Plan for L Foster
by Logan Foster · 12/11/2005 (9:28 pm) · 13 comments
Today the IGF announced their "finalists" for this years competition, although Dark Horizons Lore Invasion will not be a repeat finalist I do want to take a few moments to congratulate two Torque based finalists that are also developed by a pair of great teams.
Tube Twist (Technical Excellence Finalist) by 21-6 Productions: A wildly wonderful 3D puzzle game of mind numbing addiction.
Venture Tycoon : Africa (Shamus McNally Grand Prize Finalist) by Andy Schantz: Probably one of the cooler Sims I have seen in years that doesn't bog you down with bullshit stats and features. Just raw sim game play :)
Awesome work guys and a cudos to the many Torque based games that entered into this competition and unfortunately did not make "finals". Everyone did an incredible job at showing what this community is capable of producing.
With that said now have a few things that I feel that I want to get off my chest about the IGFs competition for this year and why I think its crock of shit formatting needs to be throw out the door if the whole IGF competition wants to not look like some sort of hypocritical competition of commercialism.
1) Funding
The issue of funding and technicly what is and is not an "indie" is a hot issue that the IGF has tried balance itself on and has also always failed miserably. For example, you cannot submit a game that was funded by a publisher, but you can submit a game that was funded through vulture capital or other means such as funneling money from your porn site to fund your game.
On top of this there also seems to be little to no effort put in by the judges to properly compare what a low budget game such as HackIT or Virus Blaster has done in comparison to a big budget game like Dofus. As such you can be guarenteed 99 times out of 100 that the bigger budget that you have, the greater chance of success that you have of making finalists or even winning at all. Its just a sad truth of the IGF.
2) Games are Nominated for Awards!?
This year the IGF has made a departure where they have choosen and nominated a set number of games for certain awards, which I think is the dumbest thing they could have ever done. Why? Well its simple, you are basing which games go for which prizes on a submission from back in October instead of basing it on what the developers can bring come March. Thats six fucking months of development that they have bitch slapped out the door and said to every finalist "we don't fucking care if the game you bring in March dominates every category, we pigeon holed you already". Seriously IGF, this is one of the stupidest things that you have done. As such I sincerely hope that you fix this next year.
3) Innovation? What Innovation?
This years IGF we have two categories for Innovation: Art and Audio, and my though on this is "What the fuck!" Shouldn't innovation be based on game play and how it is presented? Isn't audio and art a key and integral part not only of one another but of the entire game experiance itself?
I have a better idea for IGF, just call these two categories "Best Bling in a Game that matches AAA game standards (ie. shaders)" and "Coolest game soundtrack" because this is honestly what they will be judged on.
4) Mod Competition
I vented about this before and I take some time to vent about it again...
A) Why the hell is there a competition for Mods in the first place? I don't see how a Mod requires anywhere near the dedication and hard work that it takes to actually create a whole game from scratch. I'm sorry but that's just how I feel.
B) Why is the mod competition limited only to select games? Isn't the whole idea of the IGF supposed to be to show case the best entries possible and as such isn't limiting Mods to a few select games essentially culling out a whole swack of other great Mods on the market? Sorry but this just reeks of bullshit and is so unfair that the Mod category should have been scrapped and he/she who submitted the idea should be bitch slapped around with a trout.
5) Joining the Open and Web Categories
In previous years there was an "Web" category (for games under 10mb and thus were downloaded and played from a web site) and "Open" (anything bigger than 10mb). This year, there is just the "Main Competition" and thus a great way for a lot of great products to get lost amongst the crowd.
The End Result: Why IGC Rules over IGF!
I hope that I do not sound too bitter after getting these items off of my chest, and I am very thankful that Lore was nominated as a finalist last year (and completely understand that it was beaten out by newer and better products this year), but I really have to wonder what the hell all the hype is about IGF? While the IGF should be about celebrating indie gaming and showing the big dogs that we too have a bark and a bite, it really is IMHO all about pandering to commercialism and all the things that make the AAA games market despised for its lack of innovation and creativity.
