Searching for the right engine, please help
by Ryan Zec · in General Discussion · 03/14/2004 (2:49 pm) · 34 replies
This is the game i am planning to make and a list of features that the game with support (or goal list of feature the game will support):
* 3D (I don't need the better graphics but I would like very good graphics, maybe something a little cartoonish) RPG along the lines of a zelda type game. (it's goping to have a deep storyline and everything)
*Leveling system of some sort, configurable.
*Inventory System.
*Health System.
*Magic System.
*Sound.
*Mouse and keyboard support.
*Relistic (and semi-cartoonish) Water.
*Fast renderer.
*Supports DirectX 9 and now early then 8 becuase i dont what to have out dated DirectX system, or Support for OpenGL, both would be nice too.
*Fog, Lighting and Thunder, and other weather/natural effects. (the more the better)
*Supports Visual C++ 6.0 at a minimun, and Visual c++.net 2003 support would be the best.
That is just a list of the main feature I would like the engine to be able to support. I know that there is no engine that I can get out there that has these features already built in(or maybe there is, but doubt it), But What I am looking for is something that supports the most but in clearly written code and the code is documented when and the is "some type" of manual for the engine it's self that is also clear readable. I know for alot of that stuff I will need to write my own code for, but I am willing to do that. As far I have 2 main options, and still looking for more:
1. Torque : Already own becuase of a gift to me but am find it hard to read code and modify for my needs, graphics are not the best either.
2. Cipher : Looking at it, it seem to support the graphics very well but just need some more feedback to decide if it is right for me and my project.
Thanks for the time in reading this, and i hope to hear back soon.
Thank You
Ryan Zec.
* 3D (I don't need the better graphics but I would like very good graphics, maybe something a little cartoonish) RPG along the lines of a zelda type game. (it's goping to have a deep storyline and everything)
*Leveling system of some sort, configurable.
*Inventory System.
*Health System.
*Magic System.
*Sound.
*Mouse and keyboard support.
*Relistic (and semi-cartoonish) Water.
*Fast renderer.
*Supports DirectX 9 and now early then 8 becuase i dont what to have out dated DirectX system, or Support for OpenGL, both would be nice too.
*Fog, Lighting and Thunder, and other weather/natural effects. (the more the better)
*Supports Visual C++ 6.0 at a minimun, and Visual c++.net 2003 support would be the best.
That is just a list of the main feature I would like the engine to be able to support. I know that there is no engine that I can get out there that has these features already built in(or maybe there is, but doubt it), But What I am looking for is something that supports the most but in clearly written code and the code is documented when and the is "some type" of manual for the engine it's self that is also clear readable. I know for alot of that stuff I will need to write my own code for, but I am willing to do that. As far I have 2 main options, and still looking for more:
1. Torque : Already own becuase of a gift to me but am find it hard to read code and modify for my needs, graphics are not the best either.
2. Cipher : Looking at it, it seem to support the graphics very well but just need some more feedback to decide if it is right for me and my project.
Thanks for the time in reading this, and i hope to hear back soon.
Thank You
Ryan Zec.
About the author
#22
Cmon Ryan... get off your ass for 5 seconds and have a look - there is alot of stuff around...
besides im sure if you attempted it, and asked nicely instead of expecting many people around here would be more than happy to help.....
03/16/2004 (2:14 pm)
"Tell me, is there even any good documentation of scripting or do i need to figure that out on my own too."Cmon Ryan... get off your ass for 5 seconds and have a look - there is alot of stuff around...
besides im sure if you attempted it, and asked nicely instead of expecting many people around here would be more than happy to help.....
#23
Game design requires massive amounts of personal investment and research. Without this drive, the projects always turn out half-assed (unless someone can prove otherwise). So I really don't have any incentive to help this person.
In this case, I would say that Torque WILL NOT get you to goal, because its apparent that you want a custom-tailored game engine that is simple but high-end (high-end meaning ANY engine that is 3D with fog/lighting capabilities). Those don't really go hand in hand.
03/16/2004 (2:32 pm)
While I don't have a problem with people asking questions, I do find it ridiculous when someone can't put forth a little effort. Its one thing to not know what you are looking for, and can't find the proper wording to aid in your search efforts, its quite another to be simply lazy and expect others to do the work for you.Game design requires massive amounts of personal investment and research. Without this drive, the projects always turn out half-assed (unless someone can prove otherwise). So I really don't have any incentive to help this person.
In this case, I would say that Torque WILL NOT get you to goal, because its apparent that you want a custom-tailored game engine that is simple but high-end (high-end meaning ANY engine that is 3D with fog/lighting capabilities). Those don't really go hand in hand.
#24
03/17/2004 (2:55 am)
Not only is it lazy, but he's already beat this topic to death. Over and over again.
#25
Ryan: There's lots of very helpful and knowledgable people here, but don't overuse it. Torque is not for everyone, but it's a good engine and (as I understand it) a good tool to learning about 3D game engines. No one here just magically knew everything upon picking it up. It took a lot of research and trial-and-error.
There's a new book by Ken Finney that might help you out on at least modding Torque. You'll probably be pretty hard-pressed to find any good 3D engines with full source code. Everything else uses APIs, if I understand correctly.
