Animation engine, making it a lot easier
by Christian "Xtian" Jacquet · in Artist Corner · 04/14/2004 (7:28 am) · 5 replies
Dear guys.
I might be calling for what's already exist, please bare with me and
my ignorance.
To develop a game takes a lot of hard work, which I'm sure most of you are
very familiar with.
What strikes me, as a professional programmer and tester for 20+ years, is
that the development environment I've seen so far for all games consist of
so many expensive programs that hardly fits together.
I'm in no way knowledgeable of the torque engine or its development
environment, but from what I read here today, it sounds like it is hardly
any better integrated than anything else.
With that I am NOT saying the torque engine is bad, not at all, just that
I don't understand why no one cares to look at the whole environment when
it comes to game development.
Some people use milkshape, like myself. It works for simple things but
not more. and then we need Photoshop or something similar, and we need
some level designer and some sound software and nothing fits well
together and all programs look and feel very different.
I'd like to see a complete development environment.
There is Milkshape that's cheap, and blender that is free.
There is GIMP that is also free, and there are plenty of free sound tools.
There are free level designers, like quale too, and on top of that we have
this versatile game engine Torque that is as cheap as they can come.
Hasn't anyone seen the benefits of incorporating all these software
packages under one roof ?
And then we have animation, something that require advanced artistic skills
that unfortunately very few of us are blessed with.
I've been working for a while now on an animation tool that can more or
less completely automate the animation process.
How does that sound?
What's needed is some enhancements to Milkshape skeletton definition,
a basic setup of movements characteristics (that of course can be adjusted
or completely rewritten by anyone with those skills).
It's basically a form to describe how bones and joints interact, and
some parameters that define the bones purpose.
The rest, the actual animation, can be done by the game engine.
My work is strictly conceptual, a growing word document decribing all
new parameters and how they should be interpreted by the game engine.
IFAIK these automated animations should not slow down any computer much
if at all, since they are all pretty simple mathematical equations.
It's not a new physics engine, or rag doll engine.
It's a far less complicated animation engine that would make it possible to
design a 8 legged spider that knows how to walk, run, jump, attack,
defend itself and...die.
This animation engine can be used for basically anything from bipedal
humanids to dogs, to flesh eating plants, snakes, aliens with two heads
and even large machinery and robots.
But, I probably lack the skills to code it, both the additions needed for
Milkshape or the game engine.
But is anyone interrested?
Is anyone thinking about the whole game design process here?
It's great, as I see it, that you can buy this Torque engine for so little
cash, but if you can't put it in a car it wont take you anywhere.
The big guns in game development has lost its grip on what the market,
us gamers, what we want.
I see the future where small teams or even single persons develop their
own complete games.
Games that begun as a dream in their heart.
Games that today never gets done due to the monopoly situation.
IMO, what's needed now is not a lot of more eye candy directX next effects.
What we need are games that are written from the heart.
Games with a soul, with a purpose, built on a dream.
It's those games that made it in the past and it is those games that
doesn't get developed today.
Do you think I am crazy or do you agree?
Just think about it.
A game development environment that is so well integrated that you only need
to learn ONE tool, and where ONE single guy with a dream can create a great game.
Well, I have that dream.
Please post your comments.
Sincerely
/Xtian
I might be calling for what's already exist, please bare with me and
my ignorance.
To develop a game takes a lot of hard work, which I'm sure most of you are
very familiar with.
What strikes me, as a professional programmer and tester for 20+ years, is
that the development environment I've seen so far for all games consist of
so many expensive programs that hardly fits together.
I'm in no way knowledgeable of the torque engine or its development
environment, but from what I read here today, it sounds like it is hardly
any better integrated than anything else.
With that I am NOT saying the torque engine is bad, not at all, just that
I don't understand why no one cares to look at the whole environment when
it comes to game development.
Some people use milkshape, like myself. It works for simple things but
not more. and then we need Photoshop or something similar, and we need
some level designer and some sound software and nothing fits well
together and all programs look and feel very different.
I'd like to see a complete development environment.
There is Milkshape that's cheap, and blender that is free.
There is GIMP that is also free, and there are plenty of free sound tools.
There are free level designers, like quale too, and on top of that we have
this versatile game engine Torque that is as cheap as they can come.
Hasn't anyone seen the benefits of incorporating all these software
packages under one roof ?
And then we have animation, something that require advanced artistic skills
that unfortunately very few of us are blessed with.
I've been working for a while now on an animation tool that can more or
less completely automate the animation process.
