MMOG - Priciples of Construction
by Raymond Bolander · in Technical Issues · 09/07/2003 (1:47 pm) · 30 replies
This is my first post on the private forums. My name is Ray.
I'm interested in the MMOG capabilities for Torque, and your thoughts on the implementation of such.
I fancy myself as a designer, writer, and a light scripter. I enjoy 3D modelling and photoshop, but I don't know very much about Networking coding. Heck I can barely read UML! :P
Don't get me wrong though, I understand programming pretty well. I'm a self taught master of microcontroller assembly and robotic design.
So my questions are as follows: (I tried to format this in a way that people can come back here later and read this over and learn something, so if you plan on responding, make it organized.)
1. What kind of changes are we talking about to make Torque work as an MMOG, using a client server architecture? (Of course this depends on a lot of factors, so generalize if you want)
2. What specifically would need to be modified? Are there certain parts of the engine that would need to be changed? State an example if you can.
3. What would be the first step in doing such a thing?
4. How can you tell if something you change in the engine (Adding hitboxes for characters for example) will affect the way you code the MMOG? Are there certain things you can change without worrying about?
5. What, in your opinion would be the easiest way to implement a small MMOG environment in torque. (I realize the is no 'easy' way, but what would be your preferred method ;))
6. What are the most likely problems that someone attempting an MMOG conversion might run into with torque?
I keep pretty up-to-date with the MMOG industry, and one thing that was been turing the cranks in my brain is nevrax -> An open source, free distributed library for developing MMOG worlds.
This seems like the perfect product to use for torque. What are your thoughts on this? If someone came up with a viable, intelligent project to implement this, would you be interested in joining?
Thanks for reading this over and spilling out your thoughts.
Regards,
Raymond.
I'm interested in the MMOG capabilities for Torque, and your thoughts on the implementation of such.
I fancy myself as a designer, writer, and a light scripter. I enjoy 3D modelling and photoshop, but I don't know very much about Networking coding. Heck I can barely read UML! :P
Don't get me wrong though, I understand programming pretty well. I'm a self taught master of microcontroller assembly and robotic design.
So my questions are as follows: (I tried to format this in a way that people can come back here later and read this over and learn something, so if you plan on responding, make it organized.)
1. What kind of changes are we talking about to make Torque work as an MMOG, using a client server architecture? (Of course this depends on a lot of factors, so generalize if you want)
2. What specifically would need to be modified? Are there certain parts of the engine that would need to be changed? State an example if you can.
3. What would be the first step in doing such a thing?
4. How can you tell if something you change in the engine (Adding hitboxes for characters for example) will affect the way you code the MMOG? Are there certain things you can change without worrying about?
5. What, in your opinion would be the easiest way to implement a small MMOG environment in torque. (I realize the is no 'easy' way, but what would be your preferred method ;))
6. What are the most likely problems that someone attempting an MMOG conversion might run into with torque?
I keep pretty up-to-date with the MMOG industry, and one thing that was been turing the cranks in my brain is nevrax -> An open source, free distributed library for developing MMOG worlds.
This seems like the perfect product to use for torque. What are your thoughts on this? If someone came up with a viable, intelligent project to implement this, would you be interested in joining?
Thanks for reading this over and spilling out your thoughts.
Regards,
Raymond.
About the author
#22
Thinking about it, having a conflict start, creating a 'conflict zone' that drops your party out of the MMO world and into a smaller networked game (be it FF-style or action-based), but still allowing communication with the outside world would allow for some really interesting combat mechanics, large-scale battles and people who enter into the 'conflict zone' would either be repelled (if you haven't called for help) or would join into your networked sub-session. Even with 32 players against a horde of monsters you could get away with several p2p concepts.
I'll have to think more about this - seems intriguing...
