Cartography Shop Author willing to support Torque
by Johnny Hill · in General Discussion · 06/24/2003 (6:13 am) · 100 replies
JoshKlint
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 148
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:32 am Post subject:
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I'd be interested in supporting the Torque engine directly by writing a .dif exporter. It is also possible to export a .map, but then you lose the detail meshes, since .map only supports specific geometry types.
What you could do is get the author(s) of torque to contact me if they are interested in using CShop3 as the official Torque editor. I know it sounds self-important, but I really don't have time to contact them, though I will certainly think about doing that kind of thing later when I get a few things out of the way.
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I posted a Question on his board about how I like using the torque engine.
I know Cartography Shop isnt free but 40.00 US bucks isnt so bad for a tool that could directly export buildings into the Dif format that Torque uses. I believe in the power of the torque engine guys. But I also believe in finding tools to bring it out. I believe Cartography Shop could. In only a few days I was making some beautiful stuff just playing with it.
When I get my SDK, will that allow me access to the Dif Format. One more tool couldnt hurt could it. Come on Guys. I personally will be willing to spend time and resources seeing this happen but unfortunately (Iam not a AUTHOR(s) of Torque. heh
The man Mr. Klint seems to be a big indy game engine supporter. But he is also a business man. Heh :) (Official Torque Editor) maybe A Official Torque Editor :) A cool one at that.
Any input needed and appreciated :)
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 148
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:32 am Post subject:
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I'd be interested in supporting the Torque engine directly by writing a .dif exporter. It is also possible to export a .map, but then you lose the detail meshes, since .map only supports specific geometry types.
What you could do is get the author(s) of torque to contact me if they are interested in using CShop3 as the official Torque editor. I know it sounds self-important, but I really don't have time to contact them, though I will certainly think about doing that kind of thing later when I get a few things out of the way.
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I posted a Question on his board about how I like using the torque engine.
I know Cartography Shop isnt free but 40.00 US bucks isnt so bad for a tool that could directly export buildings into the Dif format that Torque uses. I believe in the power of the torque engine guys. But I also believe in finding tools to bring it out. I believe Cartography Shop could. In only a few days I was making some beautiful stuff just playing with it.
When I get my SDK, will that allow me access to the Dif Format. One more tool couldnt hurt could it. Come on Guys. I personally will be willing to spend time and resources seeing this happen but unfortunately (Iam not a AUTHOR(s) of Torque. heh
The man Mr. Klint seems to be a big indy game engine supporter. But he is also a business man. Heh :) (Official Torque Editor) maybe A Official Torque Editor :) A cool one at that.
Any input needed and appreciated :)
About the author
#2
06/24/2003 (6:33 am)
Do you have a link to the editor? Some screenshots and stuff... not sure If I've already seen this one.
#3
@Mark I understand what you are saying (uh writing). But I believe that Cartography Shop 3 will be very flexible in writing custom export formats. Maybe he needs the .Dif format as a guide, so further Torque related formats that follow can be easily implemented.
@Xavier the link is at top Xavier download the demo its free plus there is a demo FPS game made with DarkBasic that use CS for the level :) I know DB why not a torque one heh.
Either way if the SDK allows access to the DIF format specfics and if CS3 lives up to be the end all editor for editors I plan on doing some experimenting even if it means making .maps with CS going the Map2Diff road.
I do have some tribes 2 stuff so Iam going to experiment with that by importing one of my buildings into a tribes game. I got Morian so that will give me something to try until this friday when I get the good stuff :)
Thanks for the input guys, Without having the SDK I feel so limited LOL :) Come on FRIDAY :)
06/24/2003 (6:54 am)
Www.leadwerks.com/cshop/@Mark I understand what you are saying (uh writing). But I believe that Cartography Shop 3 will be very flexible in writing custom export formats. Maybe he needs the .Dif format as a guide, so further Torque related formats that follow can be easily implemented.
@Xavier the link is at top Xavier download the demo its free plus there is a demo FPS game made with DarkBasic that use CS for the level :) I know DB why not a torque one heh.
Either way if the SDK allows access to the DIF format specfics and if CS3 lives up to be the end all editor for editors I plan on doing some experimenting even if it means making .maps with CS going the Map2Diff road.
I do have some tribes 2 stuff so Iam going to experiment with that by importing one of my buildings into a tribes game. I got Morian so that will give me something to try until this friday when I get the good stuff :)
Thanks for the input guys, Without having the SDK I feel so limited LOL :) Come on FRIDAY :)
#4
Still I think 40 dollars for non-commercial use is a bit too much... imagine we use it for our games.. and then each modder or mapper has to pay 40 dollars just to make a custom map for the game. Definetly not good, experience tells that mappers won't pay to map. (they sometimes even expect being paid for it :) )
06/24/2003 (8:18 am)
Yes, this is the one I was thinking of... doesn't look bad.. but I would download the demo if I had windows :)Still I think 40 dollars for non-commercial use is a bit too much... imagine we use it for our games.. and then each modder or mapper has to pay 40 dollars just to make a custom map for the game. Definetly not good, experience tells that mappers won't pay to map. (they sometimes even expect being paid for it :) )
#5
06/24/2003 (10:52 am)
Those guys would be hard press for 40 bucks to get a map editor to turn my game into Smurfs unleashed. :) LOL. But I will probably pursue this anyway CS3 is suppose to allow custom exporters to be made I think Josh just need permission from the authors to officially support a particular engine format.
