Novodex physics integration?!

#1 Oh interesting, I'd seen their post on the flipcode forums a few weeks ago and contacted them to get more info about the networkability of the physics but never got a reply.

From the FAQ it's hard to tell whether it simply allows for manual updates to velocities and positions, which ODE dislikes, or if it already has some custom data packing (it doesn't have a network layer though so I'm guessing not?).

Anyway the demos on http://www.novodex.com/ are impressive.

Anyone have any more info regarding Torque integration?

#2 I know two of the creators of the novodex physiks sdk. I was on a presentation where they showed us what the sdk can do.
I have talked a few words with one of them. He used Torque befor. He implemented ODE this time into Torque. So it could be possible that they integrated it themself. But I'm not sure about that.

I would say you just ask if they have such a implementation you can use. I'm sure they help you if they can.

#3 Oops, my first post doesn't make much sense..

First sentence should be:
I have contacted Novodex (a really good looking and rather fast phsysics engine) and they told me that novodex already has been integrated with TORQUE.

@Marco Meier
So what you're saying is that Novodex themselves might have implemented Novodex with Torque?

Do you remember the name of this guy?
I have been communicating with a Roland Vuillemin, but he might just be a sales-guy!

- Rasmus

#4 Well right. That could be. But like I said, that's just a assumption. I really don't know it.
That's a long time ago :) Sorry, but I don't remember his name. I have to take a look at my notes when I'm back home.
But I could jump over to them. Zürich is just a few kilometers away from here. Maybe I can get some more info on this topic directly from the developers.

#5 Asking Pierre Terdiman (codercorner.com) about this might be a good idea, as he seems to be behind some of the coding in the Novodex SDK (ie he posted a Flipcode IOTD just the other day announcing the latest Novodex)

#6 Novodex is using Torque as the "carrier" for their physics engine. It has not been announced yet. Jay is working with their PR guy to form the press release.

-Jeff Tunnell GG

#7 Oh great.. so he wasn't lying that guy from Novodex..
I suppose you are not able to tell more about this - e.g. if the integration code will be available for those interested?

This is great news...

#8 Isn't it a bit expensive for "indies" though?

#9 I've checked their demos out and having them as an optional upgrade to Torque would be nice. However, the problem is Mac support. I can't see any Mac support and I believe it was Jeff Tunnel who said: "65% of our game sales come from the Mac.". So if you're publishing via GarageGames you're dropping 65% of your revenues. All their licensing options seem to be for win32 and console. There also seems to be a linux version not included in any standard license to publish. The console licensing option seems to be ANSI C++ though so that should be pretty cross platform.

You'd actually need a license for at least two platforms, windows and mac in order to keep the larger part of your potential revenue stream. Seeing how they charge $14,000 for the only two platform solution (consoles: xbox and ps2) it sounds expensive. Using an engine for $100 and a physics engine which costs 140 times your engine cost would be a bit odd. Yeah I admit the $100 comparison isn't a fair one as torque is incredibly cheap. Yet it makes the point.

Awaiting the announcement and some demos of it in torque. Torque is starting to smooooke! Will there be fire soon? ;P Are we also starting to move up on the price-ladder?

source:
Novodex licensing:
www.novodex.com/sales.html
J. Tunnel on sales:
www.garagegames.com/mg/snapshot/view.php?qid=741

#10 Peter there is "supposed" to be a big announcement in about 2 weeks I think. ;)

#11 Michael, hey.. Impatience.. a virtue or a vise? =)

#12 Well as I see it, if you sign a deal with a publisher (most publishers are worth more that $500.000) you'll have to pay $10.000 for Torque and $9.500 for Novodex (single platform license).. until you strike a deal you'll get novodex for $95 (not entirely true, but for my aims it is) - I don't see the big difference in price...

You'll have to look at what marked you're aiming at...

#13 They should create a deal, for torque *LICENSED* users, that way, we may have a break for a time, then pay it when the game sales big

#14 If you are using it on a single PC, it costs $95.
If the physics sdk is used in more than one PC in a site, it costs $9500.
Am I correct?

#15 @James,

From what I understood, the with $95 you cant release what you're working on. You have to buy the $9500 version to be able to release anything. That's the main reason for the discussion on huge price difference.

T.

UC.

#16 Well, looking through their FAQ, it seems that you can release what you work on (export a physics demo and use the free viewer if you're not implementing the SDK into your application and want to use it to show off your mad physics skillz).

The single-PC licensing binds it to that PC, so whoever is the main physics coder would be responsible for the license. And most companies with hardware locks are helpful when it comes to machine upgrades and the like.

Not having it available on the Mac and Linux is a problem for the cross-platform segment of the Torque community. From what it states about integration onto the PS2, cross-compiling for another platform and link libraries may be an option (though horrendous to debug). Dual-booting to linux on the same machine and mounting your development drive could be another option to work with a Linux port. Of course, I don't know how integrated Windows is into the SDK, but I'd assume that it's somewhat minimal because of the console targets (where I'm sure their cash cow is). Macs are another issue, though.

From what I've seen on their site, it looks promising (and even more so from Jeff's post).

I'm currently downloading it to check out the licensing and such included since the site is rather sparse.

#17 Just downloaded their demo, and for $95.00, and being just me, this is something I will definately try playing around with, it's all done, and done very well imho for $95.00 that's a price you can't beat really. I will wait to see what this "announcement" is before I get it of course, but the price is right. If something ever happens and I have to actually PUBLISH something (the "what if" scenario) then coming up with the licensing fee shouldn't be a problem vs. profit return depending on what the product is, however if it's too pricey for the amount of profit return then I don't need it obviously. Hehe :)

Then again....I can't deny the fact that I think I just spent 30 minutes throwing those little ragdolls into the pyramids of boxes and down that flight of stairs going "Ooooo" and "Weeee". :) Maybe I'm morbid....but that definately is something cool in my book.

Curios as to what this GG / Novodex annoucement is, rumors of integration would be cool, as that would save me even more time if I don't have to try to pretend to know something about code, hehe. :)

If I were a GG user I'd at least download the free demo and fling some ragdolls around as a stress reducer while we all wait to see what the Dev shot of the day was about from a few days ago with the cyber orc. I can't take the tension anymore! Tell us about that sexy model and what was going on in that shot!! :)

#18 As far as I could tell from the licensing file, there were no commercial problems with using the SDK unless more than one user uses it on more than one machine (actually, only one user can use it on one machine, as the two are different).

The truck demos look vaguely familiar.

I'm playing with it and am also excited to see the announcements!

#19 Ah, I just re-found where I got my info from for my previous post. In their FAQ:

Quote:
Can I distribute my demos under the NovodeX Personal Edition license agreement?

Yes, you can. However, only computers with a licensed copy of NovodeX Personal Edition will be able to run your demo. Alternatively, we recommend you to use the *.ods file format together with the free Viewer to distribute your physics demos freely.

To me, that means that if you want to distribute a game using the $95 version, the only other people who are going to be able to play it are those that also have the novodex SDK, though you can release demos using their file format and viewer. Or am I being dense ?

Tom.

#20 I took that to mean that physics demo scenes using their visualization engine (which would require the PE to be installed) or viewer and not SDK integration since if the more expensive license has the same restrictions (except for the single-pc, single-user restriction) it would be rather useless to game developers using licensed engine x.

But then, their site is rather vague and the licensing doesn't seem to exist in their directory structure. I had to reinstall to check it closer.