought it/downloaded it from Caligari's download page.Here the simple test (but everything I've tried exporting fails the same way):
1. Launch Gamespace and create a new scene.
2. Create a simple Cube (manually created) - no rounded corners or anything fancy.
3. Select material editor, go to color shader, right click and choose any texture (I tried "clouds").
4. Apply texture to object.
5. Click the mapExporter icon and tag the object as a brush.
6. Save everything.
7. Click MAP Export.
I get two errors, the second comes after I click "Abort" (actually, there's a generic "could not read address ..." that comes in between).
Any ideas? Need more info? :)
-Nerseus
#7
It appears as though my use of "clouds" is just a color "shader" and not a texture map. I *knew* that the exporter required a texture not just a color, but I didn't realize that the "clouds" material wasn't a texture. After using a texture map (wood1), the export works successfully.
A few issues later (trying to get the -t option to work correctly and figuring out that -o is a *required* option) and I have a dif file. Now I'm getting an error when trying to add it to a mission...
I have it in a subfolder off of interiors with appropriate subfolders and file of "gamespace15\textures\wood1.jpg"). It immediately boots me out of the "game" with a dialog stating that I do not have the correct version of the FPS starter kit or the related art.
I'm guessing something is amiss with my texture and/or folders, but this time I'm truly going to bed and NOT debugging any more tonight.
For those interested, here's the layout:
...\interiors\rescue\map\test3.dif
...\interiors\rescue\map\gamespace15\textures\wood1.jpg
Again, the test3.dif has texture references that appear to be "gamespace15\textures\wood1".
-Nerseus
06/09/2004 (10:08 pm)
Ugh - I hate posting a problem then a solution just a short time later. I had planned on going to bed and looking at it tomorrow in the hopes that someone else would know what I did wrong, but I hate leaving issues hanging and now I stayed up too late and have it solved...It appears as though my use of "clouds" is just a color "shader" and not a texture map. I *knew* that the exporter required a texture not just a color, but I didn't realize that the "clouds" material wasn't a texture. After using a texture map (wood1), the export works successfully.
A few issues later (trying to get the -t option to work correctly and figuring out that -o is a *required* option) and I have a dif file. Now I'm getting an error when trying to add it to a mission...
I have it in a subfolder off of interiors with appropriate subfolders and file of "gamespace15\textures\wood1.jpg"). It immediately boots me out of the "game" with a dialog stating that I do not have the correct version of the FPS starter kit or the related art.
I'm guessing something is amiss with my texture and/or folders, but this time I'm truly going to bed and NOT debugging any more tonight.
For those interested, here's the layout:
...\interiors\rescue\map\test3.dif
...\interiors\rescue\map\gamespace15\textures\wood1.jpg
Again, the test3.dif has texture references that appear to be "gamespace15\textures\wood1".
-Nerseus
#8
06/10/2004 (4:50 am)
We have been using the mapExporter also. We've been putting the textures in the \interiors directory. I'm not sure if we've had to do anything special for the textures to be found there or not.
#9
@Eustacia: Yes, I do use UV Cow for UV mapping. The included one just isn't worth using. I use it for the DTS objects, since map's don't use the uv coordinates the same way.
06/10/2004 (5:51 am)
@Dan: The textures should be either in the same directory or one level up. I put all the textures one or two levels up so all the DTS and DIF objects can share them myself.@Eustacia: Yes, I do use UV Cow for UV mapping. The included one just isn't worth using. I use it for the DTS objects, since map's don't use the uv coordinates the same way.
#10
06/10/2004 (2:27 pm)
Can you use ultimate unwrap3d with gamespace? and is there any problems with using it?
#11
Thanks for taking the time to put together the exporter! I can't wait to start "playing" with it some more, soon...
-ner
06/10/2004 (8:39 pm)
@Ted: I got things worked out. I looked into some DIFs I had created a few months ago (from Quark, the last time I tried creating DIFs before I had Gamespace) and figured out where the textures should go (up one from the DIF file in my case). I also remembered that to use a JPG, you must supply a couple of versions with special names. So when my DIF wants the texture "wood1" I need "wood1.png" or "wood1_x.jpg" - I forget what the "x" letter is. It didn't matter since I wanted to use png anyway, for the alpha channel.Thanks for taking the time to put together the exporter! I can't wait to start "playing" with it some more, soon...
-ner
#12
First off, it works pretty well once you've gotten everything "right". Apparently getting a model (DIF) into Torque isn't quite as simple as: model, export, add item to mission. There are a LOT of rules to follow before getting things "in-game". It's too bad there's not a simpler, less error prone workflow to help get content into the engine.
I'm doing pretty good at getting models in GS through the mapExporter and then into DIF format and getting them to show up in Torque.
The main problem I have now is trying to get "clean" models in GS. The only sample I've seen for making a "level" is the one provided by Ted at DigitalFlux.com. While it will get you started with a simple room, there are a lot of drawbacks to Ted's tutorial. Granted, it's a first pass, but it could use a good follow up or two. NOT that this is Ted's responsibility - just pointing out the lack of a good "level" tutorial for Gamespace.
The main problem is that Gamespace is meant to modify things visually - not get things fitted properly, making nice tight connections between "walls". I turned on grid snap to get some better results, but it's still quite easy to get maps with little gaps between walls. For comparison, after spending an equivalent 2 days in Quark, getting a MAP in Torque was a lot easier, less error prone, and generally a little nice. The Quark editor allowed me to see the textures in the editor as they'd appear the game. It also exported directly to DIF and when something was amiss, the errors in Quark were a little more helpful (after subtracting some faces, the polys would show "cracks", alerting me to the problem).