This is why I feel that Indie Games Con (IGC) is a better, if not the best, venue for Indie games on the face of the planet today. At IGC no one cares about commercialism or how much funding you had, all that matters is how enjoyable the game that you have brought is and your peers at the event rate it based on what it provides, not on how much bling that you have to offer because you could afford to muscle your way to the top.
IGC is the show case for real innovation in this industry and it will continue to be this way as long as the IGF continues down its path as it does. As such GarageGames should be given a pat on the back for the great effort that they have done to keep IGC a real bastion of "Indie Development" here in the world as it truely is one of the last places that we will honestly see it.
Tube Twist (Technical Excellence Finalist) by 21-6 Productions: A wildly wonderful 3D puzzle game of mind numbing addiction.
Venture Tycoon : Africa (Shamus McNally Grand Prize Finalist) by Andy Schantz: Probably one of the cooler Sims I have seen in years that doesn't bog you down with bullshit stats and features. Just raw sim game play :)
Awesome work guys and a cudos to the many Torque based games that entered into this competition and unfortunately did not make "finals". Everyone did an incredible job at showing what this community is capable of producing.
With that said now have a few things that I feel that I want to get off my chest about the IGFs competition for this year and why I think its crock of shit formatting needs to be throw out the door if the whole IGF competition wants to not look like some sort of hypocritical competition of commercialism.
1) Funding
The issue of funding and technicly what is and is not an "indie" is a hot issue that the IGF has tried balance itself on and has also always failed miserably. For example, you cannot submit a game that was funded by a publisher, but you can submit a game that was funded through vulture capital or other means such as funneling money from your porn site to fund your game.
On top of this there also seems to be little to no effort put in by the judges to properly compare what a low budget game such as HackIT or Virus Blaster has done in comparison to a big budget game like Dofus. As such you can be guarenteed 99 times out of 100 that the bigger budget that you have, the greater chance of success that you have of making finalists or even winning at all. Its just a sad truth of the IGF.
2) Games are Nominated for Awards!?
This year the IGF has made a departure where they have choosen and nominated a set number of games for certain awards, which I think is the dumbest thing they could have ever done. Why? Well its simple, you are basing which games go for which prizes on a submission from back in October instead of basing it on what the developers can bring come March. Thats six fucking months of development that they have bitch slapped out the door and said to every finalist "we don't fucking care if the game you bring in March dominates every category, we pigeon holed you already". Seriously IGF, this is one of the stupidest things that you have done. As such I sincerely hope that you fix this next year.
3) Innovation? What Innovation?
This years IGF we have two categories for Innovation: Art and Audio, and my though on this is "What the fuck!" Shouldn't innovation be based on game play and how it is presented? Isn't audio and art a key and integral part not only of one another but of the entire game experiance itself?
I have a better idea for IGF, just call these two categories "Best Bling in a Game that matches AAA game standards (ie. shaders)" and "Coolest game soundtrack" because this is honestly what they will be judged on.
4) Mod Competition
I vented about this before and I take some time to vent about it again...
A) Why the hell is there a competition for Mods in the first place? I don't see how a Mod requires anywhere near the dedication and hard work that it takes to actually create a whole game from scratch. I'm sorry but that's just how I feel.
B) Why is the mod competition limited only to select games? Isn't the whole idea of the IGF supposed to be to show case the best entries possible and as such isn't limiting Mods to a few select games essentially culling out a whole swack of other great Mods on the market? Sorry but this just reeks of bullshit and is so unfair that the Mod category should have been scrapped and he/she who submitted the idea should be bitch slapped around with a trout.
5) Joining the Open and Web Categories
In previous years there was an "Web" category (for games under 10mb and thus were downloaded and played from a web site) and "Open" (anything bigger than 10mb). This year, there is just the "Main Competition" and thus a great way for a lot of great products to get lost amongst the crowd.
The End Result: Why IGC Rules over IGF!
