Insectoid - your feedback welcome
by Vern Jensen · in Torque Game Builder · 10/29/2009 (10:30 pm) · 15 replies
Well, my Galaga-inspired space shooter is finally near release! I would appreciate feedback from anyone who cares to try out the game. Although at this time, I've already gone through a fair amount of beta testing, so I'm mainly looking for showstopper bugs. (But any feedback is welcome.) If you try it, and *don't* find any problems, please post as well -- I'd like to know how many people are testing this.
Windows:
www.actionsoft.com/files/temp/InsectoidInstallerGM1.exe
Mac:
www.actionsoft.com/files/temp/InsectoidMacGM1.zip
The downloads are about 40 MB for Windows, and 42 MB for Mac. I do my development on the Mac, so the Windows version has gotten less testing (but is still tested), so anyone trying the Windows version out (esp. on Windows Vista or 7) -- your feedback is most helpful!
This is the limited shareware version -- almost the same as it will be when I release it in a few days (except with better-done installers.) So if you can find ANY way to get around that limitation and play more than you're supposed to be able to, please let me know! Likewise, if you run into bugs or have suggestions, let me know, but again -- I won't be changing gameplay at this point. Just show-stoppers stuff. Or very easy-to-fix things.
This has been in development over 2 years, which is too long for a game project, but at least it's finally about to see the light of day!
-Vern
Windows:
www.actionsoft.com/files/temp/InsectoidInstallerGM1.exe
Mac:
www.actionsoft.com/files/temp/InsectoidMacGM1.zip
The downloads are about 40 MB for Windows, and 42 MB for Mac. I do my development on the Mac, so the Windows version has gotten less testing (but is still tested), so anyone trying the Windows version out (esp. on Windows Vista or 7) -- your feedback is most helpful!
This is the limited shareware version -- almost the same as it will be when I release it in a few days (except with better-done installers.) So if you can find ANY way to get around that limitation and play more than you're supposed to be able to, please let me know! Likewise, if you run into bugs or have suggestions, let me know, but again -- I won't be changing gameplay at this point. Just show-stoppers stuff. Or very easy-to-fix things.
This has been in development over 2 years, which is too long for a game project, but at least it's finally about to see the light of day!
-Vern
#2
10/29/2009 (11:53 pm)
Awesome game, the graphics are really good too. I could only play the first few levels. Did you make that music I really need music for my game :(. And I really wish my RunTime error was solved. Oh and I almost forgot to tell you I found no errors though at the start the screen was black and it only said welcome Robert but that was my computer going slow, nice job again! You should put this on the Show-off thread.
#3
http://www.virtualproductions.net/
He is available for hire, but is not free. He is great to work with though; he goes for whatever style you're aiming for, and the stuff he comes up with is great.
10/30/2009 (1:22 am)
The music was composed by Michael Damon of Virtual Productions:http://www.virtualproductions.net/
He is available for hire, but is not free. He is great to work with though; he goes for whatever style you're aiming for, and the stuff he comes up with is great.
#4
10/30/2009 (1:23 am)
By the way, your computer screen being black at the start -- this was *before* it showed the ActionSoft logo animation and Insectoid splash screen, right? If so, that's just Torque being slow at start-up... nothing I can do about it apparently. :-( 
#5
I'd be interested to hear how your development process was and if you ran into any major difficulties and how you solved them. I'm sure others would also be interested and It would be a good blog entry at least.
10/30/2009 (7:20 pm)
Damn, you're making my game look bad. I love the way your UI looks and responds and the rest of the game is very beautiful. I didn't see any bugs in 5 minutes or so of play and I'm very impressed with your game overall.I'd be interested to hear how your development process was and if you ran into any major difficulties and how you solved them. I'm sure others would also be interested and It would be a good blog entry at least.
#6
10/30/2009 (8:06 pm)
Wow, pretty impressive game. Great Job man. What are you target platforms? It makes my game look amateur, though I've only been at it for about a month or two. Mind if I ask a little about the development? How big was the team? What kind of budget did you have to work with? How much will it cost? Also, how are you getting your game out to the public? Is it selling just through your website?
#7
10/30/2009 (8:17 pm)
@ Ven Jensen Ya it was just slow to start up its not youer fault, is was just slow. Ohh and If you can I would recommend making your game ind a window and have the option to go full cuse somthing might go wrong and you can't exit. But still nice work.