11/25/2003 (8:13 am)
Interesting... How would you handle having people join a battle mid-way? I mean, let's say that your party of 4-8 people is battling a lvl30 Dragon of a Really Mean Nature, and you're struggling to survive. In some MMO games currently, you could yell for help, and a passing party might start fighting alongside you. Would you allow other people to join these FF-style battles? Thinking about it, having a conflict start, creating a 'conflict zone' that drops your party out of the MMO world and into a smaller networked game (be it FF-style or action-based), but still allowing communication with the outside world would allow for some really interesting combat mechanics, large-scale battles and people who enter into the 'conflict zone' would either be repelled (if you haven't called for help) or would join into your networked sub-session. Even with 32 players against a horde of monsters you could get away with several p2p concepts.
I'll have to think more about this - seems intriguing...
#23
Looking at the game the Strategem team is working on I really like that game board floating in space. Well maybe my combat battle arena could be something like that. A changing battle board could represent the particular area your fighting in.
A game board that resembles a dungeon, town or on that resembles a forest area, mountain, etc. Combat would still be FF-style only players can warp out of the battle area.
Melv's FXshapeBlitter could really be helpful for having a large enemy party to fight. But the only thing I haven't work out is engaging the combat. :P
Towns and dungeons are a breeze too. On the world map are static shapes that represent a town, city, or point of interest which are also warp triggers which move players to those places which are once again seperate areas. :)
Anyway maybe in a few weeks we can have some stuff to show Iam getting hyped seeing all the games and resources coming out from other indy teams.
John H
11/26/2003 (3:07 pm)
Well in one of the ideas I got from Phil I could have a seperate battle arena area. Looking at the game the Strategem team is working on I really like that game board floating in space. Well maybe my combat battle arena could be something like that. A changing battle board could represent the particular area your fighting in.
A game board that resembles a dungeon, town or on that resembles a forest area, mountain, etc. Combat would still be FF-style only players can warp out of the battle area.
Melv's FXshapeBlitter could really be helpful for having a large enemy party to fight. But the only thing I haven't work out is engaging the combat. :P
Towns and dungeons are a breeze too. On the world map are static shapes that represent a town, city, or point of interest which are also warp triggers which move players to those places which are once again seperate areas. :)
Anyway maybe in a few weeks we can have some stuff to show Iam getting hyped seeing all the games and resources coming out from other indy teams.
John H
#24
For my own game, what I ultimately want to accomplish is scripted battles that are open to anyone who wants to participate, to further their civilization's standing in the galaxy. It's kind of the opposite of setting the area aside though...
11/26/2003 (4:12 pm)
@Johnny: On top of the seperate battle area idea, you could take a page from Anarchy Online and have dungeons spawned uniquely and only for those who it is meant for. You can do this for caves, dungeons, buildings, etc, anything that you can generate a floorplan for. Then when people enter that doorway to go in, they disappear from the rest of the world and show up in that dungeon.For my own game, what I ultimately want to accomplish is scripted battles that are open to anyone who wants to participate, to further their civilization's standing in the galaxy. It's kind of the opposite of setting the area aside though...
#26
But I have notice a few threads where people have made some progress toward dynamic datablocks generating during runtime.
I know the abilty is there in other ways I just have to fiqure it out. :) Which if I get in a real bind I will just post a question or two.
@Alan, yeah I signed up for Joshua Site I would be foolish not to keep up with Josh Kwel stuff. :)) I also been drawn into that python addiction uh I mean learning that great language Python.
Not to side track anything a few other networking solutions I have read about were.
Grid Computing using a nearest neighbor type topology -"Second life. This is interesting if there was a way to have ZONES talk to each other at their borders.
Using Unique IDed Terrain Landblocks kinda like Asheron Call and Stitching them together. Gorpe TERRAINMANGER does this already :)
Going to experiment with Eterna. Found another local friend who actually went to college and programs wants to help us out I been bringing him up to speed on what the team is trying to do.
And my personal FAV just wait for Joshua to come out with his stuff and expand the world through Zones but keep my game play style intact.