How does that sound?
What's needed is some enhancements to Milkshape skeletton definition,
a basic setup of movements characteristics (that of course can be adjusted
or completely rewritten by anyone with those skills).
It's basically a form to describe how bones and joints interact, and
some parameters that define the bones purpose.
The rest, the actual animation, can be done by the game engine.
My work is strictly conceptual, a growing word document decribing all
new parameters and how they should be interpreted by the game engine.
IFAIK these automated animations should not slow down any computer much
if at all, since they are all pretty simple mathematical equations.
It's not a new physics engine, or rag doll engine.
It's a far less complicated animation engine that would make it possible to
design a 8 legged spider that knows how to walk, run, jump, attack,
defend itself and...die.
This animation engine can be used for basically anything from bipedal
humanids to dogs, to flesh eating plants, snakes, aliens with two heads
and even large machinery and robots.
But, I probably lack the skills to code it, both the additions needed for
Milkshape or the game engine.
But is anyone interrested?
Is anyone thinking about the whole game design process here?
It's great, as I see it, that you can buy this Torque engine for so little
cash, but if you can't put it in a car it wont take you anywhere.
The big guns in game development has lost its grip on what the market,
us gamers, what we want.
I see the future where small teams or even single persons develop their
own complete games.
Games that begun as a dream in their heart.
Games that today never gets done due to the monopoly situation.
IMO, what's needed now is not a lot of more eye candy directX next effects.
What we need are games that are written from the heart.
Games with a soul, with a purpose, built on a dream.
It's those games that made it in the past and it is those games that
doesn't get developed today.
Do you think I am crazy or do you agree?
Just think about it.
A game development environment that is so well integrated that you only need
to learn ONE tool, and where ONE single guy with a dream can create a great game.
Well, I have that dream.
Please post your comments.
Sincerely
/Xtian
About the author
Recent Threads
#2
Some of the features in an all in one intergated package: modeler, level editor, particle engine, scripting engine, sound engine, and animation for a few. Also, it will use the features of that engine being used...ie.,Torque, Crystalspace. The main thing is all your tools will be in one package to use with the engine you choose to use and to keep it at a low price.
Please let me know what features you would want and specific tools you would like to see in it. Basically a wish list!
04/14/2004 (3:27 pm)
@Christian: I have been thinking about this since 2001 when I bought Torque(it was the V12 back then). I am in the startup and design phase of a "game engine intergration system" since last month. I have been researching other game engines for more than a year now. The biggest thing that I have seen is that people like certain features of that engine they use. The same goes with the tools they use. Just as I use several paint programs... I like this feature on one and another on a different program. The thing that I'm working on now is what features do I want to have and what will other people want. My main goal is to make it so that it can be used with other engines,not just Torque. I am working on other projects as well, so this may take several years to work on. Lots of people are making different exporters for their favorite tools now. Some you might have to buy,some free. But my goal is to create a complete "game engine intergation system" for under $200. Maybe it will be a big flop...maybe a big hit...maybe it can't be done....but I'm going to try anyways. Some of the features in an all in one intergated package: modeler, level editor, particle engine, scripting engine, sound engine, and animation for a few. Also, it will use the features of that engine being used...ie.,Torque, Crystalspace. The main thing is all your tools will be in one package to use with the engine you choose to use and to keep it at a low price.
Please let me know what features you would want and specific tools you would like to see in it. Basically a wish list!
#3
I know that it is impossible to make the one tool that does it all for everybody.
I don't think it has to be able to do everything.
As a game designer, just like any designer, you have to face the fact some things
are definitely or close to impossible. Then you have to consult your creativity
and common sense to question if that particular thing you want is absolutely
essential for your game, and if it is, can it be done in some other ways.
Like in the old HalfLife engine, materials could not be reflective and it was
impossible to have a mirror like shining effect on that nice marble floor you
just made. But, did you really need it? Would the game loose it's soul because
of this limitation? In most cases the answer will be no.
And, being a little creative, you could do some quite simple tricks to make the
floor appear like it had a mirror effect on it. It wasn't perfect, but good enough.
That was a long time ago, that the Half Life engine hit the market, but people
still make games with it. Sure, I like to have better detailed textures,
bump mapping, fog effects and other goodies found in all new games, but I
don't need to be able to do ANYTHING.
A game is an adventure, not a piece of art!
-------------------------------------------
What makes a game great is if it has a soul, if it is interresting to play,
if it gives you a great adventure.