#7
06/24/2003 (11:23 am)
Mmm... what if they have a license on the map format? quake's bsp is open format... but some games might have a close policy.
#8
06/24/2003 (11:29 am)
They legally can't protect a file format unless they have some kind of patent on the technology used to format the data. AFAIK no game or game engine company has such a patent.
#9
I did a search for the .dif format but came up with a bunch of stuff on the web. Tried to pin it down to Tribes .dif format heh.
Yes Iam that hyped about wanted to add some more tools to my creation bag LOL. or maybe its the colas for breakfast lunch and dinner. :)
06/24/2003 (6:14 pm)
@Mark didnt know that. So if I had the file formats specification I could write my own bit of code that converts geometry to that particular format.I did a search for the .dif format but came up with a bunch of stuff on the web. Tried to pin it down to Tribes .dif format heh.
Yes Iam that hyped about wanted to add some more tools to my creation bag LOL. or maybe its the colas for breakfast lunch and dinner. :)
#10
A good starting point would be the map2dif tool. You need an engine license to have the source code for that though.
06/24/2003 (8:03 pm)
There's no much info on .dif format... so good luck! :)A good starting point would be the map2dif tool. You need an engine license to have the source code for that though.
#11
As far as dif formats, I don't see a problem. It is slow to change as it is, and perhaps a commercial venture would be more apt to add optimizations and extras like full radiosity, including light f/x (his radiosity does not do that yet).
Or, maybe I'm just dreaming and will soon be picked up by 12 beautiful angels and take me to the land of Errorfree.
-Eric
07/31/2003 (5:58 pm)
Johnny, I dont know if you are monitoring this or not. You might write to Jeff Tunnell directly and see what he thinks. As far as dif formats, I don't see a problem. It is slow to change as it is, and perhaps a commercial venture would be more apt to add optimizations and extras like full radiosity, including light f/x (his radiosity does not do that yet).
Or, maybe I'm just dreaming and will soon be picked up by 12 beautiful angels and take me to the land of Errorfree.
-Eric
#12
I downloaded the new demo and was awestruck. coming from a Artist background it didnt take me long to see my work visualize.
Custom exporters can be made for it. I downloaded the SDK plugins and started to strain my brain over it.
Once again Iam not opting out on the free side of indie developing but its only 64.00 US dollars for Cartography Shop 3 and it looks UNREAL heh. Streamlining is a big thing or(weakness) that I got.
Torque SDK $100.00 (The Main Man)
Cartography Shop V3 $64.00 (Interiors)
Milkshape 3D $20.00 (Shapes, Characters)
12-Pack of Coca Cola $ 9.99 (local)
Time spend designing Priceless heh
Torque is great for assembling everything but creating should be just as easy.
Joshua Ritter idea of power tools is great too.
08/01/2003 (7:22 am)
@Eric yeah I been monitoring alright. Cartography Shop V3 is out and it looks fantastic. Josh has got a great program its simple quick and easy. I downloaded the new demo and was awestruck. coming from a Artist background it didnt take me long to see my work visualize.
Custom exporters can be made for it. I downloaded the SDK plugins and started to strain my brain over it.
Once again Iam not opting out on the free side of indie developing but its only 64.00 US dollars for Cartography Shop 3 and it looks UNREAL heh. Streamlining is a big thing or(weakness) that I got.
Torque SDK $100.00 (The Main Man)
Cartography Shop V3 $64.00 (Interiors)
Milkshape 3D $20.00 (Shapes, Characters)
12-Pack of Coca Cola $ 9.99 (local)
Time spend designing Priceless heh
Torque is great for assembling everything but creating should be just as easy.
Joshua Ritter idea of power tools is great too.
#13
I asked for Help heh. The emails are flying in cyberspace now.
08/01/2003 (7:49 am)
I took the plunge now Iam getting the pennies ready to purchase the full thing. and spend a better portion of brain and cola getting these two to work together. (yeah right)I asked for Help heh. The emails are flying in cyberspace now.
#14
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=11928
Source is available (or will be once they get the ftp up and running again) so it's a leg up on this tool.
08/01/2003 (8:22 am)
The product looks interesting. Another option is this thread:www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=11928
Source is available (or will be once they get the ftp up and running again) so it's a leg up on this tool.
#15
08/04/2003 (6:07 pm)
Well i personally own cartography I bought it when it was in version 2. I gotta give the guy a big thumbs up. He gave all of us who bought v2 v3 for Free. Hes a good guy and you get your money worth out of em. I really hope for an option that he spaeks of as im now jsut moved from blitz to here. :_) BTW this si my first post.
#16
08/04/2003 (7:25 pm)
I don't see the need for open source anything related to Cartography Shop, it is not like Worldcraft is/was open source? Same with 3D Studio Max or Milkshape for that matter?
