Enhanced Collision DLL Pack now NOT on sale

#21 Akios comment really made me think:

Quote:Hmm, now that I've reread the quote, I guess I can't distribute the free stuff either, hehe. So much for that.

then I reread the licens:

Quote:(c) Licensee may not: (i) create any derivative works of the Engine, including translations or localizations, other than the Games; (ii) reverse engineer, or otherwise attempt to derive the algorithms for the Engine

Akio is right.
I'm no lawyer but that basically deems most resources illegal as I see it...

Any official comment ?

Just to clarify and as a possible flamewar prevention measure, I am not trying to bash the product here, merely asking a question regarding the above quote from the license and its impact on additions to the engine wich is based on code originally written by the licensors (GG).

[edit]correction regarding point of origin[edit]

#22

Quote:
(c) Licensee may not: (i) create any derivative works of the Engine, including translations or localizations, other than the Games; (ii) reverse engineer, or otherwise attempt to derive the algorithms for the Engine

translates to

Quote:
(c) Licensee can't: (i) do sh1t unless we say so; (ii) use the code because you licensee has the source, which means it's already reversed engineered. (iii) Battle us in court because we have a License Agreement that bans everything, we're just not bothered until you step on our toes.

:-P (I meant that in a good sense as a joke... not flaming GG)

#23 Burning, even tough meant as a joke I don't think your translation is a 100% accurate, we are still entitled to create games with the code.

I am under the impression that the license was written this way to avoid deritive work (including parts of original source code) being sold to non-licensees, which is obvious but leaves some room for misunderstanding.

As we stand today, every resource (deritive work) is moderated (and needs to be approved by the Licensor) before release. This could be reflected in the license to avoid situations like this one again.

#24 It's like saying...

Here's a pile of wood all cut into the right sizes to make a house...
You can cut some out there... and add some there and sell the house,
but you can't sell the wood for fire!

#25 I respect what GG is doing and they have the rights to protect their products. What I've purchased was a license to use their product, and as a licensee, I will follow the rules and restrictions as not to violate anything in the agreement.

#26 If you post the code as a resource on Garage Games, it is completely okay to do. There are already a few ODE physics integration resources on Garage Games. I have also posted resources that implemented engine enhancements.

Quote:
"...selling or distributing derivative engine enhancements isn't authorized even with a commercial license..."

In the case of posting your code as a resource, Garage Games is actually distributing your code. Resources are also moderated / authorized by Garage Games, before the general public may access them. You are not breaking the EULA in any way by posting a resource.

#27 Perhaps you could work to license it to them to implement into the engine? Still allowing the changes to occur and since the changes come from them it shouldn't be any EULA issues. Then everyone would benefit as it could be released in the next interim engine release.

Just a thought, I really appreciate the work you have done and have often referred people asking about collision and vehicle issues to do a search for your threads as they have been enlightening.

#28

Quote:In the case of posting your code as a resource, Garage Games is actually distributing your code.

Well, that sort of made sense .. good point there Ray.

#29 Hmm disappointing. I was really looking forward to this.

#30 Let me point out that as a commercial licensee and if you have TGE SDK license, I can be hired to write or modiy your code and create libraries for your game:)

#31 Just to clear the air here guys, what was meant in the quote above is that you can't make a derivative game-making product from Torque. For example, you can't wrap Torque in a binary and then sell your add on. That'd let anybody create a binary version of Torque, wrap it up, and start selling it as, say, MyGameMakerProduct. This isn't the only example of what isn't allowed by the EULAs, but it demonstrates the overall point.

I hope that thinking it through like that, you can see why it is necessary (and actually good) that the EULA has this kind of protection. Also of course please know that we always want to work with folks to create products that are based on the engine. Witness Melv and T2D, John Kabus and the Lighting Kit, Dave Wyand and TST Pro, and some others to come next year. :) We are obviously open to making exceptions when and where it makes sense to do so, after talking it through with the developer of a product.

To note as well for folks that are interested in Akio's enhanced collisions and in physics in general... we have some very cool projects going on here internally regarding physics, which we aren't quite ready to talk about in public yet. And we're also hoping to work with Akio to make his project available via appropriate means, and hopefully even integrate and work well with the internal collision and physics projects we have going on here.

#32 Thanks for your comments Josh. We have discussed some of your plans in our emails, but I didn't think is was my place to repeat them publicly.

#33 Thanks Akio. :) All, we will be talking about this stuff more after the new year, once we get finished with some of our existing dev work!

#34 I am glad to hear that it isn't a complete shut out and that GG is working with him, I feel the physics and audio are long overdue for a re-vamp due to some of thier issues. Overall though you can't complain for what you get for a license.

Akio I am working for a game project that is commercial (with commercial licensing) and after the holidays when we really gear up will be contacting you to see where this is going.

#35 @Akio

What are your rates for hire??? :-)

#36 yay I'm glad that GG's is working with Akio and plan on doing stuff internally with physics "enhancements". I'm currently busy with my "real" job but was prototyping a game that has some physics needs. I may be able to just use RigidShape. I'm prototyping with it.

#37 Damn,
I had a little money left from xmas and was coming to pick that up.
That's what I get for waiting.
Guess I got Grinched.

Ari

#38 Just so everyone knows, I had no intentions of violating any agreement stated in the EULA. I was under the impression that permission to release this particular enhancement code was already granted, as stated in www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=28247 by J.Williams.

Quote:
As for Akio's work in particular, it seems really solid to me from what I can see so far. We'd be glad to work with him on an ODE or physics SDK project, but that doesn't mean we want to stifle other projects, or that we want to try to impede Akio's progress or release on his own.

#39 you could perhaps get GG's permission to sell it in a content pack couldn't you or release it as a resource?

#40 Bump! Just curious about the status of this. Any news?