Getting Published
by Eric Anderson · in General Discussion · 12/16/2003 (10:13 pm) · 9 replies
I'm _very_ interested in getting our latest game published. It has recently been named a finalist for the 2004 IGF. The game is Bontago if you've seen it.
Anyhow, here comes the questions. We're students, so we made Bontago on student-liscensed software, obviously not useable for publishing. So we assume we would need to get valid lisences before being published. No problem if the publisher up-fronts the cost of the software.
How do we get a publisher? Should we just sit idle or be emailing people all over the place? the 65% royalty from garagegames seems like a choice. I'm not really into the whole royalty thing, I just want someone to pay off my college loan :P, do publishers 'buy' games with one large lump sum? Anyone have any other advice?
Basically, heres the way I see it would go. A publisher agrees to publish the game and a deal is reached. The current version of the game becomes the 'shareware/demo' version, and a new/and or updated version is created (the one being published). The game sells for $10-20.
Any other help is much appreciated.
-Eric
Anyhow, here comes the questions. We're students, so we made Bontago on student-liscensed software, obviously not useable for publishing. So we assume we would need to get valid lisences before being published. No problem if the publisher up-fronts the cost of the software.
How do we get a publisher? Should we just sit idle or be emailing people all over the place? the 65% royalty from garagegames seems like a choice. I'm not really into the whole royalty thing, I just want someone to pay off my college loan :P, do publishers 'buy' games with one large lump sum? Anyone have any other advice?
Basically, heres the way I see it would go. A publisher agrees to publish the game and a deal is reached. The current version of the game becomes the 'shareware/demo' version, and a new/and or updated version is created (the one being published). The game sells for $10-20.
Any other help is much appreciated.
-Eric
#2
If your hoping to sell a commercil game, last time I did one was back in 2000. and in order to get royalties the game had to sell 60,000 copies. Quite a gamble for a PC game as most don't sell anywhere near this many .
12/16/2003 (11:50 pm)
Same here, we have been getting several offers to publish our game, regional boxed veriosn. So far we have gon ethe free publishing of our game demo on maggazine cover disks hoping this will bring in revenue. But you have to be real carefull with any deal that offers money up front as you will often restrict your IP.If your hoping to sell a commercil game, last time I did one was back in 2000. and in order to get royalties the game had to sell 60,000 copies. Quite a gamble for a PC game as most don't sell anywhere near this many .
#3
This is a classic case of why students should make sure they use an engine like the Torque where the commercial or indie rights are clear cut. If you were using the Torque, you would already have the rights. How much do you need to pay for rights to your engine?
If you are lucky enough to get a box publishing deal, the advances are very small, if you can get them at all. The royalties are even smaller due to the fact that box publishers take on inventory risk even if they do not pay for development. Make sure to keep your on-line rights separate from your box rights. On-line publishers do not give royalty advances.
We have played Bontango here at GarageGames. It is an interesting game, and we would be willing to publish it. However, GG does not pay advances on royalties.
I am willing to continue to discuss this in the forums, but you may want to take it off-line to email. jefft@garagegames.com
-Jeff Tunnell GG
12/17/2003 (9:33 am)
Eric,This is a classic case of why students should make sure they use an engine like the Torque where the commercial or indie rights are clear cut. If you were using the Torque, you would already have the rights. How much do you need to pay for rights to your engine?
If you are lucky enough to get a box publishing deal, the advances are very small, if you can get them at all. The royalties are even smaller due to the fact that box publishers take on inventory risk even if they do not pay for development. Make sure to keep your on-line rights separate from your box rights. On-line publishers do not give royalty advances.
We have played Bontango here at GarageGames. It is an interesting game, and we would be willing to publish it. However, GG does not pay advances on royalties.
I am willing to continue to discuss this in the forums, but you may want to take it off-line to email. jefft@garagegames.com
-Jeff Tunnell GG
#4
Bontago would look great with the Torque engine- with realtime rendered scenery (the current version just looks like a skybox/backdrop). Unfortunately, I was never able to play this game because of hardware/driver issues. It doesn't like my GeForce 4 card (Torque would fix this as well)
12/17/2003 (9:45 am)
I originally thought he meant the "engine" wasn't licensed too. But after reading it again, it looks like maybe the student-licensed software would be something like the student-version of 3D Studio, or Photoshop or something.Bontago would look great with the Torque engine- with realtime rendered scenery (the current version just looks like a skybox/backdrop). Unfortunately, I was never able to play this game because of hardware/driver issues. It doesn't like my GeForce 4 card (Torque would fix this as well)
#5
Most publishers lawyers worth a damn would want to see proof the licensed software before they did anything like give you money for something.