I'm hoping/assuming that many of these issues will be corrected over time. As it is GS is still VERY new and the exporters are, too. In time, I'd like to see a lot of new features, as I'm sure would ALL gs users. Hopefully as more people start using GS to do modelling, the exporters will increase in features.
At this stage, I'd give the mapExporter a 7 out of 10. To get it up to a 10, it would have to have a few more features:
1. Better representation of the textures within GS. Not sure if this is possible. The Greenbriar version claims to have in-editor UV mapping working, but I have YET to export even the simplest of MAP files using their exporter and getting map2dif to run against it.
2. Better error checking. Right now, if things aren't just right, GS throws an exception. That could mean missing textures on a tagged brush, attaching "OL-" to pretty much any light (I assume these lights don't work?), and a few other misc problems that I haven't tracked down (trying to follow the 3rd "stair" sample provided by Ted, using subtraction of some "stairs" with a cube).
3. Better UI for the exporter. A few "nice" features such as tagging multiple brushes at once (highlight 6 cubes in the scene editor and press the Make Brush button only tags one with "BR-". Also, on a successfuly export, a MessageBox would be helpful. Because of the problems noted in 2. above, it may look like a good export, but 3 or 4 seconds after the "Map Export" is "done", I'll get an exception.
4. A short tutorial or two on using map2dif. There are a number of "tricks" to using map2dif correctly to both export a DIF and to get that DIF into Torque. For someone like me who is only using GameSpace, I've had to a bit of reading about the 3DS Max exporter to read up on what some features of map2dif do. The map2dif "spec" provided some more help, but all that "digging for info" would be nice to have as links in the mapExporter documentation.
Just a few thoughts on the state of the exporter after a few short days use. As with many aspects of Torque, it's still a bit rough around the edges. I'm sure, in time, I'll learn more about the do's and dont's of the process of getting things into Torque.
-Nerseus
06/12/2004 (10:23 pm)
Whew - I've had a chance to use the mapExporter for a few days now and it looks a LOT better than the Greenbriar version I received when I bought Gamespace.First off, it works pretty well once you've gotten everything "right". Apparently getting a model (DIF) into Torque isn't quite as simple as: model, export, add item to mission. There are a LOT of rules to follow before getting things "in-game". It's too bad there's not a simpler, less error prone workflow to help get content into the engine.
I'm doing pretty good at getting models in GS through the mapExporter and then into DIF format and getting them to show up in Torque.
The main problem I have now is trying to get "clean" models in GS. The only sample I've seen for making a "level" is the one provided by Ted at DigitalFlux.com. While it will get you started with a simple room, there are a lot of drawbacks to Ted's tutorial. Granted, it's a first pass, but it could use a good follow up or two. NOT that this is Ted's responsibility - just pointing out the lack of a good "level" tutorial for Gamespace.
The main problem is that Gamespace is meant to modify things visually - not get things fitted properly, making nice tight connections between "walls". I turned on grid snap to get some better results, but it's still quite easy to get maps with little gaps between walls. For comparison, after spending an equivalent 2 days in Quark, getting a MAP in Torque was a lot easier, less error prone, and generally a little nice. The Quark editor allowed me to see the textures in the editor as they'd appear the game. It also exported directly to DIF and when something was amiss, the errors in Quark were a little more helpful (after subtracting some faces, the polys would show "cracks", alerting me to the problem).
I'm hoping/assuming that many of these issues will be corrected over time. As it is GS is still VERY new and the exporters are, too. In time, I'd like to see a lot of new features, as I'm sure would ALL gs users. Hopefully as more people start using GS to do modelling, the exporters will increase in features.
At this stage, I'd give the mapExporter a 7 out of 10. To get it up to a 10, it would have to have a few more features:
1. Better representation of the textures within GS. Not sure if this is possible. The Greenbriar version claims to have in-editor UV mapping working, but I have YET to export even the simplest of MAP files using their exporter and getting map2dif to run against it.
2. Better error checking. Right now, if things aren't just right, GS throws an exception. That could mean missing textures on a tagged brush, attaching "OL-" to pretty much any light (I assume these lights don't work?), and a few other misc problems that I haven't tracked down (trying to follow the 3rd "stair" sample provided by Ted, using subtraction of some "stairs" with a cube).
3. Better UI for the exporter. A few "nice" features such as tagging multiple brushes at once (highlight 6 cubes in the scene editor and press the Make Brush button only tags one with "BR-". Also, on a successfuly export, a MessageBox would be helpful. Because of the problems noted in 2. above, it may look like a good export, but 3 or 4 seconds after the "Map Export" is "done", I'll get an exception.
4. A short tutorial or two on using map2dif. There are a number of "tricks" to using map2dif correctly to both export a DIF and to get that DIF into Torque. For someone like me who is only using GameSpace, I've had to a bit of reading about the 3DS Max exporter to read up on what some features of map2dif do. The map2dif "spec" provided some more help, but all that "digging for info" would be nice to have as links in the mapExporter documentation.
Just a few thoughts on the state of the exporter after a few short days use. As with many aspects of Torque, it's still a bit rough around the edges. I'm sure, in time, I'll learn more about the do's and dont's of the process of getting things into Torque.
-Nerseus
Torque Owner George McBay
Which is a shame because it sounds great in theory and I still think the #1 problem with Torque is lack of decent & halfway affordable tool support.