Plan for MrPhil (Philip Ludington)
by MrPhil (Philip Ludington) · 10/19/2005 (9:13 pm) · 20 comments
Things I learned at Torque Boot Camp Day 3 (sorry it took me so long)
-- Variable name prefixes:
--- m - member variable
--- s - static member
--- g - global variable
-- BitRock is the/an installer GarageGames uses and comes highly recommended
-- Manits comes recommended over bugzilla
-- Forums make a good communication tool because it has history and persistence
-- Make a Vision Statement for your games that is 2 or 3 pages because no one is going to read a 100 page Design Document. You also need flexibility to create a game that is fun to play, not one that meets the design document.
-- Face to face communication is critical, put a mechanism in that gets your team together
-- Dynamic Risk Assessment helps you determine what to focus your time and energy on. You should deal with the risky parts soon, because they are the things that could kill the project and you want to address those problems as fast/soon as possible
-- Any process or method you use to manage your projects has to be flexible
-- Commercial game makers have to work ungodly hours because they are trying to shoehorn in the stuff the game needs to be fun into the schedule. The schedule was created to get the feature list handed down from marketing and management implemented.
-- ThinkTanks design doc was only 8 pages in the beginning
--- It only got bigger to meet the needs of the team
--- It stopped being updated once the game itself was the best reference
--- had a Vision for Game Play
--- had a Vision of the Target Audience
-- I was so focused on what Joe Marushak was saying... that... uh... okay I was a wus and didn't ask him what he meant by the term "Shell flow." I think it is a way of referring an event driven program's control flow?
-- Consider a schedule using an "effort unit" or "work unit" and then adjust a unit's time value as actual tasks time of completion are discovered.
-- SCRUM
-- It takes a longtime to build a good working relationship with a contractor
-- Think what you target audience wants and then shoot lower, you are going to over estimate things
-- 2% of users need support
-- if you spend more than 30 minutes fixing a users problem you are losing money
-- Good contractors are hard to find so don't drive them away trying to low ball them
-- What does a freelance artist need from you?
--- Scope of work
--- Defined beginning and end
--- Chunk it up, defined list of tasks
--- Include at least one revision or adjustment step/round
--- Cost $35-80 a hour
--- Around $3000 for a model
--- Around $800 for a texture
--- Concept art is $100-500 a drawing
--- You need Social Security Numbers or Tax Identification numbers from your contractors for proper records
-- Consulting/contracting isn't a starting point for individuals trying to break into the industry
--- study the engine's parts, play with change its behavior
--- turn out a few small game you can make fast, because the hardest part about making games is finishing
--- create resources and/or fix bugs for the community, if you do good quality work someone will probably notice and approach you with work
-- Connection Sequence Overview a step by step break down of what happens between the server and the client when networking
-- clientCmdMissionStart() is where you would add code specific to your project
-- There is a SimGroup called MissionCleanup and by adding objects to the group when you are done with them. It is a way to guarantee they get deleted at the end of a mission
-- TorqueScript doesn't have true array, the array looking syntax resolves to basic string manipulation
-- T2D has Continuous Time Collision which means that collisions are swept through time, meaning it checks to ensure collisions a properly created when the speed of the objects makes it possible for the collision to occur between frames.
Game on,
MrPhil, Owner
Mr. Phil Games
Previous Plan Next Plan
Mirrored
-- Variable name prefixes:
--- m - member variable
--- s - static member
--- g - global variable
-- BitRock is the/an installer GarageGames uses and comes highly recommended
-- Manits comes recommended over bugzilla
-- Forums make a good communication tool because it has history and persistence
-- Make a Vision Statement for your games that is 2 or 3 pages because no one is going to read a 100 page Design Document. You also need flexibility to create a game that is fun to play, not one that meets the design document.
-- Face to face communication is critical, put a mechanism in that gets your team together
-- Dynamic Risk Assessment helps you determine what to focus your time and energy on. You should deal with the risky parts soon, because they are the things that could kill the project and you want to address those problems as fast/soon as possible
-- Any process or method you use to manage your projects has to be flexible
-- Commercial game makers have to work ungodly hours because they are trying to shoehorn in the stuff the game needs to be fun into the schedule. The schedule was created to get the feature list handed down from marketing and management implemented.
-- ThinkTanks design doc was only 8 pages in the beginning
--- It only got bigger to meet the needs of the team
--- It stopped being updated once the game itself was the best reference
--- had a Vision for Game Play
--- had a Vision of the Target Audience
-- I was so focused on what Joe Marushak was saying... that... uh... okay I was a wus and didn't ask him what he meant by the term "Shell flow." I think it is a way of referring an event driven program's control flow?
-- Consider a schedule using an "effort unit" or "work unit" and then adjust a unit's time value as actual tasks time of completion are discovered.
-- SCRUM
-- It takes a longtime to build a good working relationship with a contractor
-- Think what you target audience wants and then shoot lower, you are going to over estimate things
-- 2% of users need support
-- if you spend more than 30 minutes fixing a users problem you are losing money
-- Good contractors are hard to find so don't drive them away trying to low ball them
-- What does a freelance artist need from you?