I hope that I do not sound too bitter after getting these items off of my chest, and I am very thankful that Lore was nominated as a finalist last year (and completely understand that it was beaten out by newer and better products this year), but I really have to wonder what the hell all the hype is about IGF? While the IGF should be about celebrating indie gaming and showing the big dogs that we too have a bark and a bite, it really is IMHO all about pandering to commercialism and all the things that make the AAA games market despised for its lack of innovation and creativity.
This is why I feel that Indie Games Con (IGC) is a better, if not the best, venue for Indie games on the face of the planet today. At IGC no one cares about commercialism or how much funding you had, all that matters is how enjoyable the game that you have brought is and your peers at the event rate it based on what it provides, not on how much bling that you have to offer because you could afford to muscle your way to the top.
IGC is the show case for real innovation in this industry and it will continue to be this way as long as the IGF continues down its path as it does. As such GarageGames should be given a pat on the back for the great effort that they have done to keep IGC a real bastion of "Indie Development" here in the world as it truely is one of the last places that we will honestly see it.
About the author
#2
I can understand the way you feel about the competition ... but I guess nothing in life is fair. You take your best shot and hope for success.
12/12/2005 (1:15 am)
If people were paid to make the game ... then it shouldn't be considered for IGF. I'm not sure if Dofus' 25 team members were paid to make the game but if so then it should be ruled out. Seems like the game should be created on each team member's buck. That's the way we create our games and that's what seems truly independent of any 'publisher'. The game is created under each team members' own power outside of the typical industry influence.I can understand the way you feel about the competition ... but I guess nothing in life is fair. You take your best shot and hope for success.
#3
And even venture capitalists dont make them non-indie, as long as they are having full creational freedom.
I do feel though, that IGF should introduce "budget categories" with lower budgets receiving some kind of bragging rights and...i dunno .. "In true indie spirit" badge or something.
Budget differences within tens of thousands might not be so visible for the end-user, but budget differences between thousands and millions are surely to be seen as long as the money is not being spent by professional league squanderers.
So, from games competing from the ultimate opposites of this scale, big budgets clearly have an edge here. However, I still feel they are indies. They are just different indies and should be treated as such.
12/12/2005 (3:03 am)
I can understand those concerns, but frankly, I dont see it that way. If someone outsources art or part of code or music, or whatever, and pays for it, bleeding pints through nose, it doesnt automagically make them "non-indie". Lots of indies do that, it`s not a sin, its normal.And even venture capitalists dont make them non-indie, as long as they are having full creational freedom.
I do feel though, that IGF should introduce "budget categories" with lower budgets receiving some kind of bragging rights and...i dunno .. "In true indie spirit" badge or something.
Budget differences within tens of thousands might not be so visible for the end-user, but budget differences between thousands and millions are surely to be seen as long as the money is not being spent by professional league squanderers.
So, from games competing from the ultimate opposites of this scale, big budgets clearly have an edge here. However, I still feel they are indies. They are just different indies and should be treated as such.
#4
Just take a trip to the bar and drown it away (like everyone else who didn't make it)
12/12/2005 (4:03 am)
I'm willing to bet if your game was a finalist you wouldn't have wrote this .plan the way you did.Just take a trip to the bar and drown it away (like everyone else who didn't make it)
#5
12/12/2005 (6:09 am)
Yea, I was looking through the entries and Sonalyst's Dangerous Waters was on the list. They were recently published online at Battlefront.com and now are published retail. According to IGF they had a $2million budget, I think thats a bit above what would be considered independent, even many publisher supported PC games probably don't go that high. They weren't supported by any publisher though however, so as Logan states, sort of a loophole in the system over there.
#6
We had art and sound innovation categories last year also. The damned cow game won sound last year with that damned song they had playing 90% of the time. (The Lore booth was beside it, and the song gets annoying after a few yours... good song though)
As far as budget concerns go, if I was some successful lawyer/doctor with craploads of money, and decided I wanted to make games for a living, and had money to pay for artists, sound guys, coders, it would STILL be an indiependent game, I just happened to also bring money to the table. (Or won the lottery, or saved up for 20 years, or inherited money that let me take a break from a real job and become an indie game developer fulltime...)
