MAX for levels????

#1 There are a few exporters and tutorials on the site that talk about using a plugin called Max2Map to do this, but be forewarned that getting the plugin to work is like trying to practice home dentistry on yourself :)

#2 Yeah,
I have done a little searching around and I did manage to find that plugin. I also found a pretty nice script for max called "Game Level Builder 2.2" that allows you to draw out splines in max for your levels, it makes the walls, windows, floors and outputs them as a .map file. I guess the problem I am having is the workflow for level design in is TGE, and apparently other engines, is completely different than what I am used to using on some of the proprietary engines I have worked on.

I guess what I really need to know is what is the reason everyone is using Worldcraft or Qwark? Is it that there is no reliable .map exporter for Max? What I am looking at doing is a real cartoony organic environment....will a tool like Worldcraft do that????

#3 The reason that Max isn't a good choice for interior creation is that the interior engine is based off of Quake technology - ie, brush based CSG. This is great for efficient accurate collision checks and such, but the downside is that it excludes polygon-based modelling tools like Max, because you need fine control over the brushes to be able to create high-quality output.

It isn't so much that there's no good .map exporter for Max, but that it would be very difficult to make one. WC and Quark are tools designed for the creation of this sort of data, and Max isn't.

This might change in the future, but for the moment, this is how it is... Sorry. :)

#4 GLB2.2 is a really nice tool. You can do alot with it. You still have to use Worldcraft to texture correctly though.

Quark or Worldcraft is pretty capable but if your really out there with your style for geometry you might have hard time. Both have a learning curve.

Matt

#5 Ben, just a thought.

Can't we locate the max2map author and team him up with the map2diff author to create a max2dif?

Offer a bit of money and they might be willing.

#6 I've met the map2dif author... I think it's safe to say that he probably won't be interested. :)

Though I don't know who wrote max2map.

#7 Bradley, Duncan,

At this point it would really be best to learn how to use Quark or another CSG Brush tool (such as World Craft). The learning curve is steep, but the results will ultimately be much less buggy and much less likely to have weird collision problems than something created in Max.

Max is not really designed for the sort of effeciency of polygon creation that is needed for high performance CSG levels. It can be done, but its sort of like trying to butter your toast with a battleaxe - you are a lot less likely to have mishaps if you just learn how to use the butterknife.

#8 I hope that GarageGames would take a initiative in making direct conversion easier for max users (max -> torque), actually for all other art package users (maya, xsi, lw -> torque). I believe a direct conversion saves the entire community alot of valueable man time wasted just learning tools that are not familiar to the artist. Without a direct conversion is quite harmful to the progress of this community as people are not focused on content creation, but on tool learning. We are not buying Torque to invent an engine nor an editor, but to use Torque to create an indi-game. I hope this makes sense. I am aware of the lack of BSP in most of those packages, but I seriousely hope that writing a plugin with BSP testing and portal feature is too difficult

Also I hope a fix to the physique incompatibility would be awesome, as well. It is too percurliar seeing so many people are using Biped rig, but torque is not supporting Physique from the same package. ;) just a thought.

#9 I am no coder so my input on this is very subjective.

Using anything but a CSG editor to create interiors is a major pain to get the hang of altough I won't say impossible because of my experiments with the gameSpace Map Exporter.

What makes it hard is the way a 3D Modelling Software creates geometry, it doesn't have to take all the rules and regulation of the TGE renderer in consideration and therefor it is very easy to create something that isn't allowed inside Torque.
Even if you experiment enough with Quark/Hammer you will be able to produce illegal geometry.
And so, making a direct conversion is REALLY hard to achieve, the exporter have to be really well written to understand what it is you wish to produce, otherwise the end result will either be invalid, unefficient or plain wrong.

But hey there is exporters out there already, you say.
Well yes, there is. The biggest problem with ALL of these is that the author have to be very aware of the CSG method of producing geometry, and even then you might experience problems.

My workchain includes Quark as a final preprocessor for the .dif as this will better format the content to fit the engine.

#10 GG is working to improve all parts of the toolchain for Torque. This is a lot of ground, so with TSE, TNL, and other projects on our plate, you're just going to have to bear with us and work with what's there, or write your own solution.

You guys all have good points, and we're hearing them. :) But it's just not something we can get to at the moment.

#11 I will probably end up using max for dif modeling, and quark for levels. Which means I will have to invest a lot of time in quark before I even see basic level work done :(

But, what else can you do?...

#12 What I would like to say is that using Worldcraft / Quark is the right tools for building models in DIF.

I would say Quark 6.4 is relatively easy to set up and use.