#8
A) To achieve the kind of enemy movement I wanted, I had to do custom movement routines, which fire at 100 fps. This would obviously be way too slow if done in script, so I had to rewrite key portions of the game in C++. It still has issues on lower-end machines though, when lots of enemies fire bullets at you at once, because even the bullet-firing script became more and more complex as the game went on. But I've not optimized this in C++ yet, as it'll be a fairly big job. (Not that the other wasn't.)
B) There were lots of bugs in Torque that I ran into and had to work around. Or limitations I had to work around. The start-up sequence, for instance, is done by splitting "datablocks.cs" into 5 different files, and load each manually, instead of having them auto-loaded by the engine. This means nothing shows up in the editor when I launch, since the editor attempts to load "datablocks.cs" so this was done near the end of development, but still makes editing a pain if I still have go to back and change something, and need a certain sprite loaded into the editor to do so.
C) My biggest mistake in doing this game was to create an "engine on top of an engine." TGB already *is* an engine, but I spend the first year and a half making a new "space game" engine on top of this, mostly in script. All levels for the game are created entirely in text files that the average joe could create (and I hired others to do this), so I kept adding feature after feature for my level designers, so they could do this, that, or the other thing. But in the end, this lead to feature creep, and a much longer development time than I had anticipated.
My other mistake was not making a visual level editor at the start. I thought this would take too much time, but in the end, it would've sped up development quite a bit, as I had to wait a long time for my level designers to finish their work. Making levels is not as easy as it should be.
I also tried to get Torque to do something it really wasn't designed to do. I will use Torque in the future if I make casual games, but for action-intensive games like Insectoid, I think other tools, where I program in a lower-level language, will be the way to go. Particularly if I want them to run on the iPhone.
-Vern
10/30/2009 (11:12 pm)
Nate -- the main problems I ran into during development were:A) To achieve the kind of enemy movement I wanted, I had to do custom movement routines, which fire at 100 fps. This would obviously be way too slow if done in script, so I had to rewrite key portions of the game in C++. It still has issues on lower-end machines though, when lots of enemies fire bullets at you at once, because even the bullet-firing script became more and more complex as the game went on. But I've not optimized this in C++ yet, as it'll be a fairly big job. (Not that the other wasn't.)
B) There were lots of bugs in Torque that I ran into and had to work around. Or limitations I had to work around. The start-up sequence, for instance, is done by splitting "datablocks.cs" into 5 different files, and load each manually, instead of having them auto-loaded by the engine. This means nothing shows up in the editor when I launch, since the editor attempts to load "datablocks.cs" so this was done near the end of development, but still makes editing a pain if I still have go to back and change something, and need a certain sprite loaded into the editor to do so.
C) My biggest mistake in doing this game was to create an "engine on top of an engine." TGB already *is* an engine, but I spend the first year and a half making a new "space game" engine on top of this, mostly in script. All levels for the game are created entirely in text files that the average joe could create (and I hired others to do this), so I kept adding feature after feature for my level designers, so they could do this, that, or the other thing. But in the end, this lead to feature creep, and a much longer development time than I had anticipated.
My other mistake was not making a visual level editor at the start. I thought this would take too much time, but in the end, it would've sped up development quite a bit, as I had to wait a long time for my level designers to finish their work. Making levels is not as easy as it should be.
I also tried to get Torque to do something it really wasn't designed to do. I will use Torque in the future if I make casual games, but for action-intensive games like Insectoid, I think other tools, where I program in a lower-level language, will be the way to go. Particularly if I want them to run on the iPhone.
-Vern
#9
Team size is in the credits -- click on the Help screen and go to the last page. Mainly me and an artist, from the Czech Republic that I found on these forums. :-) As you can see, he is quite good. Also hired a musician, and 3 level designers.
Budget was over $10,000. This included level design and artwork and music. My own time spent coding is not included in that figure. Obviously I have a lot I could lose if the game does not do well. I still have no idea how it will be received -- beta testers were pretty negative.
The game will cost $20, and will be sold directly from my website, www.actionsoft.com. I may look into Steam distribution, not sure yet. My first game sold fairly well simply by getting free press and by being on the various download sites, so I may just stick with that and try to build up a fan base, rather than go with a portal. Most portals are geared towards casual games anyway, hence why Steam is the only one that comes to mind that would be right for Insectoid.
