Compilers

#21 Programming is Programming at a certain level. Beyond that level it becomes difficult.

Non-Programmers are going to struggle with TorqueScript just like they would with C. Maybe moreso since it is not a 'mainstream' langauge syntax and there are not lots of books/examples on the syntax.

C++ has many more 'gotchas' than any of the Scripting languages.

Here is where the problem lies, the "you don't know what you don't know" kicks in.

If what you want to do falls within the boundries/contraints of TorqueScript then you are good to go.
If it doesn't you will have to code that in C++.

And there is no catalog of what "can/should be" done in TorqueScript and what "should be" or "has to be" done in C++.
And there is no catalog of what would/is trival to add to the engine and what is nigh impossible because of the way things are now.

The only way to find these things out is experience, which takes time and patience.

I agree with Jeff, you can learn a BOATLOAD just mucking around with the demo app and the scripts if you have the patience and understand rudimentiary programming idioms.

You can learn even more from the C++ source code! If you have the C++ skills. The recent repackaing of the code makes this easier by far.

And this learnig process can be fun if you get it or it can be an exercise in frustration if you don't.

#22 I switch from A5 to Torque, most of the games in A5 can be done in c-script alone, you can make FPS, shooting, adventure, puzzle without program in C++, so I expect Torque is same.

I read the alpha manual, but I really miss the 3 important sections:

Appendix A Console Commands and Functions
Appendix B Torque Datablocks
Appendix C Torque Objects

And also there is no document regarding the event of engine.

I think without the above reference I have to find them in C++ source, but I am not a C++ programmer.

Torque is great, but it is not the type like A5, Flash, or Director, it is still a pure C++ engine. If you want a game authoring system, Torque is not very suitable I think.

#23 I don't think you want/need to compile the engine for what you want - to make "mods" (new art, 3D objects, etc.).

Your programmers should be responsible for compiling the source. I think you said it was your responsibility to tell them what Torque has to offer? I think you should all be taking a look at some of the "tutorial" and getting started guides in the resources area, including the tourniquet docs. That will give you a basic understanding of how to add art/3D objects/etc. to the "game".

You'll then probably need to decide what else you want added. It's impossible to know until you've seen what Torque has and then ask about other things you don't see - they might be in the engine but not in any demos.

For example, Torque supports rain and lightning but none of the demos have it turned on so you can look at it (maybe the "demo" mod, but it's hard to find). There's a resource that shows how to easily add this, all script based.

Say you want to have ladders - that's NOT in the engine, exactly. So if you want a FPS game with ladders, you'll have to add some code to the engine and scripts and possibly an exporter or two (to allow adding ladders while in Quark or WorldCraft or your favorite 3D editor).

To get you started on playing around without compiling:
1. Download the torquedemo (if you already have it, great!).
2. Download the source files from CVS (I think you already have).
3. Copy the main EXE to your c:\torque\example\ folder (or wherever you downloaded the CVS files)
4. Run the EXE

See some of the Getting Started pages on command line options to run some other "demo" mods, such as "torquedemo.exe -mod starter.racing" or "torquedemo.exe -mod tutorial.fps".

-Nerseus

#24 Datablocks: www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/coding/console.html#conref
Console Commands/Scripting Reference: www.garagegames.com/downloads/TGE_Console_Cmds.rtf
Torque objects are commented in the C++ code.

Did you see the documentation? www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/index.php

There is much more here than the Alpha Getting started docs.

#25 Its not very hard to add stuff to the engine. This is the second day I've had the Torque(and first time working in c++) and I've already added 3 new features to the source, and I've having lot of fun with it. ;-)

#26 All this input has been great, so thank you all. The music/band anology was right on Jeff. This is essentially a part-time endeavor/hobby for me, but also something I am working towards making a career, or part of my career, because it is so satisfying and fun. But I want to take my time, and develop my skills well.

Hey Dan....I found this interesting but could you spell this out for me in a little more detail? Or pretend I am 12 year old? =)

Quote:3. Copy the main EXE to your c:\torque\example\ folder (or wherever you downloaded the CVS files)
4. Run the EXE

I have the demo, and the did the CVS thing. When people say "run" I think that means using the run command from the start menu, no? I have tried running several things this way that people suggest running, but I get an error message. God I am stupid. Forgive....

Thanks man...

PS - right now I still have plenty to learn just from the resources in the demo, so I am still working with that

#27 I believe the demo you downloaded (not the CVS files) contains one EXE, probably torquedemo.exe or torque.exe.

Copy that file from wherever you installed the demo to your "c:\torque\example\" folder. This path might be different if you ran CVS somewhere else. Basically, find the torque\example folder and that's where the EXE should go. Then just double click the EXE.

You can "run" the exe by using Start->Run, but you'd have to add the full path the EXE. I'd just double click on it in explorer, assuming you're using windows.

