Making Torque better for modders
by Ian Omroth Hardingham · in General Discussion · 03/16/2004 (3:14 am) · 11 replies
Hey everyone,
we were talking on IRC the other day about the benefits of modding an existing game rather than using Torque for your mod project. My opinion is as follows: when you start modding a game such as tribes or UT, you have a game. You can immediately prototype a new gameplay idea and have it working pretty quickly with the existing models, weapons, and levels. This early success drives you on to work on other parts of the game content.
I think the problem with Torque is there's too much of a lead time until you start seeing results. For someone new to the engine getting anything as simple as an instant hit weapon working can take quite a long time. Now, if you're making a game and you give up because it took a while to get something working then you clearly weren't going to finish a game anyway. However, mod authors will release progressive betas and get spurred on by any success they have. Without this early encouragement, they will give up.
On to the point: I think Torque would benefit greatly from a set of standard fps weapons: a pistol, a grenade launcher, a rocket launcher, a sniper rifle, a shotgun, an uzi. Now GG are clearly too busy to get this done, but if someone out there has some time and would like to help Torque become better for modders, compiling those weapons from resources and experience and putting them in a seperate mod in a cohesive style might make a big difference.
My 2 cents :)
Ian
Mode 7 Games
we were talking on IRC the other day about the benefits of modding an existing game rather than using Torque for your mod project. My opinion is as follows: when you start modding a game such as tribes or UT, you have a game. You can immediately prototype a new gameplay idea and have it working pretty quickly with the existing models, weapons, and levels. This early success drives you on to work on other parts of the game content.
I think the problem with Torque is there's too much of a lead time until you start seeing results. For someone new to the engine getting anything as simple as an instant hit weapon working can take quite a long time. Now, if you're making a game and you give up because it took a while to get something working then you clearly weren't going to finish a game anyway. However, mod authors will release progressive betas and get spurred on by any success they have. Without this early encouragement, they will give up.
On to the point: I think Torque would benefit greatly from a set of standard fps weapons: a pistol, a grenade launcher, a rocket launcher, a sniper rifle, a shotgun, an uzi. Now GG are clearly too busy to get this done, but if someone out there has some time and would like to help Torque become better for modders, compiling those weapons from resources and experience and putting them in a seperate mod in a cohesive style might make a big difference.
My 2 cents :)
Ian
Mode 7 Games
#2
Stefan.
03/16/2004 (3:22 am)
Try www.gamebeavers.org. Basically, gamebeavers is a TGE App with quite a lot of the snippits implemented with an additional set of typical fps features and assets. You can download it and have a look at it for free and if you submit 3 assets to gamebeavers, you become a co-owner of the app and can use it as a base for whatever you want to do. The engine source code is only available to TGE license owners, since gamebeavers has to obey to the TGE license in all respects. However, this might be an easier start if you want to create a fps style game. TGE itself is more general, which makes it harder to mod, I think.Stefan.
#3
03/16/2004 (3:22 am)
Now, that's what I call a double post... 
#4
How about modding Legends?
-Jeff Tunnell GG
03/16/2004 (5:47 am)
I would love to see a "Mod base". Having documentation that explains modding vs. coding, a bunch of art, a EULA, etc. Eventually this would make a lot more Torque sales. Once the modders hit the glass ceiling, they would want the license to be able to make C++ changes.How about modding Legends?
-Jeff Tunnell GG
#5
I can also attest to Game Beavers, I'm a true newbie and having a running game has made it easier to find my way around the engine.
03/16/2004 (6:04 am)
I know GG doesn't rake us over the coals to make big bucks but I'd like to see modding become something of a profit turner for them if they went that route. Generally modding requires the purchase of an original game which generates revenue for the company. Would a "mod base" do the same? I wonder if more people would be hooked if they could purchase a mod base with the option of upgrading to a license at any time at a reduced rate? (license - mod base price)I can also attest to Game Beavers, I'm a true newbie and having a running game has made it easier to find my way around the engine.
#6
Ian
03/16/2004 (6:21 am)
No, when you buy a game you pay for the game. Game makers give mod options to create a community which will in turn produce more interest and sales. GarageGames would be doing the exact same thing, bringing the word of Torque to more people, and creating more people familiar with using it.Ian
#7
03/16/2004 (6:51 am)
Seems to me starter.fps or Realm Wars would both be good mod bases to work with. Could easily slap a bunch of weapons and vehicles into starter.fps. Thats basically what we've been doing to prototype our game.
#8
03/16/2004 (9:49 am)
Quote:Forgive the dumb question, but what is Legends?
How about modding Legends?
#9
If you are a Torque developer and you haven't played this game at least once, you are doing yourself a serious hurt. It shows what an indie team can do with the engine.
03/16/2004 (9:51 am)
www.legendsthegame.com/If you are a Torque developer and you haven't played this game at least once, you are doing yourself a serious hurt. It shows what an indie team can do with the engine.
#10
I know I should read the license more carefully but a question from the top of my head here;
There's no risk in violating the license by making your game highly moddable?
My plan is to release a "dev-site" which hopefylly explains the game mechanics (not touching the C++ source ofcourse) and scripting along with simple modeling/modding tutorials if/when my project hits the ground.
And, if I adopt the forthcoming TSE will I be able to achieve the same moddability license-wise ?
03/30/2004 (7:53 pm)
@Jeff/Ben:I know I should read the license more carefully but a question from the top of my head here;
There's no risk in violating the license by making your game highly moddable?
My plan is to release a "dev-site" which hopefylly explains the game mechanics (not touching the C++ source ofcourse) and scripting along with simple modeling/modding tutorials if/when my project hits the ground.
And, if I adopt the forthcoming TSE will I be able to achieve the same moddability license-wise ?
#11
03/31/2004 (10:16 am)
My synopsis (IANAL): You may do what you want as long as you don't distribute the C++ source. So you can explain to people how the engine works, how they can mod things, etc. etc. etc. - just not give them source code.
Associate Stefan Beffy Moises
or you could go ahead and make some "weapon content pack" e.g. and sell it through GG ;)