License just got more strict?
by John Vanderbeck · in Torque Game Engine · 03/15/2004 (2:17 pm) · 62 replies
Eh?
Despite the news title "Loberalizes" did the engine license just get MORE strict?
Seems to me it did and i'd like to get the skinny on these changes. Seems the indie license just became harder to qualify for.. 250k vs 500k. Not a huge deal I know but I wanted to clarify that.
The other, rather big one, is that we now have to display the GG splash screen?? Maybe i'm just an idiot but I don't remember reading this anywhere in the old license.
Can someone clarify this for me please?
Despite the news title "Loberalizes" did the engine license just get MORE strict?
Seems to me it did and i'd like to get the skinny on these changes. Seems the indie license just became harder to qualify for.. 250k vs 500k. Not a huge deal I know but I wanted to clarify that.
The other, rather big one, is that we now have to display the GG splash screen?? Maybe i'm just an idiot but I don't remember reading this anywhere in the old license.
Can someone clarify this for me please?
#22
03/15/2004 (3:50 pm)
Just to clarify the Commercial is $495 per seat. So a small company will likely end up purchasing a couple seats but that is still way less than the 10k per title for our old Commercial license.
#23
I have no problems displaying a "Powered by Torque" logo or even a link to Garage Games, afterall it is Torque technology behind the game we're creating.
Looking at the brighter side of things; if a game sells half a million copies at $10 profit (talking NZ dollars here) thats 5 million dollars, so at that figure I'd only too happily give GG the original 10k. But then the reality of this might not be so rosey.
Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing what the powered by Torque logo screen is going to look like.
03/15/2004 (4:01 pm)
I appreciate the changes. The lower commercial cost will make a lot of difference in the future of our company.I have no problems displaying a "Powered by Torque" logo or even a link to Garage Games, afterall it is Torque technology behind the game we're creating.
Looking at the brighter side of things; if a game sells half a million copies at $10 profit (talking NZ dollars here) thats 5 million dollars, so at that figure I'd only too happily give GG the original 10k. But then the reality of this might not be so rosey.
Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing what the powered by Torque logo screen is going to look like.
#24
Besides, I'll worry about it when I have a game coming out.
Oh, wait... ;-)
-Eric F
03/15/2004 (4:34 pm)
I don't see a title screen as being all that big of a deal. As Jeff mentioned, most of the commercial game engines do it, or even the producers get starting screen.Besides, I'll worry about it when I have a game coming out.
Oh, wait... ;-)
-Eric F
#25
03/15/2004 (8:28 pm)
I don't see the logo requirement as a big deal either. I would have given recognition to GG's anyway (when I finally do get around to making a game).
#26
03/15/2004 (9:31 pm)
I agree with Jeff here. There is really nothing for us to complain about. Displaying the Torque logo for a few seconds is not going to hurt any of us and actualy help us. Not to mention you can get the Unreal Engine for alot higher price and you STILL have to display the Unreal Engine logo for atleast 3 seconds last I checked. The Quake 3 engine has almost an exact same setup.
#27
03/15/2004 (10:21 pm)
If it gets the word out about Torque, then I'm all for it.
#28
Geshundheit . . .
smiles . . .
03/15/2004 (11:14 pm)
Good God, but this new license deal is a steal. From the years when I started and everything was way beyond reach. I beat my head against the money wall in '97 to no avail, only got a headache and nothing more. This is so workable. Geshundheit . . .
smiles . . .
#29
"Another thing, the $495 is per seat while the $100 is per programmer. So if you as a company where to purchase a number of licenses the $495 per developer would mean that the license stays with the company instead of moving with the programmer?"
03/16/2004 (12:45 am)
The only question I have about the new commercial license is one posted in another part of the GGG site:"Another thing, the $495 is per seat while the $100 is per programmer. So if you as a company where to purchase a number of licenses the $495 per developer would mean that the license stays with the company instead of moving with the programmer?"
#30
Because don't you buy something with that license, shouldn't that stay?
03/16/2004 (1:15 am)
I've never understanded how companies can chnage licenses? Because don't you buy something with that license, shouldn't that stay?
#31
But you cant take advantage of the NEW one without taking both "good and bad" with it.
So no keeping with teh 500k number and using the new 495 per seat. Or any other such foolishness
03/16/2004 (1:43 am)
Edward: Jeff said that anyone under the old license can stay with the old license.But you cant take advantage of the NEW one without taking both "good and bad" with it.
So no keeping with teh 500k number and using the new 495 per seat. Or any other such foolishness
#32
This is depressing. I think I'm just going to go motorcycle riding today. You guys can be on your own for a while. Cya.
-Jeff
03/16/2004 (5:52 am)
I have to say that I still don't get it. I don't want a bunch of fan-boy fawning or butt kissing, but we just gave you money, and lots of it. This should be huge!This is depressing. I think I'm just going to go motorcycle riding today. You guys can be on your own for a while. Cya.
-Jeff
#33
Ian
03/16/2004 (5:58 am)
Well, I understand the new license and I think it's absolutely brilliant. Thankyou GarageGames.Ian
#34
anyways, I think it's uber-cool and therefore: cheers and a bix thx to GG!! :)
03/16/2004 (6:09 am)
Hehe, yeah, I'm with Jeff... I just don't get it how anybody can have a problem with this, I guess some ppl just don't understand it ...anyways, I think it's uber-cool and therefore: cheers and a bix thx to GG!! :)
#35
I think the new commercial license is a good thing, think of everyone who complained about the 10k version. Now you don;t have to worry about 10k, just a measly 500 bucks :)
And as for the logo, you usually need to beg people to be able to use their intellectual property, I think putting it in a game is great business sense for people who are making games. Gives it some instant brand recognition :)
"Hey, this game uses TGE!"