John H.
11/26/2003 (7:23 pm)
@Ted thats what Iam talking about, I dont know how to spawn random combat or random items once all the game objects have been loaded. :))But I have notice a few threads where people have made some progress toward dynamic datablocks generating during runtime.
I know the abilty is there in other ways I just have to fiqure it out. :) Which if I get in a real bind I will just post a question or two.
@Alan, yeah I signed up for Joshua Site I would be foolish not to keep up with Josh Kwel stuff. :)) I also been drawn into that python addiction uh I mean learning that great language Python.
Not to side track anything a few other networking solutions I have read about were.
Grid Computing using a nearest neighbor type topology -"Second life. This is interesting if there was a way to have ZONES talk to each other at their borders.
Using Unique IDed Terrain Landblocks kinda like Asheron Call and Stitching them together. Gorpe TERRAINMANGER does this already :)
Going to experiment with Eterna. Found another local friend who actually went to college and programs wants to help us out I been bringing him up to speed on what the team is trying to do.
And my personal FAV just wait for Joshua to come out with his stuff and expand the world through Zones but keep my game play style intact.
John H.
#27
@Johnny: If I'm not mistaken, you can still load objects during runtime, and this is what you can use to generate that content. Of course, when it comes to stuff like custom generated triggers and scripts, you will need to get funky with coding, but it's all good, and hopefully my mission generator code will be able to help people out with it when it gets mature enough if the issues isn't already addressed.
I would worry about what needs to be done after you get the story and gameplay together. From there, you can break down what the game needs into smaller, easy to swallow chunklets =)
11/26/2003 (9:43 pm)
@Alan: It's there. Refresh your cache ;)@Johnny: If I'm not mistaken, you can still load objects during runtime, and this is what you can use to generate that content. Of course, when it comes to stuff like custom generated triggers and scripts, you will need to get funky with coding, but it's all good, and hopefully my mission generator code will be able to help people out with it when it gets mature enough if the issues isn't already addressed.
I would worry about what needs to be done after you get the story and gameplay together. From there, you can break down what the game needs into smaller, easy to swallow chunklets =)
#28
My current experiment involves 4 systems: 2 dedicated Servers
2 Clients.
I have come to the conclusion that the world map will have to be constructed by hand. This is not a bad thing. The world map purpose is to for traveling, random combat battles and finding towns, and dungeons.
The entire world map is the same for both dedicated servers. I seen the resources for passing objects back and forth. Plus increasing ghosting objects. So I think there is plenty of info to start with for me to get my basic game functions going.
John H. :)
03/10/2004 (9:54 am)
A minor update to what I have been tinkering with.My current experiment involves 4 systems: 2 dedicated Servers
2 Clients.
I have come to the conclusion that the world map will have to be constructed by hand. This is not a bad thing. The world map purpose is to for traveling, random combat battles and finding towns, and dungeons.
The entire world map is the same for both dedicated servers. I seen the resources for passing objects back and forth. Plus increasing ghosting objects. So I think there is plenty of info to start with for me to get my basic game functions going.
John H. :)
#29
This is a really interesting piece of software, though I'm a little confused as to what exactly it does. The FAQ doesn't really say and you have to register in order to check out the downloads. Can you possibly clarify?
08/28/2005 (4:23 pm)
@Mike DrummelsmithThis is a really interesting piece of software, though I'm a little confused as to what exactly it does. The FAQ doesn't really say and you have to register in order to check out the downloads. Can you possibly clarify?
#30
08/28/2005 (4:48 pm)
Might want to check the dates on those posts...
Torque Owner Johnny Hill
The RPG demo me and my fellow 80's gang Anime/Manga team is working on involves developing a FF-style combat system. The world can be rich and open as we like. :)
But combat happens in FF-time. Battles are like chess games. The end result is the same somebody going to lose. But the in-between tactics and countertactics used in battle makes it fun.
John H