I don't have 3D MAX

#1 Milkshape is cheap, about $20. 3D Studio is pricy.. not sure on the current prices.

The app you choose will Depend on the sort of project you're working on.

I've used 3D studio before and I think it's an extremely powerful modeling, rendering tool.. but it's a bit much for the hobbyist.. I think someone here described it as "Using a tactical nuke to crack a nut".

I now use Milkshape because it's cheap and I can model just as well with it (with a little practice) In fact, I have more control over my models with Milkshape than I ever did with max. or so it seems anyway.

If you choose milkshape, you'll probably want to use a couple of additional pieces of software to make up for its shortcomings. i.e. Its UVW mapping function isn't too great, it's OK for simple things, but you'll want something like UltimateUnwrap3D for complicated texturing. It's cheap and there's a free demo.
www.unwrap3d.com/

The animation side could be better too, so I've seen a lot of people using CharacterFX instead as it supports Milkshape files. Again, it's commercial, but cheap and there's a free demo.
www.insanesoftware.de/

Many of the issues you'll come across with the Milkshape vs MAX decision will be about the DTS exporter.

MAX has a more "Complete" exporter and it can support DSQ files for animation which let you use the same animation files for multiple meshes in the game.

Milkshape supports multiple animations per model, but the animations have to be in the same file and special textures have to be set up in order for the exporter to know which frames make up which animation. It's a bit of a kludge, but it works.

MAX also supports animated textures, multiple levels of detail and blend animations.

Milkshape's exporter "Currently" does not support these although I hear there is work being done to address some of these, notably the Animated textures and the Levels of detail. You'll want to keep your eye on the forums for this.


However, I have written a small free program called MASH to combine milkshape files containing animations into a single file so you can have all of your animations in a set of files somewhere then add them to your character meshes later. It even adds the special textures for you.
www.cerebral-bicycle.co.uk/viewdoc.asp?doc=282


I hope this has answered your question a little.

You could always look at Blender, it's free and there's a DTS exporter for it. It's interface isn't for everyone but it may just be what you need.
www.blender3d.org/

#2 Lower cost may be getting it by warez, but of course that's illegal :P Milkshape 3d, has some problems, the DTS exporter in the TGE gives me a Fatal Exception Error in Windows XP. I'm not sure if it's because of the exporter, or the operator :P

Milkshape is actually pretty easy to use for it's cost, and does most of what 3D Max does. I wouldn't consern yourself with going for the high dollar stuff. The point of milkshape was to make 3d modeling programs available to everyone. It may not do EVERYTHING 3D Max does, but it's good for what you pay.

#3 I'm not sure about the suspension animations, I've read on these forums that a milkshape modeller managed to get 1 wheel working but not all four.. that could be an unrelated issue though. Lloyd Godsey has made a milkshape wheeled vehicle resource, but it doesn't have suspension animations. They probably would be blend animations as they have the potential to all play at the same time.
www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=5038

To be honest, I've not looked deeply into wheeled vehicles yet and my 1st hover vehicle turned into a sled. which was amusing. But I will. I plan to put a 4x4 quad bike and a regular bike into my game.. (the bike should be an interesting project on its own) as well as jeeps, tanks and things.

I'm hoping that when I get around to that part, the DTS exporter will be mature enough to support blend animations and animated textures.

It's a pity that the support for Milkshape is lacking as it appears that the only way to get decent quality animations and modelling is to use specific high end applications.. But I thought this was supposed to be for Independant developers...

Perhaps that last comment was unfair as I know a lot of people have been working very hard to write exporters for MS, Blender and now Maya. I also heard there's a Truespace/GameSpace plugin... being developed??

Trouble is, I can't get my head around Blender, I can't afford 3D Studio or Maya and I don't like Truespace that much.

Milkshape is easy. It does everything I need and no more ($25). I can master it easily and concentrate on building the artwork.
I unwrap with Ultimate Unwrap 3D ($39.95) and animate in Milkshape, then put them all into a single file with MASH ($free) to be exported to Torque.

Easy.

Total cost, $64.95

#4 Or you can go find the outdated version of Unwrap 3D which was then called LithUnwrap and was free. Now you've cut your costs in half! ; )

#5 Huh, don't beat on me if I'm wrong (Xp), but aren't the suspension anims totally facultative as the wheeled vehicle code generates its own suspension travel animations ?
(ie check Tim Gift's .plan file, among other places this was mentioned)

#6 The engine will move the wheelhubs (and thuis the wheels) up and down for you depending on the amount of travel you allow the springs. However, you do need to set up a set of animations for the suspension arms that the engine can interpolate from. In Max, it's done by setting frame 0 with all four suspension arms all the way down, frame 1 has one of the arms all the way up, frame 2 has another, and so on (or something like that, I've never set it myself...only glanced at the .max file once). The engine then can figure out how to move the arms around by how you've set them up in those frames. That may be considered blended animation, I dunno. I've also never tried it in MilkShape, so I don't know if it can be done in that program.

Peace,
-Rob

#7 There is also another *free* 3d modeler that you can use for basic stuff, granted it does not handle animation or texturing, it's kinda a bare bones app

Wings 3d

found here: www.wings3d.com

Should help out. I find the ability to rotate things around and look at my project from differant angles very useful...

good luck

#8 The Lightwave Exporter matches the 3DStudioMax for almost feature for feature and exceeds it in a couple of cases and on top of that it is about 100x easier to use.