Challenge: Shaders crucial to gameplay

#61 Just adding my 2 cents over here...

Beside being a game programmer with a computer science background I'm also a moviemaker and directed some films. This gave me a good experience about Project development&managment and Audiovisual language.

4 years ago, when Apple launched it's Mac OS X. I was outraged on how it implemented TONS of eycandy stuff and just dumped several functions that were present in the previous system. Now I noticed how I was wrong back then.Yes, the system has evolved but some functions are still lost. But what the eyecandy does is that it provides a more "cozy" way of interfacing with the computer. This "cozyness" does have an impact on your productivity.

The same applies to games. Gameplay isn't the only thing important to a game, anymore. People want to BE inside the game, they want to be part of the machine, they want to be part of the STORY. That is acomplished not by changing the gameplay, but by changing the way you TELL the story.

Let me throw in some examples : Alien Vs. Predator and XIII. They are both FPS and I'm not really a FPS fan, but both these games caught my attention. The gameplay in both is essentially the same, you run, shoot, duck, get a key, open doors, solve some easy puzzles to get you to the next phase BUT : in AvP, there is an alert sound, mixed with dimmed lighting that really made me scared to hell. In XIII the visual language is awesome, it really reminds me of reading a comic book.

When you go to a restaurant and order a steak with french fries, there is a big difference, in price and in pleasure, from having it in a diner on the corner or going to a fancy restaurant and having Steak au poivre and rosti potatoes. But for your stomach there is no difference at all. Its just proteins and carbs. For your stomach, you could also put everything in a blender, and drink it as a beverage that would make no difference.

Having a shader as part of your gameplay is not as important as having a shader being part of the game itself.

#62

Quote:Can you come up with game ideas where TSE-like (graphical?) shaders are crucial to gameplay?

Interesting question.

The only way that the rendering capabilities of shader technology can be made to be "crucial" or necessary to gameplay is if it is used to create visuals that communicate gameplay-relevant information.

In other words, information that you absolutely need to make decisions to play.

So, in this context, this information can only be communicated through visuals that are produced using shader technology. So, logically, the question can be put, what kind of visual can only be made using shader technolgy?

The answer is there isn't any.

Why? Because any visuals that are made as a result of using shaders can be described in other ways.

There is nothing that you can render using shaders that cannot be pre-rendered or done in 2D, i.e. using old technolgy.

Furthermore, the information in a scene or visual can also be communicated using text or sound.

However, if you re-word the question as follows...

Can you come up with game ideas where TSE-like (graphical?) shaders are crucial to gameplay ...in a real-time, high-performance, photo-realistic, 3D environment?

...then, in this case, I can offer one idea.

It would be to use the bloom effect, like in Slpinter Cell.

For example, you see a grate high up in the wall ahead of you and light is bleeding through at an angle. This tells you that beyond that wall is the way out of the dungeon. You need to know that because you need to escape to win the game. It also tells you the approximate time of day by the angle of the light streaming through. You need to know that because the orcs come out at night and the only way to defeat them is with flame arrows which you'll need to get. The brightness and color of the light tells you what the weather is like outside. You need to know that because if it's raining outside then your flame arrows won't work against the orcs and you'll have to find the magical invisibility cape so you can sneak past the orcs instead of fighting them... and so on.

So, it is fair to say that the information that can be gathered from this visual effect is crucial to gameplay. Right?

Okay... and because only the latest shader technolgy can create this bloom effect in a real-time, high-performance, photo-realistic, 3D environment, we can thusly conclude that this *is* "an idea where TSE-like (graphical?) shaders are crucial to gameplay"

Questions? Comments? Smart remarks?

:)

#63 I think trying to encorporate something into gameplay will probably end up ruining the game. Like saying We need to have the shaders crucial to gameplay, I doubt you'll be able to find a really fun way to make them crucial...

#64 THANKS =)

Quote:Wouldn't it be funny if God had this kind of a conversation about including one of the human senses? Like sight. Hmmm... do they really NEED to see? They would have to move slower, but they could do without. Sight isn't ABSOLUTELY neccessary... is it? What about smell... or touch... do they need touch? Maybe taste is a waste. Yeah. Taste is a waste... let's keep the rest and get rid of taste. They don't need it to eat. Maybe a little, but for the most part they could get by. Wait. Let's keep everything, BUT let's make one of the sexes want to reproduce more than the other. That will be fun to watch!

LOL