--- Scope of work
--- Defined beginning and end
--- Chunk it up, defined list of tasks
--- Include at least one revision or adjustment step/round
--- Cost $35-80 a hour
--- Around $3000 for a model
--- Around $800 for a texture
--- Concept art is $100-500 a drawing
--- You need Social Security Numbers or Tax Identification numbers from your contractors for proper records
-- Consulting/contracting isn't a starting point for individuals trying to break into the industry
--- study the engine's parts, play with change its behavior
--- turn out a few small game you can make fast, because the hardest part about making games is finishing
--- create resources and/or fix bugs for the community, if you do good quality work someone will probably notice and approach you with work
-- Connection Sequence Overview a step by step break down of what happens between the server and the client when networking
-- clientCmdMissionStart() is where you would add code specific to your project
-- There is a SimGroup called MissionCleanup and by adding objects to the group when you are done with them. It is a way to guarantee they get deleted at the end of a mission
-- TorqueScript doesn't have true array, the array looking syntax resolves to basic string manipulation
-- T2D has Continuous Time Collision which means that collisions are swept through time, meaning it checks to ensure collisions a properly created when the speed of the objects makes it possible for the collision to occur between frames.
Game on,
MrPhil, Owner
Mr. Phil Games
Previous Plan Next Plan
Mirrored
About the author
My name is Philip Ludington, I'm a professional programmer by day and I dabble in game development by night. Learn more about my projects at www.MrPhilGames.com
#2
Like I always say, "Pick anything and pick a price and someone will buy it."
The thing to remember is that a $80 an hour artist might kick out what you need in an hour and be better quality than the artist who charges $10 a hour and takes four days. Which was a better deal ;)
10/19/2005 (10:02 pm)
Quote:Good contractors are hard to find so don't drive them away trying to low ball them
Like I always say, "Pick anything and pick a price and someone will buy it."
The thing to remember is that a $80 an hour artist might kick out what you need in an hour and be better quality than the artist who charges $10 a hour and takes four days. Which was a better deal ;)
#3
--- Around $3000 for a model
--- Around $800 for a texture
--- Concept art is $100-500 a drawing
You're paying way too much then!
10/19/2005 (11:00 pm)
-- Cost $35-80 a hour--- Around $3000 for a model
--- Around $800 for a texture
--- Concept art is $100-500 a drawing
You're paying way too much then!
#4
I do think $3000/model is too much, but that also depends on what the model is. If it's both a high poly/high detail (normal map) and low poly version, UV'ed, of a medium to high detailed object or character (of say a character, vehicle, whatever), then it may be worth that much. But for games that cater to the casual PC, it's not necessary. A single mesh (4K-5K tris) with UVs would be worth $200 at the very most, imo. Though I would like to know just who is paying $3000 for their art ;)
I don't know what you would pay to be kicked out within an hour, but not even a $80/hour artist can get a whole lot done in only one hour, unless he's got freedom to choose what to make and how to make it.
10/19/2005 (11:23 pm)
I would rather go with the per model payment plan, if doing work remotely. Anything time-based is too iffy.I do think $3000/model is too much, but that also depends on what the model is. If it's both a high poly/high detail (normal map) and low poly version, UV'ed, of a medium to high detailed object or character (of say a character, vehicle, whatever), then it may be worth that much. But for games that cater to the casual PC, it's not necessary. A single mesh (4K-5K tris) with UVs would be worth $200 at the very most, imo. Though I would like to know just who is paying $3000 for their art ;)
I don't know what you would pay to be kicked out within an hour, but not even a $80/hour artist can get a whole lot done in only one hour, unless he's got freedom to choose what to make and how to make it.
#5
Phil's comments were a quick and dirty representation of a 1.5-ish hour mini-seminar on the relationship between a (professional quality) content provider (artist primarily since that's what we had at the discussion--a successful Freelance artist with a title published on multiple platforms, but the principle applies to code contracting as well), and a professional project manager-with multiple titles published on multiple platforms: Joe Marushak in the discussion).
First, a couple of observations:
1) There is a big difference between a skilled but inexperienced artist, and a skilled and highly experienced artist. You pay for that experience, mostly because that experience is going to save you a ton of money in the long run.
2) It's always possible to find either:
--a starving artist that will work for peanuts (both figuratively and literally--they need to eat, and everyone that is a freelance/independent contractor runs into bad times)
--a non-starving artist that has positioned themselves (either through geographical location, or a combination of alternate income and interest in your project) that will work for substantially less than the quotes above.
3) Ultimately, you get what you pay for.
