Looking for a game engine - Torque?
by Graham Watts · in Torque Game Engine · 02/20/2004 (6:50 am) · 11 replies
Hi i am completly new to torque and have tried the demo out a few times which i found impressive. I am currently using Gamestudio (A6) to create games but recently have hit some major problems with its network code so i am now looking into some other options.
My Current plans for a game are to create a Cooperative game where human players take on AI enemys but im not sure how well torque will work for this so i have a few questions:
Indoor environments mostly with maybe some outdoor environments - How well does torque handle this? How well would you rate the lighting in the engine is it capable of creating dark atmospheric environments so far i have only really seen lighting in an outside environment.
Players Vs AI - Is torque capable of this type of game mode or is it more fixed to Player Vs Player gameplay. What instructions for AI does torque have?
Does torque support Shaders of any kind? One of my team members is great with shaders so i know i could sell the idea to him just on that basis :)
Am i right in thinking that each license i buy is for the SDK so only the programmers will need to buy it? If so what about other tools like level design etc?
Can i have a go at scripting etc in the demo? So far i can only run the example programs.
How does the multiplayer code work? Do i need to code the majority of the lag hiding code or is it easy for the engine to handle it?
I am experienced with programming in C++ so i am really just looking to see how the engine could handle the above things.
Thanks
My Current plans for a game are to create a Cooperative game where human players take on AI enemys but im not sure how well torque will work for this so i have a few questions:
Indoor environments mostly with maybe some outdoor environments - How well does torque handle this? How well would you rate the lighting in the engine is it capable of creating dark atmospheric environments so far i have only really seen lighting in an outside environment.
Players Vs AI - Is torque capable of this type of game mode or is it more fixed to Player Vs Player gameplay. What instructions for AI does torque have?
Does torque support Shaders of any kind? One of my team members is great with shaders so i know i could sell the idea to him just on that basis :)
Am i right in thinking that each license i buy is for the SDK so only the programmers will need to buy it? If so what about other tools like level design etc?
Can i have a go at scripting etc in the demo? So far i can only run the example programs.
How does the multiplayer code work? Do i need to code the majority of the lag hiding code or is it easy for the engine to handle it?
I am experienced with programming in C++ so i am really just looking to see how the engine could handle the above things.
Thanks
#2
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=14336
02/20/2004 (8:11 am)
No shaders currently supported. You can search the forums for "shaders" The most recent thread non SDK Thread is:http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=14336
#3
The game that Torque originally powered was Tribes2 its interior requirements were very light.
02/20/2004 (9:48 am)
Ihave to disagree with Kenneth. The indoor code is really not that good. It is effient but almost completely lacking in what one would expect to be "standard' features like doors, and transparent windows and such. It is way below what Half-Life has "entity" wise.The game that Torque originally powered was Tribes2 its interior requirements were very light.
#4
If you meant that the Torque we use is a fork from the Tribes II code, then you're absolutely right :)
And I agree on what you said about interiors : I spent many hours before the Holidays trying not only to make sense of it, but also improve its palette of tools. The only thing that's about usable from that work is my addition of detail textures to the interiors. I have some improvements to do in that code before packing it up as a resource, including a patch against 1.2.1
02/20/2004 (10:34 am)
Actually, Jarrod, TGE powered quite a few games before Tribes II (Tribes 1, and the hunting games from Dynamix for example)If you meant that the Torque we use is a fork from the Tribes II code, then you're absolutely right :)
And I agree on what you said about interiors : I spent many hours before the Holidays trying not only to make sense of it, but also improve its palette of tools. The only thing that's about usable from that work is my addition of detail textures to the interiors. I have some improvements to do in that code before packing it up as a resource, including a patch against 1.2.1
#5
"Torque handles Indoors even better than it does outdoors"
He didn't ask about what features were available or if it had doors or not. He asked how Torque handled it. I take that to mean "does the code perform well in tighter spaces". If thats the case, then in your haste to disagree with someone(big surprise) you didn't take into account PERFORMANCE which I doubt you could argue that Torque doesn't get better FPS indoors than out.
Now if he had wanted a blow by blow of what is has and does not have, I could have gone that route as well.
"It is way below what Half-Life has "entity" wise."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Half-Life engine cost 4500 times more than Torque for the same platforms? Stands to reason you'll get a little more for the extra $449,900.00
Just out of curiosity, do you have anything GOOD to say about Torque?
02/20/2004 (1:10 pm)
Jarrod"Torque handles Indoors even better than it does outdoors"
He didn't ask about what features were available or if it had doors or not. He asked how Torque handled it. I take that to mean "does the code perform well in tighter spaces". If thats the case, then in your haste to disagree with someone(big surprise) you didn't take into account PERFORMANCE which I doubt you could argue that Torque doesn't get better FPS indoors than out.
Now if he had wanted a blow by blow of what is has and does not have, I could have gone that route as well.