12/12/2005 (6:18 am)
Being nominated into particular categories is no different then any other award 'show' out there. And last year, the finalist deadline was january not march. Your build in January (7th or so last year) was really the one that counted and got judged for awards. So they cut out 2-3 months of dev time, which is nothing at all. What happened before is like giving nominations to movies, and then judging them based on the DVD releases with all the goodies. (or even early screeners, then judging on the final cut)We had art and sound innovation categories last year also. The damned cow game won sound last year with that damned song they had playing 90% of the time. (The Lore booth was beside it, and the song gets annoying after a few yours... good song though)
As far as budget concerns go, if I was some successful lawyer/doctor with craploads of money, and decided I wanted to make games for a living, and had money to pay for artists, sound guys, coders, it would STILL be an indiependent game, I just happened to also bring money to the table. (Or won the lottery, or saved up for 20 years, or inherited money that let me take a break from a real job and become an indie game developer fulltime...)
#7
I'm willing to bet he would, since Logan has mentioned a lot of these same points throughout the year on irc way before nominations could be brought into the equation.
A lot of the points I agree with, however I imagine the solutions will be much harder to come by. For example if you split games into seperate categories based on budgets (abitary figure time) say under 5k under 100k and over 100k. How would you enforce this? What category would a game made by 4 ex professionals that have nice savings to live off whilst developing the game full time go into? At first glance it would be the sub 5k category. Yet a solo developer who then used his savings to contract out the artwork and sound might end up using less of his savings overall compared to the 4 developers, but end up in the < 100k category.
I do think there should be some kind of break though, for example games that have a million doller budget should be split off. The question is, where should the line be drawn?
12/12/2005 (7:14 am)
Quote:
I'm willing to bet if your game was a finalist you wouldn't have wrote this .plan the way you did.
I'm willing to bet he would, since Logan has mentioned a lot of these same points throughout the year on irc way before nominations could be brought into the equation.
A lot of the points I agree with, however I imagine the solutions will be much harder to come by. For example if you split games into seperate categories based on budgets (abitary figure time) say under 5k under 100k and over 100k. How would you enforce this? What category would a game made by 4 ex professionals that have nice savings to live off whilst developing the game full time go into? At first glance it would be the sub 5k category. Yet a solo developer who then used his savings to contract out the artwork and sound might end up using less of his savings overall compared to the 4 developers, but end up in the < 100k category.
I do think there should be some kind of break though, for example games that have a million doller budget should be split off. The question is, where should the line be drawn?
#8
-Ajari-
12/12/2005 (7:24 am)
With the way the rules seem to be at IGF, I bet Insomniac games would be allowed to submit their latest Ratchet and Clank game or their upcomming PS3 game and compete no different than anybody else. They consider themselves to be indie. Of course they aren't like any of us, but the title still stands. And that would be very unfair, but not too much different from what's going on now with games like Alien Homonid and this Dofus I keep hearing about. There should be a $10,000 and up category and the "main attraction" that wins cash prizes should be the "real" indie games ($0-$10,000). It shouldn't matter where the code, music, and art came from, or if it was paid for or not. What should matter is the overall budget of the game. But I imagine it's hard to determine where to begin recording your costs. Do you include the tools used to make the game or just the labor? I haven't read the IGF rules so I wouldn't know.-Ajari-
#9
Sorry about the mistake on the name. I shall repeat it three times Wildlife Tycoon : Venture Africa, Wildlife Tycoon : Venture Africa, Wildlife Tycoon : Venture Africa :)
Instead of having an "Innovation" category I would love to see a category that deals more with the overall presentation of the game and how enjoyable/fun the product is.
