iT2D 2009 (1.4) - What am I missing here?

#1 I'm pretty frustrated on this and similar platform matters too.

I pointed out already during RC2, that the project msut change to iOS 4 as base sdk and use the target setting in the editor for the deployment target but again the QA let pass something totally inacceptable.

I can not really be that a QA lets something pass that violates even basic platform requirements to be accepted at all and no matter how young it is, there is also no way to businesswise excuse this.
The matter of iTorque and QA must be looked into and that fast and deep. This now was the Xth release of iTGB and we are still waiting on the first one that is NOT broken out of the box!

I doubt IA is handling their console branches this way, cause they owuld have lost their licenses long ago if they went through ignoring and violating the platform requirements that blatantly

#2 Torque needs to hire you Marc... I'm serious.

#3 Alright, noted. I'll get someone from Luma to provide an answer as a short term solution while I try to get a 1.4.1 beta out the door ASAP.

#4 Ok so I'm not the only one getting 4000 errors on a "ready to go" demo build

#5 @Marc - I'm glad to see you, well...can I say "rant" about this as well. You have always been insightful, albeit sarcastic (which I, for one, appreciate) at times, in all of your posts. To see that you are experiencing this same level of frustration helps me in knowing that I am not:

1. an idiot
2. alone in this dilemma
3. being shunned by IA or any of its affiliates for posting more negative comments than positive ones

In my humble opinion, I have experienced too much strife with this product since I downloaded my first version. I paid for a product that simply does not work.

Instead, I see all of this "effort" being spent on adding a useless tutorial that illustrates absolutely none of the features that make the iDevice platforms unique--nothing about handling multi-touch/gestures; nothing about building Universal apps.

I saw your post(s) about the base issues with the XCode project settings. The fact that these were ignored is ridiculous.

How the heck can IA release a product that simply does not work and then turn around and pat themselves on the back for a "job well done"?

@Johnny - I second the nomination. Grab Marc as a consultant for iTorque, IA!

@Torque employees developing for iT2D - Seriously. What is going on there? It is painfully obvious that you are not using XCode 3.2.3 with SDK 4, which is a requirement by Apple. If you were, you would be instantly greeted with our woes.

You cannot address this by saying "You have access to the source code". We paid for a product that does not work. We did not pay for source code.

Fix the documentation; fix the editor; fix the XCode project build settings (make them SDK 4 compliant); include Universal builds; remove all references to TGB from images/descriptions in the editor builds and documentation.

If you need help, contract more people.

#6 Frustration is understandable, just bear with me while I try to get this sorted out. I'm checking, but I think you are right in that no one had anything above 3.2 installed.

When this was first reported, I was very heads down in making sure the QA process was flowing and writing docs, so it completely slipped by me.

I'll get on this ASAP. On a related note:

Quote:useless tutorial

I realize the tutorial did not go into unique features, but it is going to be expanded to do so. But I think it is far from useless, and I'd appreciate the focus of this thread remains on rectifying this bug and not attacking hard work put into something.

#7 @Mich -

Quote:
I realize the tutorial did not go into unique features, but it is going to be expanded to do so. But I think it is far from useless, and I'd appreciate the focus of this thread remains on rectifying this bug and not attacking hard work put into something.

Fair enough. Just be ready to roll with the blows. When we, the consumers, see posts stating that you must head over to work on another platform's documentation, and will then return to us, it leaves a bad taste in our mouth--especially when the specific features for which we've been asking documentation of, are missing. My intent was not to make you feel as if what you were doing was pointless--rather, that it was ill-timed. The community has been asking for specifics for quite some time now that, to us, weigh more heavily on the success of our apps than what the Aquarium tutorial, in its present state, offers. It's ex pos facto and moot now, but I would have got out docs/blurbs/snippets on the requested items and then revisited an all-inclusive tutorial.

Quote:
When this was first reported, I was very heads down in making sure the QA process was flowing and writing docs, so it completely slipped by me.

While it's nice to see you take ownership of this issue, the blame for missing this surely can not rest solely on your shoulders. As you stated in various other posts, several IA employees view these threads. The above quote reads like you have too many hats to wear and IA seriously needs to consider bringing on more help if they wish for this product to be a success.

#8 @Brian - Thanks for taking the time to elaborating. For the documentation, once I can get through this Torque 3D doc crunch I plan on using a big chunk of my time to work on iTorque 2D iOS specific features. Adding them onto the Aquarium tutorial, or as mini-modules. As I said in the release thread, I'll have more details to post on this soon.

Quote:While it's nice to see you take ownership of this issue, the blame for missing this surely can not rest solely on your shoulders.

While I really appreciate you saying that, it does rest solely on my shoulders since I'm the Associate Producer. If something like this drops, it's on me. So, I'm going to pull a late night and early morning to see what I can do to get something more usable out the door before I head to Seattle for Casual Connect.

#9 @Mich - Ahh...with great power comes great responsibility. It sounds like, unfortunately, the Seattle trip will be more of a Haven't-Shaved-Showered-Or-Slept-In-Three-Days Connect for you. ;-)

Sadly, that's the price you must pay to see that Torque by Instant Action splash screen in all of our soon-to-be-released, wonderful apps. Ahh..speaking of which, I also noticed that the new splash screen (sans powerpuff girl) is not in the latest build. Can that be added to the fix, please?

Also, once the IA iTorque developers download and install the latest XCode (3.2.3) IDE, please have them use a Window-based Application, with Universal selected as the product type, for a template. Giving a simple text file describing what must be done in iT2D (even if it means touching the source) to have our apps work as Universal builds would be greatly appreciated.

My app, for example, provides more functionality and enhanced graphics for the iPad but not enough to warrant separate builds.

