Some questions before starting develop
by elvencode · in General Discussion · 01/15/2004 (6:23 am) · 3 replies
Hi to the community!
I'm new here :) I'm reading from some time this website and i like a lot it and the work done from the indies. It's about 3/4 years that i enjoy learning game programming, from reading papers/websites/books to play games analizing the gameplay, the work done in the textures,animations,programming,etc. After some 3d opengl programs, a little game and a freezed big project (that i continue to work on sometimes but need much work for one person for a fast release) i decided to develop a shareware game with some mixed gameplay styles, a storyline,etc. I'm writing the story, many ideas for the levels, models,etc and i'll program the engine. A friend of mine is working on the art part (the models, animations, texturing, some scripts, levels,etc). We decided to use an engine already done and customize it, because the game involves collisions, some physics, much indoor enviroments and having a professional and (as much as possible) bug-free engine that is also crossplatform (an issue i want) consume much time and energies (thinking that we havent a lot of experience in optimizing 3d rendering).
I'd like to know something about Torque that i havent read about around here, because also i think that gameplay and storyline (sadly) need to be "crafted" around the capabilities of the tools you are working on. So:
1) a lot of the levels are ambiented in ancient places and we'd like to add details on walls, floors,etc. For example in a location (room) we'd like to use the same rock texture on the walls but also add dirt here, some vegetation there. I've to create a different texture for every different detail+base texture or i can blend runtime (with multitexturing or something else) 2 (or more) textures on that wall? I ask this also because loading 5/10 different flavours of the same wall seems a little RAM eater
2) i've read the the reccomended number of polys for the models is around 2500. if i use 5000 there's some panic in collision detection and/or animation rendering or not? collision is done via a bounding box? if yes the bounding box change runtime if the model become larger (for example walking or using an hand to open a door)
3) is possible to use different lightmaps for an enviroment? i'd like to simulate in a room turning off and on of a light or a window. also, is possible to have nice lighting effect using a torch in the hand of a player that is walking in a set of dark rooms?
4) there's a way to import vertex and texture UV data from a 3DS or similar to a BSP map done in Quark or Worldcraft? i'd like to create some caves in the levels and some modelers can give me a) smoothing of the cave polys b) do boxed mapping to hide (as much as possible) the use of a single texture for rock.
also if i need to insert a static statue in a place, i'd like to put it statically so rendering speed is a little better.
5) in Quark, the Arch tool and the other ones in the same group can be used in Torque? as much as i know Torque doesnt support any bezier made structures, isnt? i'd like to add more curved pillars,etc. here and there.
6) i'm not sure, but texture trasparencies are possible? i mean use of grates (with the holes not visible) or having an hair texture.
7) there's a limit on architecture complexity? i mean not only the extension but also the things in a single room. for example for collision slow down or similar.
8) with some hack (or not, but i think is difficult to have it already done in torque) is possible to hide zones of a level that the player have not to see? because our game will be not a FPS we decided to use and external camera. there're some way to do it and in some case (for example a view like in the game NWN) it will be possible to see something that must be hide.
For now these are my questions, a little too much? ;) the game gameplay will relies more on scripting and i think Torque has (for what i've read in the forums :P ) a good scripting system so i dont ask anything about it,.. for now! :P
Thanks,
elvencode
I'm new here :) I'm reading from some time this website and i like a lot it and the work done from the indies. It's about 3/4 years that i enjoy learning game programming, from reading papers/websites/books to play games analizing the gameplay, the work done in the textures,animations,programming,etc. After some 3d opengl programs, a little game and a freezed big project (that i continue to work on sometimes but need much work for one person for a fast release) i decided to develop a shareware game with some mixed gameplay styles, a storyline,etc. I'm writing the story, many ideas for the levels, models,etc and i'll program the engine. A friend of mine is working on the art part (the models, animations, texturing, some scripts, levels,etc). We decided to use an engine already done and customize it, because the game involves collisions, some physics, much indoor enviroments and having a professional and (as much as possible) bug-free engine that is also crossplatform (an issue i want) consume much time and energies (thinking that we havent a lot of experience in optimizing 3d rendering).
