Cipher Game Engine changes hands
by Bradley Newton Haug · in General Discussion · 06/03/2003 (5:46 pm) · 80 replies
http://www.cipherengine.com/index.php
either GG has a look and feel lawsuit, or have been spending money in odd places.
-brad
either GG has a look and feel lawsuit, or have been spending money in odd places.
-brad
About the author
#3
06/03/2003 (6:14 pm)
holy p00p batman, its a twin!
#4
06/03/2003 (6:14 pm)
Certainly looks similar. You've gotta admit that his engine doesn't look half bad though (take a gander at the temple video - wow, nice shadows!) 
#5
It appears some hard work has gone into the code... would like to at least peruse the sdk's headers before commiting $100.00... or play a demo + tools...
Of course, I am not very excited about proprietary tech + independent development these days...
-J
PS: It is tacky as hell to rip off the Garage Games site so blatantly ... regardless of the product's quality. I mean that "Start developing your own game today..." banner, come on, really.
06/03/2003 (6:55 pm)
My, my, that website is quite similar looking...It appears some hard work has gone into the code... would like to at least peruse the sdk's headers before commiting $100.00... or play a demo + tools...
Of course, I am not very excited about proprietary tech + independent development these days...
-J
PS: It is tacky as hell to rip off the Garage Games site so blatantly ... regardless of the product's quality. I mean that "Start developing your own game today..." banner, come on, really.
#6
-Jeff Tunnell GG
Edit: Toned down my initial response due to passage of time and realizing that I should not post unprofessionally in these forums.
06/03/2003 (6:59 pm)
I will see if I can contact Rik Heywood and discuss this issue further.-Jeff Tunnell GG
Edit: Toned down my initial response due to passage of time and realizing that I should not post unprofessionally in these forums.
#8
take no mercy Jeff, hang this SOB by his balls!
06/03/2003 (7:47 pm)
Sure glad I am not that chap! take no mercy Jeff, hang this SOB by his balls!
#9
06/03/2003 (8:39 pm)
Remeber the magic word: Court 
#10
Anyone want to ask Nvidia about this? I have a feeling they're BS'ing. Also look at this:
Re: 12.
A direct rip off from Torque's licensing.
Re: 13.
Torque v1.2.0 is the next release and yet they're supposely at v1.3? Don't tell me this guy is going to have a version war with us like with commericial Linux OSs, example Redhat jumping the gun from RH8 to RH9.0, and Mandrake at 9.1 or is it 11 1/2 now? ;)
I'd say that Cipher engine guy needs to be shotdown from the air and shown who's the b****! :P
Edited: Markup codes like bold, etc.. don't work with inside of eachother? I'll have to remember to send GG's webmaster a PHP script "patch" ;)
06/03/2003 (8:50 pm)
Quote:
15. Who else is using Cipher?
Cipher is being used by a number of organisations now, from start-ups to well established game studios. Cipher is also being used by research groups and major hardware vendors like NVidia and 3D Labs.
Anyone want to ask Nvidia about this? I have a feeling they're BS'ing. Also look at this:
Quote:
12. How much does it cost to use Cipher?
Only $100. Full information is available on the Cipher Licensing page.
13. What is the current version of Cipher?
The current version is Cipher 1.3, which is available now for purchase.
Re: 12.
A direct rip off from Torque's licensing.
Re: 13.
Torque v1.2.0 is the next release and yet they're supposely at v1.3? Don't tell me this guy is going to have a version war with us like with commericial Linux OSs, example Redhat jumping the gun from RH8 to RH9.0, and Mandrake at 9.1 or is it 11 1/2 now? ;)
I'd say that Cipher engine guy needs to be shotdown from the air and shown who's the b****! :P
Edited: Markup codes like bold, etc.. don't work with inside of eachother? I'll have to remember to send GG's webmaster a PHP script "patch" ;)
#11
Copy/Paste in action. Its a wonder that they(he?) didnt price the engine as 99.90$ .
I had thought that competition is a good thing but this one leaves bad taste in a mouth. Also, if there is some kind of competition, I'd prefer it somewhere in the future when GG has settled down and published quite a line of polished products.
Right now it worries me, such a fight might exhaust participants and destroy indie scene. Jeff, dont be suicidal:) we're with you.
It looks SO DAMN similar to GG that its not even funny.
06/03/2003 (10:00 pm)
Wow.Copy/Paste in action. Its a wonder that they(he?) didnt price the engine as 99.90$ .
I had thought that competition is a good thing but this one leaves bad taste in a mouth. Also, if there is some kind of competition, I'd prefer it somewhere in the future when GG has settled down and published quite a line of polished products.
Right now it worries me, such a fight might exhaust participants and destroy indie scene. Jeff, dont be suicidal:) we're with you.
It looks SO DAMN similar to GG that its not even funny.
#12
at first I thought GG might have been branching out, and of course I selfishly wanted to know where I would stand as a torque owner, perhaps a discount (not disparaging TGE here, but source is source, and I like all I can see).