-Dan

#28 Hey Jeff, I just got the Visual C++.Net got in just under a week from the amazon site (great) the bad news is, the compiler that comes with it only runs on Windows Server 2003, Windows XP - Profesional Edition & Windows 2000 Profesional and Server editions :(

So I just bought myself a nifty bookholder :)

May want to put that in your FAQ also. Just glad I did not pay the full price for it... :)

I am running a Windows 98Se material for a bit, looking for a compiler that will work with this mess (add one more to the frustration bar level)..

#29 First, I'm sorry you bought a compiler you can't use right now :(
But...I don't think GarageGames needs anything in their FAQ. You can easily check the system requirements for pretty much any piece of software. Here's the link for C++ 2003, which shows as you mentioned that it's not supported on Win98. I'm a bit surprised that it won't work on 98, but I guess that's what the sys reqs are for.

I'm sure you could buy a cheap copy of VC++ 6.0 if you like MS's compiler/IDE. If/when you upgrade your OS to XP you'll have a nice, new IDE waiting for you :)

-ner

#30 "But...I don't think GarageGames needs anything in their FAQ. You can easily check the system requirements for pretty much any piece of software"

Well I added a comment on the page to where the link that goes to Amazon, it's just a FYI for the most part. Just to help Newbys such as myself, - not to make the same mistake I did. I just felt burned (mostly at myself for not catching it). I can't really blame GG, they have been great sofar in helping me out with questions. I did not catch it before I made the purchase (all the help books usually are pretty basic and run on just about anything..)

"I'm a bit surprised that it won't work on 98"

Well it looks like the .Net apps are aimed at working on the not home edition of things (Win2000 lata)... The more heavy horse OS for the Windows Family. Pluss more than likey MS want's us all to upgrade our OS every other year or so (keeps them employed).

"I'm sure you could buy a cheap copy of VC++ 6.0 if you like MS's compiler/IDE"

More than likely will hunt one down. Thanks for the flogging, Well back to hunting.

#31 I just bought two computers off ebay with a full license to Windows 2000 for each. I broke down and bought these computers so I can use Quark to make DIFs. It seems to be a quality tool, but I need Winblows to do it. Each computer was $240 including shipping. They are not bad machines. Some of them came with 98 and I looked until I found a good seller that bundles the OS with the licenses properly. Will let you know how it turns out.

Also, could someone please tell me why I cannot add files to the source? I put the files in the correct location on the *.mk and I still get "No rule to make target" errors. I am doing this under Linux if that makes a difference. Is there a way to autogenerate dependencies for new files? That is all I can think of that is wrong. I have made lots of small makefiles, but this thing is huge!

Thanks,
Frank

#32 Figured out the compile problem. The name of the file: testvehicle.cpp was not the same as what I put in the *.mk file: testvehicle.cc. So I changed the name of the file to: testvehicle.cc. It now compiles, DOH!

Frank

#33 Question: that link up there for Amazon is still accurate, and I was wondering: why is this "Deluxe" edition of C++.net 2003 selling for $75 when the MS Standard version is selling on the SAME SITE for $99?

What're you getting for the extra $24? Or what's "wrong" with the cheaper version? ;)

Thanks!

#34 this is what you are supposed to get for the product id 0-7356-1908-5.

If you aren't gettting the book with the CD SEALED inside it, you might be getting a pirate copy. Which is not so much a good deal.

Looks like those "used" versions are just the CD from the back of the book and probably not legal. I don't have the EULA for that particular book but they usually FORBID that kind of thing in the past with the learning edition of VS4 - VS6 that I have seen.

#35 just for research on where that product id is being sold.

#36 Thanks, guys! Been using my old VS 6.0 student copy to get around the code a bit, but I can't compile the engine with it, and GCC is a pain, so it's time for an upgrade!!!

#37 I have a quick question. What version of .net comes with version c++ 7.1? Or is that just a free upgrade? What is the difference between 7.0 and 7.1?

#38 See microsofts website

#39 I am close to getting this all put together. I knew from the reviews that this would be a steep learning curve, and so have no complaints. I am, however, looking for a solution. As near as I can tell, I have followed instructions carefully, and I get only predictable responses until I actually try to run TorqueDemo (BTW: love the Torque metaphor).

Here are the conditions:
Windows XP with Visual C++ Net.
Nvidia GL video card
Creative Live sound card
1GB RAM

Here is the build message:
7 succeeded, 0 failed, 0 skipped (when I build)


Here is the Windows error message when I try to run TorqueDemo.exe
TorqueDemo.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience. (I also get the console with a "press any key to continue message", but that just closes it down.)

AppName: torquedemo.exe AppVer: 0.0.0.0 ModName: unknown
ModVer: 0.0.0.0 Offset: 00000000


I know that this is some stupid toggle I have missed, but perhaps somebody can point me to it? I'm so close, but so far . . .

Best,
Dave

#40 1) Make sure that you have the latest video drivers - www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp
2) Make sure that you are running your desktop resolution at 1024x768 or higher
3) Check console.log in the /example directory and see if there are any errors?