In regards to Alien Hominid, they were IMHO a "fuzzy" entry last year in that when they entered they were an indie but by the time the finals came around they had publishing setup in a few regions on a few consoles. They were also entered as a finalist in both the IGF and main Games Industry award show (whose name elludes me at the moment). As such I personally didn't feel that they should have qualified for the IGF especially when there were too many issues that potentially could conflict with the IGF rules. Now I am not detracting the awesome work that the Behemoth did to make this game, its phenominal and very awesome, I am just stating that IMHO they managed to strut the line in regards to what was and wasn't IGF indie.
As an interesting side note, notice how on the IGF site they talk about Hominid as the big 2005 game and yet GISH won most of the more important awards and would be a much better game to hilite and showcase as a tooth and nail indie example?
@Jeremy
I don't think anyone has an issue with people being paid to make a game that is entered into the IGF, but with how the money was earned to pay for those people. As I stated publisher funding isn't allowed, but you can be funded by vulture cap or by funneling money from another company that you own (such as a Porn site for example).
To me this is a sticky issue and kinda counter spirit of the IGF. Sure you get a few gems like GISH that are entirely self funded and kick a lot of ass, but as long as you let the issue of any sort of funding that isn't directly out of the developers pocket slide I think that the IGF is going to run into the issue that they are no celebrating the true indie as much as they are supporting alternative funding methods towards making a game.
@Gary & Ajari
Indeed that is the literal "Million Dollar Question" :) I would guess that like Ajari said, putting the division at $10,000 for any cost that you have made to make the game (ie. paying employees, buying hardware/software, server costs, etc.) would be a good way to split the two categories.
12/12/2005 (9:16 am)
@Andy,Sorry about the mistake on the name. I shall repeat it three times Wildlife Tycoon : Venture Africa, Wildlife Tycoon : Venture Africa, Wildlife Tycoon : Venture Africa :)
Instead of having an "Innovation" category I would love to see a category that deals more with the overall presentation of the game and how enjoyable/fun the product is.
In regards to Alien Hominid, they were IMHO a "fuzzy" entry last year in that when they entered they were an indie but by the time the finals came around they had publishing setup in a few regions on a few consoles. They were also entered as a finalist in both the IGF and main Games Industry award show (whose name elludes me at the moment). As such I personally didn't feel that they should have qualified for the IGF especially when there were too many issues that potentially could conflict with the IGF rules. Now I am not detracting the awesome work that the Behemoth did to make this game, its phenominal and very awesome, I am just stating that IMHO they managed to strut the line in regards to what was and wasn't IGF indie.
As an interesting side note, notice how on the IGF site they talk about Hominid as the big 2005 game and yet GISH won most of the more important awards and would be a much better game to hilite and showcase as a tooth and nail indie example?
@Jeremy
I don't think anyone has an issue with people being paid to make a game that is entered into the IGF, but with how the money was earned to pay for those people. As I stated publisher funding isn't allowed, but you can be funded by vulture cap or by funneling money from another company that you own (such as a Porn site for example).
To me this is a sticky issue and kinda counter spirit of the IGF. Sure you get a few gems like GISH that are entirely self funded and kick a lot of ass, but as long as you let the issue of any sort of funding that isn't directly out of the developers pocket slide I think that the IGF is going to run into the issue that they are no celebrating the true indie as much as they are supporting alternative funding methods towards making a game.
@Gary & Ajari
Indeed that is the literal "Million Dollar Question" :) I would guess that like Ajari said, putting the division at $10,000 for any cost that you have made to make the game (ie. paying employees, buying hardware/software, server costs, etc.) would be a good way to split the two categories.
#10
At what pay scale do you rate your OWN time. Alien Hominid had this insanely high budget number last year. But the thing is, they didn't actually spend that. It was the budget calculated based on I assume what they used to get paid, and the time spent on it. Lore's budget number was what I assume Max Gaming had actually spent on it (5k was the number given last year).
If you included 2 years of fulltime pay for 10 staff, at 70k a year (apparently the starting avg salary in california for programmers), your at 1.4 million budget for Lore. Theres other considerations, not having 10 full employees the whole time, periods of no work due to home life/real jobs, etc. But still, a huge budget number anyways.