Anyway, good luck.
-Eric F
BTW: I fully believe Melv magically knew all about the Torque Engine from the get-go. He pulled it right out of his fxFannyPack.
03/17/2004 (1:34 pm)
Lol... Not to pick on him, but "crying wolf" does come to mind.Ryan: There's lots of very helpful and knowledgable people here, but don't overuse it. Torque is not for everyone, but it's a good engine and (as I understand it) a good tool to learning about 3D game engines. No one here just magically knew everything upon picking it up. It took a lot of research and trial-and-error.
There's a new book by Ken Finney that might help you out on at least modding Torque. You'll probably be pretty hard-pressed to find any good 3D engines with full source code. Everything else uses APIs, if I understand correctly.
Anyway, good luck.
-Eric F
BTW: I fully believe Melv magically knew all about the Torque Engine from the get-go. He pulled it right out of his fxFannyPack.
#26
03/17/2004 (2:01 pm)
Quote:Solution: Torque is pretty damn fast in my opinion, especially when you're on a map with no trees or buildings and a visible distance of 10 meters.Rotfl !
#27
03/18/2004 (7:51 am)
Well from what I have heard from some people who have used both engines, I will be going with cipher. Cipher is said to have great documentation for there engine, and cleaning looking code. From the documentation I have seen here, and the 1 demo of there documentation, there seems much better in explain what their code and fuctions do. I am not saying the torque could not work for me,but I know with better documentation that I can read clearly, the engine will be much easier to modify and work with.
#28
Because it's barebones, you're going to have to write ALL the features you mention for your RPG. ALL OF THEM
Torque, on the other hand, gives you a fuller base to start with, and a "safe" way to script that doesn't involve pointers (cipher does)...
Think this one through a bit longer, I'd say, unless you already know how to code.
A good idea might be to check one of the barebones Open Source engines available for free, and see how you like it.
Big note : I love Torque and Cipher, equally. Different tools for different goals :)
03/18/2004 (8:15 am)
Ryan, one thing you have to be aware in your choice, as was pointed to you in the cipher forums, is that you'll have to code everything for your game, as cipher is a barebones engine, which indeed makes it easier to go your own way and do things the way you want than with TGE, but, in a way, it also makes it easier for you to shoot yourself in the foot, since you'll have to play with C code at the very least, since scripting in Cipher is done in ANSI C by default, or C or C++ if you're going for dlls and not bytecode.Because it's barebones, you're going to have to write ALL the features you mention for your RPG. ALL OF THEM
Torque, on the other hand, gives you a fuller base to start with, and a "safe" way to script that doesn't involve pointers (cipher does)...
Think this one through a bit longer, I'd say, unless you already know how to code.
A good idea might be to check one of the barebones Open Source engines available for free, and see how you like it.
Big note : I love Torque and Cipher, equally. Different tools for different goals :)
#29
03/18/2004 (10:25 am)
I already know how to code, and yes I know i will have to code everything for the game. In a way for me it is better, becuase my moto is I would rather start from scratch then than to fix something already built. True is might take longer, but I am sure it will be less fustraiting(sp) for me personally.
#30
Torque is certianly capable of making an RPG, I haven't used cipher but it appears quite capable as well. But in any case it will be a lot of work. I strongly reccommend that you take the advice of some of these posters and create a mod for an existing RPG first (even a small mod, one that uses the media from the existing game), that will give you a clearer idea of what the internals of a RPG look like before you embark on your own. NWN's tools and engine in particular is almost a work of art in software engineering terms.
03/18/2004 (10:59 am)
Having started such projects from scratch many times, I can tell you that is pretty unlikely that it will be less frustrating. Often you end up creating things and tools that are quite valuable and useful to you but not at all what you set out to do. Torque is certianly capable of making an RPG, I haven't used cipher but it appears quite capable as well. But in any case it will be a lot of work. I strongly reccommend that you take the advice of some of these posters and create a mod for an existing RPG first (even a small mod, one that uses the media from the existing game), that will give you a clearer idea of what the internals of a RPG look like before you embark on your own. NWN's tools and engine in particular is almost a work of art in software engineering terms.
#31
-Jeff Tunnell GG
03/18/2004 (11:13 am)
I look forward to seeing Ryan's game at some later date. As to the Torque community, I think we have spent way too much time on this issue with one particular individual. We have things to do, places to go, and people to see!-Jeff Tunnell GG
#33
03/19/2004 (10:58 am)
Well as soon as I get some Really good pre-alphe screenshots, I send them if for the dev snapshots.
#34
http://www.omegacore3d.com
http://www.lifelinkai.com
It is currently DX8.1, but will be converted to DX9.0 upon final release.
04/20/2004 (1:38 pm)
Omega Core 3D is going into Alpha testing on May 1st, Beta on June 1st, and release on July 1st. It has most of the features you request and more will be added throughout the year, including integration with LifeLink AI, which will take care of all the RPG needs you mentioned.http://www.omegacore3d.com
http://www.lifelinkai.com
It is currently DX8.1, but will be converted to DX9.0 upon final release.
Torque Owner Dylan Sale