12/17/2003 (9:52 am)
I also assumed the "student licensed" software was refering to the content creation software and maybe the IDE and compiler used. Even if they used Torque to drive the game, if they used an "educational licensed" version of ANYTHING to actually write additional code or create content they need legit retail copies before they start shopping it around. Most publishers lawyers worth a damn would want to see proof the licensed software before they did anything like give you money for something.
#6
-Jeff Tunnell GG
12/17/2003 (10:27 am)
Since Bontango is shown on the Tokamak site, I assume they used a student version of that physics engine. If Tokamak does not give them a good deal, i.e. nearly free, I would recommend replacing the Tokamk physics with the open sourced ODE.-Jeff Tunnell GG
#7
http://www.gamasutra.com/resource_guide/20030121/jacobson_01.shtml
http://www.gamasutra.com/resource_guide/20030121/kennedy_03.shtml
can figure out how to create your own through these articles.
12/17/2003 (10:36 am)
Or you could write a physics lib of your own based on the vertlet physics article on gamasutra. thats what we did for our new game we just started.http://www.gamasutra.com/resource_guide/20030121/jacobson_01.shtml
http://www.gamasutra.com/resource_guide/20030121/kennedy_03.shtml
can figure out how to create your own through these articles.
#8
As far as I know, Tokamak /is/ completely free for commercial use. Pretty unrestricted license agreement, too.
12/17/2003 (11:29 am)
Quote:If Tokamak does not give them a good deal, i.e. nearly free
As far as I know, Tokamak /is/ completely free for commercial use. Pretty unrestricted license agreement, too.
#9
To clear things up a bit, we don't have commercial liscensed versions of VS.NET or 3dstudio max (academic versions). Tokamak is free, so no problem there. Everything else we own a liscense for (like the terragen scenes).
The only thing is with our school, I need to discuss it with them more (they effectively own the game, but would gladly publish given the opportunity, least, thats what I'm told - win-win for everyone)
From another team here (at DigiPen) who had the chance to publish, they would of had to rewrite the game using commercial liscnsed software. That is no problem for us, we'd be more than willing if it was going to be published. (fix one or two problems in the process!)
So yeah thanks for the help, I'll see what DigiPen has to say.
-Eric
12/17/2003 (1:11 pm)
Ah right cool thanks for the help.To clear things up a bit, we don't have commercial liscensed versions of VS.NET or 3dstudio max (academic versions). Tokamak is free, so no problem there. Everything else we own a liscense for (like the terragen scenes).
The only thing is with our school, I need to discuss it with them more (they effectively own the game, but would gladly publish given the opportunity, least, thats what I'm told - win-win for everyone)
From another team here (at DigiPen) who had the chance to publish, they would of had to rewrite the game using commercial liscnsed software. That is no problem for us, we'd be more than willing if it was going to be published. (fix one or two problems in the process!)
So yeah thanks for the help, I'll see what DigiPen has to say.
-Eric
Torque Owner Randall
Typically, the way a Publisher works is they will give you a lump sum up front to pay for the development of the game- its actually a LOAN. From that amount, you pay for the tools, the salaries, etc... ie EVERYTHING that goes into the development of the game. When the game launches, your royalties are deferred to pay that PUBLISHER LOAN back. So if your game sells miserably, you never pay that LOAN back, making it much more difficult if not impossible to get another contract with that Publisher.
Now I am not saying thats how ALL publishing works, but I have seen many variations based on this concept.
Sitting idle won't get you anywhere. Assuming your game is so badass that Publishers will be knocking down your door will never happen either (regardless if the game is the equivalent second coming or not). Its one of those things where you have to know how to market and push your game forward, and most importantly, close the deal.
There are many companies that will pay a "lump sum" for a game, although its usually a low-end figure, and they take absolute control of the IP. Remember, they are in this to make money, not do you any favors. OEM deals are more difficult to get in the PC industry, but they buy large quantities at once as long as it suits their hardware. (10,000 - 100,000 licenses or more at pennies per unit).
I am not a huge fan of Publishing, and we have actually turned down many proposals in order to retain control of our IP. I can see how some would want the security and so-called fame that goes along with getting published, but its just not for me.