03/16/2004 (6:14 am)
It's natural for people to question change.I think the new commercial license is a good thing, think of everyone who complained about the 10k version. Now you don;t have to worry about 10k, just a measly 500 bucks :)
And as for the logo, you usually need to beg people to be able to use their intellectual property, I think putting it in a game is great business sense for people who are making games. Gives it some instant brand recognition :)
"Hey, this game uses TGE!"
#36
;-)
j/k. Thanks for the chance to make more money. Really.
-Eric F
03/16/2004 (7:08 am)
[fanboy] Jeff, can I have your autograph? [/fanboy];-)
j/k. Thanks for the chance to make more money. Really.
-Eric F
#37
The deal with the logo is no big deal, believe me! If you read the post www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=5354
it says:
Emphasis is in may.
I take this as meaning that if you purchase the $495 commercial license you do not have to display the logo if you so chose.
Anyway...my two cents!
03/16/2004 (7:25 am)
Hang in there Jeff. Don't forget you are dealing with the general public and free interprise. EVERYONE has their own opinion. If you have been dealing with the public, pertaining to software development, for as long as I have, over 25 years, you learn to live with it. I personally think it's a great deal. The $100 or $495 is a very small price to pay for the technology. If everyone could understand how may actual man hours it took to create TGE to begin with they would probally just fall over and start kicking. The deal with the logo is no big deal, believe me! If you read the post www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=5354
it says:
Quote:
TGE 1.2 $495 Commercial License Conditions:
Use for an unlimited number of commercial titles or applications.
If annual revenues exceed $250,000 all programmers MUST have the commercial license.
Games published by GarageGames are exempt from revenue restrictions.
Torque Game Engine logo may be displayed in the product or credits.
Emphasis is in may.
I take this as meaning that if you purchase the $495 commercial license you do not have to display the logo if you so chose.
Anyway...my two cents!
#38
03/16/2004 (7:52 am)
Yeah if you purchase the commercial license you don't need the logo. I know that, thats cool. And the price on a commercial license is AWESOME. Overall its a very good change. My original post was in an attempt to clarify things, not make an attack on GG. I didin't understand the changes and needed to do so. 
#39
But, in the highly unlikely event that the project I'm working on does sell over $250,000 in one year or gets signed with a publisher with a good amount of money, this will definitely be helpful since most publishers don't want to have to pay more for engine costs and the like. After all, they'll be spending money on production and advertising and the like. But $495 versus $10,000 is a cost that developers can look at and feel semi-comfortable that they can recoup costs even with a small publisher. It oils the production side much easier and gives the developers a break if the publisher refuses to pay for the engine costs. In the event that my project got picked up, I think it would assist me in a MAJOR way.
But I need to work on finishing my project first.
But I definitely think it's HUGE news for GarageGames and for developers who keep worrying about how they can come up with $10,000 to cover their publisher's revenues.
@John
I understand that you weren't attacking GG, and I'm pretty sure that those who have read through the entire thread realize it as well. You just were in the unfortunate position of being the first one to post about the announcement. The fact that you asked a question about it brought us out from under our rocks.
@Jeff
You shouldn't be depressed about it. Confusion abounds whenever there's change, though it's been explained very well throughout the topic (and in your .plan) exactly why and how it will benefit indie development.
On the other hand, if the topic gives you a chance to go riding, I say DO IT!
03/16/2004 (9:14 am)
The only reason that it's small in terms of my project is that I doubt I'll hit the mainstream shelflife with a major publisher with huge revenues. So $250,000 and $500,000 look about the same to me, and the new logo stuff was something I was planning on anyway.But, in the highly unlikely event that the project I'm working on does sell over $250,000 in one year or gets signed with a publisher with a good amount of money, this will definitely be helpful since most publishers don't want to have to pay more for engine costs and the like. After all, they'll be spending money on production and advertising and the like. But $495 versus $10,000 is a cost that developers can look at and feel semi-comfortable that they can recoup costs even with a small publisher. It oils the production side much easier and gives the developers a break if the publisher refuses to pay for the engine costs. In the event that my project got picked up, I think it would assist me in a MAJOR way.
But I need to work on finishing my project first.
But I definitely think it's HUGE news for GarageGames and for developers who keep worrying about how they can come up with $10,000 to cover their publisher's revenues.
@John
I understand that you weren't attacking GG, and I'm pretty sure that those who have read through the entire thread realize it as well. You just were in the unfortunate position of being the first one to post about the announcement. The fact that you asked a question about it brought us out from under our rocks.
@Jeff
You shouldn't be depressed about it. Confusion abounds whenever there's change, though it's been explained very well throughout the topic (and in your .plan) exactly why and how it will benefit indie development.
On the other hand, if the topic gives you a chance to go riding, I say DO IT!
#40
With the new licensing, who you publish with has no bearings at all, except if it's GG, where you can be making more money than 250k and still get the indie licensing (that's what the commercial license seems to say. Jay or any of the Gang of Four(hehe, I made a pun on Design Patterns and the 4 founding members of GG ;)) care to confirm ?
All in all, one of the better deals out there regarding licensing :)
03/16/2004 (9:30 am)
David, the revenues are not per title, but per year, including all sources of revenues.With the new licensing, who you publish with has no bearings at all, except if it's GG, where you can be making more money than 250k and still get the indie licensing (that's what the commercial license seems to say. Jay or any of the Gang of Four(hehe, I made a pun on Design Patterns and the 4 founding members of GG ;)) care to confirm ?
All in all, one of the better deals out there regarding licensing :)
Torque Owner Stefan Lundmark