Turns out it's a copycat. For shame. To take an idea and run with it is the nature of business, to take a business model, EULA, website look and feel, etc is quite another, it's plain rude, and actionable .
-brad
06/03/2003 (10:53 pm)
the engine itself doesn't have to be ripped to shreds, it did exist before this latest turn of events, what rik is doing is wrong, that is enough.at first I thought GG might have been branching out, and of course I selfishly wanted to know where I would stand as a torque owner, perhaps a discount (not disparaging TGE here, but source is source, and I like all I can see).
Turns out it's a copycat. For shame. To take an idea and run with it is the nature of business, to take a business model, EULA, website look and feel, etc is quite another, it's plain rude, and
-brad
#13
EDIT: HEHE HE CHANGED THE BANNER so its not a rip off anymore :P ;)
LOL
06/03/2003 (10:58 pm)
Lol i origionally thought this was just an old version of GG... then I looked again. OMG what a ripoff...EDIT: HEHE HE CHANGED THE BANNER so its not a rip off anymore :P ;)
LOL
#14
06/04/2003 (2:10 am)
Is this guy an SDK owner? IF we was stupid enough to blatently rip of GG's site like that I'd bet money he'd take code from Torque and put it in his engine.
#15
They had to close doors, and now someone is exploiting their engine. Check the synaptic soup site for some info:
http://www.synapticsoup.com/
06/04/2003 (2:35 am)
The site is a ripoff.... the engine defenetly not! It was around before Torque, and was develloped by synaptic soup. They had to close doors, and now someone is exploiting their engine. Check the synaptic soup site for some info:
http://www.synapticsoup.com/
#16
Speaking as someone who has yet to get the SDK (permission needs to be sought from she who must be obeyed to put our future in jeopody) - I did think like Ben "looks good" but selling a game is more the point of GG than the engine per se.
How pretty it looks is moot (that's largely a coding and art problem at the end of the day) if I need to get a publishing deal and / or get a few million page impressions on my own web site to sell a few % of the visitors a game I'm still at square one - or at least if I think I can do that there are $500000 + engines available that look better than both.
A common enough answer on here to the "does torque do $foo" is "Well you get the source, it can be added" and that's pretty much true - and exactly what Rik said when I asked if cipher supported linux - showing that, at the end of the day, the $100 engine isn't really what it's about, imo, it's selling the game.
06/04/2003 (3:19 am)
They don't seem to have copied the real idea that GG's thought of yet - selling games.Speaking as someone who has yet to get the SDK (permission needs to be sought from she who must be obeyed to put our future in jeopody) - I did think like Ben "looks good" but selling a game is more the point of GG than the engine per se.
How pretty it looks is moot (that's largely a coding and art problem at the end of the day) if I need to get a publishing deal and / or get a few million page impressions on my own web site to sell a few % of the visitors a game I'm still at square one - or at least if I think I can do that there are $500000 + engines available that look better than both.
A common enough answer on here to the "does torque do $foo" is "Well you get the source, it can be added" and that's pretty much true - and exactly what Rik said when I asked if cipher supported linux - showing that, at the end of the day, the $100 engine isn't really what it's about, imo, it's selling the game.
#17
06/04/2003 (4:44 am)
Copy and Paste. 
#18
Aside from emulation being the sincerest form of flattery (I'd say there was a bit too much flattery here...) the engine appears to be a good indoor engine which makes it a nice compliment to the torque engine. It is priced right and it appears to have good documentation and tool support.
Perhaps there is a synergy here. Rik can't be real happy financially at having to pedal his engine, he obviously would prefer to code, so maybe GG can do it for him?
Good business move for both groups. Mr Heywood gets his engine sold at a site that has a large established base. GG gets additional revenue and collaboration with another programmer (who might not have to keen an understanding of the plagiarism laws in the world but certainly makes a pretty spiffy looking game engine).
Besides - Heywood could take his website and point it to GG - and no one would even notice! A perfect transition...
06/04/2003 (5:32 am)
Instead of carrying on about the web site (which agree is so close to GG's that even a causal observer would think they are conjoined twins) I would wonder if the marketing guys have thought of bringing their title over to GG's and offering it for sale.Aside from emulation being the sincerest form of flattery (I'd say there was a bit too much flattery here...) the engine appears to be a good indoor engine which makes it a nice compliment to the torque engine. It is priced right and it appears to have good documentation and tool support.
Perhaps there is a synergy here. Rik can't be real happy financially at having to pedal his engine, he obviously would prefer to code, so maybe GG can do it for him?
Good business move for both groups. Mr Heywood gets his engine sold at a site that has a large established base. GG gets additional revenue and collaboration with another programmer (who might not have to keen an understanding of the plagiarism laws in the world but certainly makes a pretty spiffy looking game engine).
Besides - Heywood could take his website and point it to GG - and no one would even notice! A perfect transition...
#19
06/04/2003 (7:00 am)
Not only is Rik copying GG's website, he's also following in GG's footsteps with the same business model. I didn't realise that Synaptic Soup's had shut up shop until I read this.
Torque Owner Badguy
.. I just Cannot put my finger on it.