I'd like to know something about Torque that i havent read about around here, because also i think that gameplay and storyline (sadly) need to be "crafted" around the capabilities of the tools you are working on. So:
1) a lot of the levels are ambiented in ancient places and we'd like to add details on walls, floors,etc. For example in a location (room) we'd like to use the same rock texture on the walls but also add dirt here, some vegetation there. I've to create a different texture for every different detail+base texture or i can blend runtime (with multitexturing or something else) 2 (or more) textures on that wall? I ask this also because loading 5/10 different flavours of the same wall seems a little RAM eater
2) i've read the the reccomended number of polys for the models is around 2500. if i use 5000 there's some panic in collision detection and/or animation rendering or not? collision is done via a bounding box? if yes the bounding box change runtime if the model become larger (for example walking or using an hand to open a door)
3) is possible to use different lightmaps for an enviroment? i'd like to simulate in a room turning off and on of a light or a window. also, is possible to have nice lighting effect using a torch in the hand of a player that is walking in a set of dark rooms?
4) there's a way to import vertex and texture UV data from a 3DS or similar to a BSP map done in Quark or Worldcraft? i'd like to create some caves in the levels and some modelers can give me a) smoothing of the cave polys b) do boxed mapping to hide (as much as possible) the use of a single texture for rock.
also if i need to insert a static statue in a place, i'd like to put it statically so rendering speed is a little better.
5) in Quark, the Arch tool and the other ones in the same group can be used in Torque? as much as i know Torque doesnt support any bezier made structures, isnt? i'd like to add more curved pillars,etc. here and there.
6) i'm not sure, but texture trasparencies are possible? i mean use of grates (with the holes not visible) or having an hair texture.
7) there's a limit on architecture complexity? i mean not only the extension but also the things in a single room. for example for collision slow down or similar.
8) with some hack (or not, but i think is difficult to have it already done in torque) is possible to hide zones of a level that the player have not to see? because our game will be not a FPS we decided to use and external camera. there're some way to do it and in some case (for example a view like in the game NWN) it will be possible to see something that must be hide.
For now these are my questions, a little too much? ;) the game gameplay will relies more on scripting and i think Torque has (for what i've read in the forums :P ) a good scripting system so i dont ask anything about it,.. for now! :P
Thanks,
elvencode
About the author
#2
About the decals.. the world editor already have the possibility to change a texture of a wall? because i've to edit the map or in the level editor (customizing Quark?) or the tools in Torque in some way.
Again thanks :)
01/15/2004 (12:08 pm)
Thanks for the interesting infos :) so i'd have to customize here and there (a normal thing i think :P). i understand very well that setting an average ammount on polys on screen during a level is something that must be done less or more. however our game will not be not a lot action based so speed is not too much important. About the decals.. the world editor already have the possibility to change a texture of a wall? because i've to edit the map or in the level editor (customizing Quark?) or the tools in Torque in some way.
Again thanks :)
#3
01/15/2004 (3:48 pm)
No, the world editor cannot change the texture on a wall currently. However, decals are seperate from the interior code and therefore could be added in the world editor or through some other means. 
Associate Kyle Carter
2. If you use 5000 polys for a model, then the engine just runs slower. If you use 10000, it will run slower yet. If you use 1250, it will run a bit faster. There aren't any hard limits here. 2500 is just a magic number that tends to work well. Collision for players is done using a bounding box; vehicles are done using convex hulls. Ray casts against players are done using convex hulls as well, afaik. If you need the collision to be more accurate, you can try using convex hulls for the player as well.
3. Yes. The engine does "alarm mode" for interiors; you could extend this to whatever switching you need.
4. Not really. You can insert DTSes anywhere in the world, which would work well for statues and such.
5. Stock Torque doesn't support b-patches. Matthew Fairfax has modified a copy of Torque to run Quake3 levels, so it is possible to do this. It will just take some coding savvy (or throwing money at Matt, maybe ;).
6. Yes. If it doesn't work by default I believe there is a resource which adds it.
7. If you have more things in your world, the game runs more slowly. More polygons (caused by complex levels) will also result in a slowdown.
8. You could probably do this with some raycasts from the player's eyes to the objects in question. If the ray hits nothing, then the player can see the object and it should be drawn.
Hope this helps!