If you just go by what it cost you to live and work over that time frame, well, I've been living of 10k a year. So thats 20k for me for the 2 years, huge difference from the 140k it'd be going on a fictional salary.
Anyways, I would consider id Software indie, the only people who have a hand in id Software, is id software. Full creative control is what makes you an indie, not your budget.
12/12/2005 (9:35 am)
Other question for cost is this.At what pay scale do you rate your OWN time. Alien Hominid had this insanely high budget number last year. But the thing is, they didn't actually spend that. It was the budget calculated based on I assume what they used to get paid, and the time spent on it. Lore's budget number was what I assume Max Gaming had actually spent on it (5k was the number given last year).
If you included 2 years of fulltime pay for 10 staff, at 70k a year (apparently the starting avg salary in california for programmers), your at 1.4 million budget for Lore. Theres other considerations, not having 10 full employees the whole time, periods of no work due to home life/real jobs, etc. But still, a huge budget number anyways.
If you just go by what it cost you to live and work over that time frame, well, I've been living of 10k a year. So thats 20k for me for the 2 years, huge difference from the 140k it'd be going on a fictional salary.
Anyways, I would consider id Software indie, the only people who have a hand in id Software, is id software. Full creative control is what makes you an indie, not your budget.
#11
The BIG loophole was that the only limiter for who could enter was an honor system pledge that entrants had to take after completing their entry. The pledge basically said "I am entering this game in the indie spirit" and that was pretty much it.
Honestly, they are working on this issue every year. I suspect they will continue to improve upon it.
12/12/2005 (9:40 am)
The budget was better explained this year: it included operating costs and REAL salaries, but not imaginary salaries that would have been paid if the team members were doing other things.The BIG loophole was that the only limiter for who could enter was an honor system pledge that entrants had to take after completing their entry. The pledge basically said "I am entering this game in the indie spirit" and that was pretty much it.
Honestly, they are working on this issue every year. I suspect they will continue to improve upon it.
#12
12/12/2005 (11:23 am)
I think something else to consider is who the IGF promoting for. If it's other developer then budget actually has some meaning and they should create catagories. If they are simply trying to get any independently made game more publicity then I think budget is less of a factor. Average game player doesn't care if the game was made with $5 or $2 million they just want a cool game. If they IGF promotes games like Alien Homonide, which gets more publicity because it was published then the IGF in turn will receive more publicity. Which will help games like Gish get more publicity themselves. Is it fair that they compare games with such drastically different budgets? Not really. But if you seperate the catagories where do you think the publicity will go first? Obviously the high budget because people will assume the games are better. It's a double edge sword. Gish did beat Alien Homonide so just because you have the bigger budget doesn't mean you win.
#13
12/12/2005 (12:08 pm)
Good points. 
Torque 3D Owner Andy Schatz
I agree with you SOMEWHAT about the art and audio categories. But I do think some attention is paid to innovation, when it's available. I'd put big money on Darwinia winning Innovation in Visual Art this year because, whether you like the look of the game or not, it IS innovative. As for audio, just not that many games are innovative with it. Seems like a useless category in a lot of ways. But don't forget about Innovation in Game Design, which is the real kicker. Last year Gish won two categories, beating out the much higher budget Alien Hominid: Game Design and Grand Prize. To be honest, I'm not sure why Alien Hominid won the Tech Excellence award last year. What was technically excellent about it?
Regarding funding, yeah I agree -- I think there really should be a funding cap on the festival, like Slamdance has. I did notice, however, that they aren't listing the budgets for each game anymore, probably due to complaints about budget sizes. I would bet that something is done about this as it seems that this year several games entered that clearly weren't indie, at least budget-wise. Dofus was even nominated for the grand prize, and it had a huge budget.
Of course, on the other hand, I'm excited and flattered to have my game nominated ;) As I'm sure you were last year.