"It is way below what Half-Life has "entity" wise."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Half-Life engine cost 4500 times more than Torque for the same platforms? Stands to reason you'll get a little more for the extra $449,900.00
Just out of curiosity, do you have anything GOOD to say about Torque?
#6
Anyway, Torque has basic interior support. If you're looking for lush, Unreal-style arenas... Unreal might be a better choice. Of course, Torque has the price point and full source, whereas Unreal leaves you very much at the whim of Epic (and more importantly, their legal staff).
I know it's entirely feasible to add shader support to Torque; out of the box, it has none.
If you're serious about this, and an experienced C++ guy, you might want to plunk down the change and take a look at the engine yourself, to get a feel for how hard it will be to make it do what you want, and what it offers you. At the least, definitely a very interesting body of code to look over.
02/20/2004 (11:20 pm)
Yeah, uh...Anyway, Torque has basic interior support. If you're looking for lush, Unreal-style arenas... Unreal might be a better choice. Of course, Torque has the price point and full source, whereas Unreal leaves you very much at the whim of Epic (and more importantly, their legal staff).
I know it's entirely feasible to add shader support to Torque; out of the box, it has none.
If you're serious about this, and an experienced C++ guy, you might want to plunk down the change and take a look at the engine yourself, to get a feel for how hard it will be to make it do what you want, and what it offers you. At the least, definitely a very interesting body of code to look over.
#7
Thanks again everyone :-)
02/21/2004 (4:00 am)
Thanks everyone for the answers. I don't think the engine is quite what i need for my current project because it does need alot of indoor levels. If i ever create an outdoor based game then i will definatly consider torque especially from a price vs performance point of view but i think for now ill try and put my C++ skills to the test with Gamestudio A6 ;)Thanks again everyone :-)
#8
-Jeff Tunnell GG
02/21/2004 (8:46 pm)
Torque may not quite reach Unreal standards for interiors, it certainly meets or exceeds A5--Jeff Tunnell GG
#9
02/21/2004 (10:56 pm)
I will point out that to get approximately what you get with Torque, you'll have to pay the Conitec guys aroung ten times as much... :)
#10
I used A5 extra but it sucks in performance (espacially terrains) and miss many features. The more featurerich pro-version costs something around 1000 euro... but the performance is still a joke
...torque is the better choice
02/22/2004 (1:50 am)
@ Ben Garney: you are right!I used A5 extra but it sucks in performance (espacially terrains) and miss many features. The more featurerich pro-version costs something around 1000 euro... but the performance is still a joke
...torque is the better choice
#11
My game project also is a cooperative game which involves only Players vs. AI, the AI works fine for me when I have about even 10 bots to each player, you just have to optimize what code you do and think lateraly. The default A.I. script stuff you get with the Torque demos is quite cheesy because the bots just run around and shoot with no real accuracy or team work, but if you think about what you are doing(get a pen and paper and plan) then you can make very powerfull armys of A.I. opponents.
(if you need anyhelp feel free to e-mail me)
Interiors
I found that the interiors system used in Torque is the best I have used yet, mainly because of portals, if ya search the forum then you can find a good discription of what they do, because I do not have enough time to go into them now :P.
02/22/2004 (2:11 am)
Players vs. AIMy game project also is a cooperative game which involves only Players vs. AI, the AI works fine for me when I have about even 10 bots to each player, you just have to optimize what code you do and think lateraly. The default A.I. script stuff you get with the Torque demos is quite cheesy because the bots just run around and shoot with no real accuracy or team work, but if you think about what you are doing(get a pen and paper and plan) then you can make very powerfull armys of A.I. opponents.
(if you need anyhelp feel free to e-mail me)
Interiors
I found that the interiors system used in Torque is the best I have used yet, mainly because of portals, if ya search the forum then you can find a good discription of what they do, because I do not have enough time to go into them now :P.
Torque Owner Gonzo T. Clown
Torque supports AI with some fairly useful AI code that is being improved on a regular basis. There are also quite a few resources for it.
The documentation has recently taken a huge leap forward in overall coverage and examples and is very well layed out.
Shaders, I don't know, but I do know it has full OpenGL and D3D support. Torque handles Indoors even better than it does outdoors(dont get me wrong, outdoors work great also) Lighting and particles are well supported and can also be expanded.
The only ones that need a license are the ones that will work directly with the SDK code. Artists and scriptors do not need the license.
The whole point of the demo is to give you a chance to play around with the code and graphics and the editors. Jump right in, have a look around.
Torque has actually won awards for it's network code and is very well designed. I am not aware of any complaints about the network code.
Worse comes to worse, it's worth it to spend the 100 bucks just to find out what it really looks like and to evaluate it's potential to your needs. I can honestly say that it's worth far more than a 100 bucks. And for the amount of documentation, community and developer support, features, and tools that you find here, I can guarantee you you wont find a finer engine at nearly any price.
If you feel you can code in C++, then I can see nothing that would stop you from achieving exactly the results you desire based on the questions you posed.