That's why I believe an animation engine is possible. It will have limitations,
it will not simulate movements perfectly, it will look more or less artificial
compared to what skilled artists with unlimited cash can do, but it will be
good enough.
I like your project!
Are you working alone on this ?
I will continue the work of my animation engine.
I begun with a feasability study during sleepless nights, and it passed that.
I've not finished the functional description of it yet, but I will, and then
I'll start thinking about how to implement it.
I'm not sure my programming skills are enough to actually turn the implementation
flow-chart into code though. I suck at C++ as we use proprietary languages at my work.
I'd be happy to join a team of people who work together to create a development
environment for games, like you do.
To be realistic, all team members must understand that whatever the outcome
will be, it wont fit everybody. That's something you just have to live with.
But if a team manage to create a integrated development environment it will be
better than anything out there, because there is nothing out there now.
/Xtian
04/15/2004 (12:44 am)
@Mark Barner.I know that it is impossible to make the one tool that does it all for everybody.
I don't think it has to be able to do everything.
As a game designer, just like any designer, you have to face the fact some things
are definitely or close to impossible. Then you have to consult your creativity
and common sense to question if that particular thing you want is absolutely
essential for your game, and if it is, can it be done in some other ways.
Like in the old HalfLife engine, materials could not be reflective and it was
impossible to have a mirror like shining effect on that nice marble floor you
just made. But, did you really need it? Would the game loose it's soul because
of this limitation? In most cases the answer will be no.
And, being a little creative, you could do some quite simple tricks to make the
floor appear like it had a mirror effect on it. It wasn't perfect, but good enough.
That was a long time ago, that the Half Life engine hit the market, but people
still make games with it. Sure, I like to have better detailed textures,
bump mapping, fog effects and other goodies found in all new games, but I
don't need to be able to do ANYTHING.
A game is an adventure, not a piece of art!
-------------------------------------------
What makes a game great is if it has a soul, if it is interresting to play,
if it gives you a great adventure.
That's why I believe an animation engine is possible. It will have limitations,
it will not simulate movements perfectly, it will look more or less artificial
compared to what skilled artists with unlimited cash can do, but it will be
good enough.
I like your project!
Are you working alone on this ?
I will continue the work of my animation engine.
I begun with a feasability study during sleepless nights, and it passed that.
I've not finished the functional description of it yet, but I will, and then
I'll start thinking about how to implement it.
I'm not sure my programming skills are enough to actually turn the implementation
flow-chart into code though. I suck at C++ as we use proprietary languages at my work.
I'd be happy to join a team of people who work together to create a development
environment for games, like you do.
To be realistic, all team members must understand that whatever the outcome
will be, it wont fit everybody. That's something you just have to live with.
But if a team manage to create a integrated development environment it will be
better than anything out there, because there is nothing out there now.
/Xtian
#4
If you open a Dictionary a game and even playing a game is art.
Here is the Def:
art: 1. Human creativity 2. Skill 3. any specific skill or it's application 4. any craft or it's principles 5.creative work or it's principles 6. Sly trick.
04/29/2004 (8:39 am)
Quote:A game is an adventure, not a piece of art!To make a comment like this is to answer without actually knowing.
If you open a Dictionary a game and even playing a game is art.
Here is the Def:
art: 1. Human creativity 2. Skill 3. any specific skill or it's application 4. any craft or it's principles 5.creative work or it's principles 6. Sly trick.
#5
06/02/2004 (2:59 am)
Quote:I've been working for a while now on an animation tool that can more orWheres the demo then?
less completely automate the animation process.
How does that sound?
Torque Owner Alex Swanson
If you really have equations that can predict how all this different bone structures will act and interact, you should publish a paper to a graphics or computer science journal. Perhaps some company or university research firm could write an application based on these theories.
Having a truly integrated toolkit is the dream of all developers, I'm sure. Small teams are even now able to complete their own games - but the tools are still a confused jumble. Even the professional studios have to work with such confused toolkits. Computer Game technology is constantly pushing the edge of what computers are capable of. New techniques and tricks are constantly being added, and with them the need for new tools. Even within an individual game there is often the need for customized content creation tools tailored to that game's needs.
While a "perfect" toolkit like you describe is the eventual holy grail of game design, to does not exist, and would take a tremendous amount of resources and redundant effort to create. Yet, great games do get made, and existing tools do slowly improve. What is needed more than integrated tools is good leader who are capable of forming a team of individuals whose talent and passion will make the creation of a great game possible. It can be done, the tools exist, and they are the best we have.