10/30/2009 (11:17 pm)
john -- My target platforms are Mac and Windows. I had initially thought I could port to XBox too, but I've since learned this will require a total rewrite into C#. I doubt I'll be doing that, unless the game is successful enough to warrant a port.Team size is in the credits -- click on the Help screen and go to the last page. Mainly me and an artist, from the Czech Republic that I found on these forums. :-) As you can see, he is quite good. Also hired a musician, and 3 level designers.
Budget was over $10,000. This included level design and artwork and music. My own time spent coding is not included in that figure. Obviously I have a lot I could lose if the game does not do well. I still have no idea how it will be received -- beta testers were pretty negative.
The game will cost $20, and will be sold directly from my website, www.actionsoft.com. I may look into Steam distribution, not sure yet. My first game sold fairly well simply by getting free press and by being on the various download sites, so I may just stick with that and try to build up a fan base, rather than go with a portal. Most portals are geared towards casual games anyway, hence why Steam is the only one that comes to mind that would be right for Insectoid.
#10
Wow, I'd think launching has got to be scary, then. In general (if you care to share), what did the testers find objectionable?
Jay Jennings
PS - Just downloaded and tried the demo -- very cool! Takes me back to the "good old days" when I could spend hours and hours playing games! =:) Very nice job!
10/31/2009 (4:35 am)
"...beta testers were pretty negative."Wow, I'd think launching has got to be scary, then. In general (if you care to share), what did the testers find objectionable?
Jay Jennings
PS - Just downloaded and tried the demo -- very cool! Takes me back to the "good old days" when I could spend hours and hours playing games! =:) Very nice job!
#11
Not everyone was negative... there were two or three who were positive. But it's hard when you've worked on something for 2+ years and invested over 10k, to hear lots of negative feedback... it makes you wonder if the remaining 2-3 months of work are going to be wasted in a product that nobody will like.
It helps to remember too, though, that beta testers are *supposed* to find things that need improving. But yeah, I guess you usually hope for a *little* positive feedback.
I guess I'll find out what the general public thinks when I release Monday. Heh.
10/31/2009 (4:39 am)
Everything from "it's too much like Galaga" to "I hate the bonus rounds" (which I modified as a result of feedback -- everyone was in agreement on this) to "There are lots of great free shooters out there... why would I buy this?" [Granted, I did ask the question "Would you be inclined to buy this? Why or why not?" and you can't blame them for being honest.]Not everyone was negative... there were two or three who were positive. But it's hard when you've worked on something for 2+ years and invested over 10k, to hear lots of negative feedback... it makes you wonder if the remaining 2-3 months of work are going to be wasted in a product that nobody will like.
It helps to remember too, though, that beta testers are *supposed* to find things that need improving. But yeah, I guess you usually hope for a *little* positive feedback.
I guess I'll find out what the general public thinks when I release Monday. Heh.
#12
11/03/2009 (3:59 am)
Does anyone here have Windows 7? Curious if Insectoid runs on it. 
#13
I use Windows 7 Enterprise 64bit and the game runs well.
To answer tester questions (and this should be more a producer/game designer question) like "There are lots of great free shooters out there... why would I buy this?", you can answer with a question "Did you ever bought or will you ever buy a shooter game? If YES, why you would not choose Incetoid?"
There's TONS of free games ot there, Adventures, MMORPG, Arcades, Puzzles, but games sells anyway. I think the main issue is advertising.
01/09/2010 (7:19 am)
Hi Vern,I use Windows 7 Enterprise 64bit and the game runs well.
To answer tester questions (and this should be more a producer/game designer question) like "There are lots of great free shooters out there... why would I buy this?", you can answer with a question "Did you ever bought or will you ever buy a shooter game? If YES, why you would not choose Incetoid?"
There's TONS of free games ot there, Adventures, MMORPG, Arcades, Puzzles, but games sells anyway. I think the main issue is advertising.
#14
1) Having to press the fire key over and over to perform a "normal" shot is one of the reasons I quit playing early. The strain that started building up in my left hand after a couple of levels really killed any incentive to play.
2) The game feels quite polished graphically, visually, and aurally.