#17
08/04/2003 (7:35 pm)
I think the concern was with letting a 3rd party potentially have control over the .dif format. IE: Cartography shop becomes the de facto standard for TGE games and then decides not to support any .dif format updates (for example).
#18
There is NOTHING that CLEANLY supports the Torque pipeline right now, which I believe is one of the MAJOR reasons that so few projects have come to fruition using Torque as a base.
I think GG should be willing and happy to GIVE any support to anyone willing to support THEIR product natively.
Quark is open source, it is also about as obtuse a program to use as possible, and no one has released any native support for Torque for it.
OpenSource != good. Just by the fact that the source is available.
It Cartography Shop supports Torque natively I will be first in line to buy a copy. .map format support is not enough since I already know Worldcrap inside and out.
08/04/2003 (7:43 pm)
Since NOTHING supports .dif formats right now other than Torque I think it is a moot point. It is a plugin, and SDK owners have the .dif source, why does everyone look for every reason NOT to encourage Third-party support of Torque instead of looking for every reason TOO encourage these people.There is NOTHING that CLEANLY supports the Torque pipeline right now, which I believe is one of the MAJOR reasons that so few projects have come to fruition using Torque as a base.
I think GG should be willing and happy to GIVE any support to anyone willing to support THEIR product natively.
Quark is open source, it is also about as obtuse a program to use as possible, and no one has released any native support for Torque for it.
OpenSource != good. Just by the fact that the source is available.
It Cartography Shop supports Torque natively I will be first in line to buy a copy. .map format support is not enough since I already know Worldcrap inside and out.
#19
I would make the point that some third party closed source solution probably has no business being the 'offical' torque editor, short of some kind of co-branding arrangement with garagegames.
If that's the condition the guy wants to write a .dif exporter, well, GG can probably do better. ;)
08/04/2003 (8:38 pm)
Err. The Cartogtaphy shop author was apparently interested in being the 'official' torque editor.I would make the point that some third party closed source solution probably has no business being the 'offical' torque editor, short of some kind of co-branding arrangement with garagegames.
If that's the condition the guy wants to write a .dif exporter, well, GG can probably do better. ;)
#20
I think it would be something like he does with Dark Basic Pro creators. He sells his program on thier site as a Dark Basic level editor and on his own site as a custom game engine level editor. He offers support for his product but not Dark Basic stuff. We wouldnt be dependent on his editor alone but just have another option.
@Jarrod again. Your right about open source. Torque is really the only thing I care about when it comes to modding,changing or tweaking. So having access to its source is crucial. But for content creation like you touch on Jarrod I dont care if its open source or not. If I got to pay so I dont have to worry if my model x or map b got translated correctly I will. If it doesnt work well xx dollars lets me complain until it does. :)
@Mark No I dont think total control is what he is after :) he did state he may sound a bit self-important but I read some of Josh post and he is a level-headed thinker tries to help his customers even explaining the .CSM Format of his editor.
@Bill I seen that Bill and probably will download but only knowing the specfics of the .DIF format can anybody alter that into a useable torque tool the .MAP format is saturated with editors in one form or another. Like Jarrod said there "NOTHING" that exports into native .DIF format.
Joshua Ritter UNREAL Like Torque editor is high on my expectant list as well.
Perfect example to me is BRAVETREE those content packs are great and worth every dime!! :)
08/04/2003 (9:35 pm)
@ Jarrod, I see your point Jarrod. But would Josh need permission or just his own license copy of torque to give CS3 .Dif exporter capabilities. and others would have to pay for that smooth clean pipeline. I would!! :)I think it would be something like he does with Dark Basic Pro creators. He sells his program on thier site as a Dark Basic level editor and on his own site as a custom game engine level editor. He offers support for his product but not Dark Basic stuff. We wouldnt be dependent on his editor alone but just have another option.
@Jarrod again. Your right about open source. Torque is really the only thing I care about when it comes to modding,changing or tweaking. So having access to its source is crucial. But for content creation like you touch on Jarrod I dont care if its open source or not. If I got to pay so I dont have to worry if my model x or map b got translated correctly I will. If it doesnt work well xx dollars lets me complain until it does. :)
@Mark No I dont think total control is what he is after :) he did state he may sound a bit self-important but I read some of Josh post and he is a level-headed thinker tries to help his customers even explaining the .CSM Format of his editor.
@Bill I seen that Bill and probably will download but only knowing the specfics of the .DIF format can anybody alter that into a useable torque tool the .MAP format is saturated with editors in one form or another. Like Jarrod said there "NOTHING" that exports into native .DIF format.
Joshua Ritter UNREAL Like Torque editor is high on my expectant list as well.
Perfect example to me is BRAVETREE those content packs are great and worth every dime!! :)
Torque Owner Mz
He ought to simply support the .map format. I'm not sure why he doesn't already, since it's pretty much a de facto standard for bsp style geometry.
Anyhoo, if there were going to be an 'Official' Torque editor, it ought to be something with source available, like QuArK or perhaps some kind of special licensed version of Radiant.
EDIT - Correction: he'd have to open source the .dif plugin. Didn't notice he uses external plugins for export when I first posted. :)