#10 @Mich - I did the same discourse an the past, he have the reason, maybe with some "angry" words, but he has the reason. I did talk about the wrong path of the framework libs on the past, it should use standards on all your works if you are trying to implement a good QA procedures. All the links or path need to point to standard sytem OS paths, not developer path of your team or luma team now like:

/Developer/Platforms/iPhoneOS.platform/Developer/SDKs/iPhoneOS3.2.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/CoreAudio.framework

In may case of mac.

Maybe another point to include in the package is that maybe its necessary to distribute different builds, for ex.: mac os x universal 32 bit, mac os x leopard 32 bit or mac os x snow leopard 64bit, I am not sure if the issues about that the sounds are not playing on mac platform, but yes on the device, its about compilation matters, for example.

Good luck and hope to have soon a good "without headache" release!

#11 @Carlos - Thank you for the good points.

@All - Regarding the splash screens, I could have sworn those were committed to the repo for the build. If you are in need of the splash screens before we upload them to the site or ship in the next build, you can e-mail me directly for the zip file: michaelp@torquepowered.com.

#12 @Mich - Will you continue to post updates to this thread or will you be starting a new sticky for discussion related to the forthcoming 1.4.1 patch?

Thanks

#13 If you're using Xcode 3.2.3 and want to build for iPhone you need to set your base SDK to 4.0 and your compiler to 4.2

If you want to build for iPad you need to set your base SDK to 3.2

This is done in Project/edit project settings in Xcode.

I was able to figure this out by reading the forums and about 20 minutes of digging around in Xcode.

I have absolutely no idea how anyone new to iT2D can get anything done - there are too many bugs and assumptions and essential work-arounds hidden in the forums for anyone with less than a year's experience working with this engine to do anything productive with it. Every new version breaks something important. The clone() function stopped working in the first 1.4 beta, particles stopped working in 1.4 Release Candidate.

I like this engine, and I've been able to get things done with it, but only because I have been using TGB for years and I spend a LOT of time reading the forums, posting bugs, talking on IRC and even teaching a class on Torque (which really helps you find work-arounds).

It's obvious that there are simply not enough staff working on this engine to keep it well maintained. I don't think the developers are doing a bad job really - they're just understaffed and overworked and so major bugs are slipping through.

#14 @Brian - For the time being, we will use this thread for immediate solutions like what Conor posted. When the 1.4.1 Beta goes up, I will create a new thread. My goal is to try and get that out before I fly out to Seattle. Normally during a conference my only free hours are after conference floor closing. However, I'm flying in early on Sunday so I can get work done from the hotel if I can't get it out today.

#15 @Conor -

Quote:they're just understaffed and overworked and so major bugs are slipping through.

I always feel this way, but there's not much that can be done about it right now. I just have to make full use of my non-core working hours to make up for the lack of extra hands.

#16 Maybe do something like how our company (my main job) works - we employ a number of customers on a Q&A basis, they get to do our testing for a brief period after we've finished testing it.

They then feel empowered, they get listened to, plus they do find the odd things we simply miss (by mostly over thiking as we know our software) and we then get to release knowing some customers are automatically happy.

Sure it costs us a little bit of money, but that cost is easily made up with lots of happy faces and thus more support contracts being renewed.

Just my 2p here, i'm waiting to release my first iPhone app, and when i think iTorque2d is ready for my n00bness i find multiple threads giving me reason to wait a little longer, simply put i want a straight forward process i don't want to have to wade through fixing issues (just yet until i have more experience).

Cheers

#17 @Conor - That is some good general advice for everyone to know, and would be a wise addition to the documentation. Unfortunately, it does not fix the XCode project build generated by the latest iT2D release (for me at least). Out of curiosity, are you using XCode 3.2.3 (1688) with iOS SDK 4.0.1, on OSX 10.6.4?

@Mich - Thanks for the update.

@Colin - The process you describe is essentially what the Beta process at IA entails. Unfortunately, certain oversights, combined with the mid-way introduction of a formal QA phase, allowed a product with valid negative feedback to get pushed through as a final release, without those issues being addressed.

Hopefully, this situation will be a great learning experience for IA's new QA department and practices will be adopted to help prevent future snafus.

#18 Brian - Yes I'm using all the latest software. See this thread for more info.
www.torquepowered.com/community/forums/viewthread/117839

#19 Nice thread! ;).

It is nice to see other posting caustic remarks. I like that. In my opinion, all of this "GG you are wonderful, thanks for the update.." crap is getting old and I hate it. People need to smell the roses and wise up.

I started in March, with version 1.3.1 and although I was frustrated I decided to continue and I've now reached a point where I can create things fairly quickly without having to visit the forums every hour. I was hoping for a much better 1.4, but I see little improvement, and for now I am sticking with 1.3.1, which I can at least use. I downloaded 1.4 once, and then when I saw that they shipped the same old BS PDFs that I already had from 1.3.1, I didn't even bother trying the software. That documentation is totally useless, and I am amazed that they shipped the same crap. I mean, I could spend one day and write better documentation. There are a lot of out of work sofware and engineering experts who could spend a few hours and write much more useful docs. All I can say is that GG must be short on resources and revenue, otherwise this would have been sorted out months ago. I'm currently out of work so it makes me seethe when I see such BS work from people who are being paid for a wage.

Once I get my game finished I will be amazed if I decide to continue with Torque. I'm not impressed.

#20 @Conor - Yes, I already posted in that thread as well. The solution provided is not working for me as I cannot follow all of the steps (certain fields are missing and therefore unmodifiable). There simply has to be something different in the combination of SDKs/apps that I am using for this bug to be present.