3) Some things are not explained that really should be. For example, when selecting my ship, I had no idea what a "power core" was or what it looked like. Meaning when I jumped into the game, I had to guess which glowy thing was a projectile or power-up.
4) What the hell is going on? It seems like there is an "infection" going on, but aside from that, I have no clue what is going on. To be fair, I am notoriously short tempered when it comes to stories in games, but I didn't see a single reason for why I should care to shoot down. . .whatever those insect things were.
5) No, I probably would not buy a shooter. Not when there are so many free options with more interesting design. Here's an example of what I mean:
IndieGames Top 10 Freeware Shooters
This is what you're competing against. The level of polish in terms of graphics, sound, UI, etc. is fungible between your games and theirs. But what really stands out is the design. I have not seen a game like yours for sale in very long time, and to be very honest, there is a reason why. While you have more content, it really doesn't matter if the mechanics aren't all that interesting.
I'm going to have to disagree with Giuseppe. "Build it and they will come" is a poor line in this day and age when it comes to indie sales. Take for example Jeff Vogel who has been an indie RPG developer since '94 (which makes him practically Methuselah in this industry). He doesn't get much press or advertising but he still sells his games . Why? Because like says, there aren't many games out there like his.
The only advantage we have as indies is our freedom to do whatever we want with design. It's not much of one, but it's the only one we really have.
6) From what tester feedback you've shared, it sounds like you should have been handing out builds to testers sooner. This article by Sid Meier on game design tips might be worth reading.
01/09/2010 (7:55 pm)
My impressions (Apologies for the harshness and maybe even the tone):1) Having to press the fire key over and over to perform a "normal" shot is one of the reasons I quit playing early. The strain that started building up in my left hand after a couple of levels really killed any incentive to play.
2) The game feels quite polished graphically, visually, and aurally.
3) Some things are not explained that really should be. For example, when selecting my ship, I had no idea what a "power core" was or what it looked like. Meaning when I jumped into the game, I had to guess which glowy thing was a projectile or power-up.
4) What the hell is going on? It seems like there is an "infection" going on, but aside from that, I have no clue what is going on. To be fair, I am notoriously short tempered when it comes to stories in games, but I didn't see a single reason for why I should care to shoot down. . .whatever those insect things were.
5) No, I probably would not buy a shooter. Not when there are so many free options with more interesting design. Here's an example of what I mean:
IndieGames Top 10 Freeware Shooters
This is what you're competing against. The level of polish in terms of graphics, sound, UI, etc. is fungible between your games and theirs. But what really stands out is the design. I have not seen a game like yours for sale in very long time, and to be very honest, there is a reason why. While you have more content, it really doesn't matter if the mechanics aren't all that interesting.
I'm going to have to disagree with Giuseppe. "Build it and they will come" is a poor line in this day and age when it comes to indie sales. Take for example Jeff Vogel who has been an indie RPG developer since '94 (which makes him practically Methuselah in this industry). He doesn't get much press or advertising but he still sells his games . Why? Because like says, there aren't many games out there like his.
The only advantage we have as indies is our freedom to do whatever we want with design. It's not much of one, but it's the only one we really have.
6) From what tester feedback you've shared, it sounds like you should have been handing out builds to testers sooner. This article by Sid Meier on game design tips might be worth reading.
#15
Not a lot to say on the gameplay apart from the fact that I really enjoyed playing it. I kinda liked the fact that I didn't know exactly what I should be collecting, part of the adventure. We're all learning creatures after all. :)
I agree with Eric though about having to press the fire key over and over again to keep firing. I'd prefer to hold the key down and stop doing that when I need to strategically fire.
Overall, a cool game and it's still on my desktop and I've played it several times this week. :)
01/13/2010 (5:45 am)
I'm running Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit and I experienced no problems.Not a lot to say on the gameplay apart from the fact that I really enjoyed playing it. I kinda liked the fact that I didn't know exactly what I should be collecting, part of the adventure. We're all learning creatures after all. :)
I agree with Eric though about having to press the fire key over and over again to keep firing. I'd prefer to hold the key down and stop doing that when I need to strategically fire.
Overall, a cool game and it's still on my desktop and I've played it several times this week. :)
Torque Owner Vern Jensen
www.actionsoft.com/games/insectoid/