Our guest "freelance artist" (I don't want to state his name without permission, but he is a VERY experienced and long time member of the Torque community) brought up at least 6 reasons why an experienced, professional freelance artist is going to be looking for the rates mentioned--I only remember a couple:
A) They've been there, done that, and have the T-shirt already: they are going to tell the person paying the bills when the money is not being spent wisely: a professional freelancer is extremely jealous of their professional reputation, and isn't going to be willing to accept money for a project that is misguided, unaware of the risks involved, or otherwise "out to lunch". In other words: you aren't just paying for art, you are paying for general game development experience, and it's worth it. One of the examples brought up in the Boot Camp seminar was an "opportunity" where the person looking for consultants had in excess of $60,000 to spend, and was willing to accept spending that money in less than a month--but when the experienced art/creative lead (again, Joe M. in this case) was professional enough to explain that a month from now, they would have to do it all over again because the art requested simply would not meet the project requirements, the contract deliverables and expectations were re-negotiated--in the long run, to the benefit of the people spending the money.
B) As Phil mentioned in his post, the quality of work provided by an experienced professional is well worth the price--it's his (the artist's) job to present art assets that will work for you for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that he has to pay the bills, and therefore is going to give you what you ask in an extremely timely manner.
C) As Phil also mentioned in his response, there is an extremely important difference between the $100/hour artist that takes 12 hours to make you completely satisfied with the product, and the $20/hour artist that takes 50 hours to meet your expectations over a period of 4 months. Again, you get what you pay for, and while you may (as an agency looking for contracted assets) in one or two circumstances be able to find a quality artist for lower pay than was mentioned, it's rare.
D) There are a ton of hidden costs associated with "low cost" artists--again, you may find an exception to the rule, but in general managing an artist that provides the bare necessities for your assets only after 20+ hours worth of emails, conversations, and re-works of the assets, and paying the extra monetary costs can in many cases cost the total project itself a lot less than the cash differential of a lower priced art freelance contract. To paraphrase Joe's explanation: When you can have one email that says, "I need these 3 assets in your standard style, with normal Torque functionality, and I need it by friday", and the freelancer meets every expectation--that's worth it!
Please note that I'm not trying to downplay either the quality or cost effectiveness of Indie Freelance artists, nor am I trying to say that "all artists should charge the amounts listed above"--I'm simply putting Phil's comments back in context of the discussion they were derived from :)
10/19/2005 (11:32 pm)
Quote:
-- Cost $35-80 a hour
--- Around $3000 for a model
--- Around $800 for a texture
--- Concept art is $100-500 a drawing
You're paying way too much then!
Phil's comments were a quick and dirty representation of a 1.5-ish hour mini-seminar on the relationship between a (professional quality) content provider (artist primarily since that's what we had at the discussion--a successful Freelance artist with a title published on multiple platforms, but the principle applies to code contracting as well), and a professional project manager-with multiple titles published on multiple platforms: Joe Marushak in the discussion).
First, a couple of observations:
1) There is a big difference between a skilled but inexperienced artist, and a skilled and highly experienced artist. You pay for that experience, mostly because that experience is going to save you a ton of money in the long run.
2) It's always possible to find either:
--a starving artist that will work for peanuts (both figuratively and literally--they need to eat, and everyone that is a freelance/independent contractor runs into bad times)
--a non-starving artist that has positioned themselves (either through geographical location, or a combination of alternate income and interest in your project) that will work for substantially less than the quotes above.
3) Ultimately, you get what you pay for.
Our guest "freelance artist" (I don't want to state his name without permission, but he is a VERY experienced and long time member of the Torque community) brought up at least 6 reasons why an experienced, professional freelance artist is going to be looking for the rates mentioned--I only remember a couple:
A) They've been there, done that, and have the T-shirt already: they are going to tell the person paying the bills when the money is not being spent wisely: a professional freelancer is extremely jealous of their professional reputation, and isn't going to be willing to accept money for a project that is misguided, unaware of the risks involved, or otherwise "out to lunch". In other words: you aren't just paying for art, you are paying for general game development experience, and it's worth it. One of the examples brought up in the Boot Camp seminar was an "opportunity" where the person looking for consultants had in excess of $60,000 to spend, and was willing to accept spending that money in less than a month--but when the experienced art/creative lead (again, Joe M. in this case) was professional enough to explain that a month from now, they would have to do it all over again because the art requested simply would not meet the project requirements, the contract deliverables and expectations were re-negotiated--in the long run, to the benefit of the people spending the money.
B) As Phil mentioned in his post, the quality of work provided by an experienced professional is well worth the price--it's his (the artist's) job to present art assets that will work for you for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that he has to pay the bills, and therefore is going to give you what you ask in an extremely timely manner.
C) As Phil also mentioned in his response, there is an extremely important difference between the $100/hour artist that takes 12 hours to make you completely satisfied with the product, and the $20/hour artist that takes 50 hours to meet your expectations over a period of 4 months. Again, you get what you pay for, and while you may (as an agency looking for contracted assets) in one or two circumstances be able to find a quality artist for lower pay than was mentioned, it's rare.
D) There are a ton of hidden costs associated with "low cost" artists--again, you may find an exception to the rule, but in general managing an artist that provides the bare necessities for your assets only after 20+ hours worth of emails, conversations, and re-works of the assets, and paying the extra monetary costs can in many cases cost the total project itself a lot less than the cash differential of a lower priced art freelance contract. To paraphrase Joe's explanation: When you can have one email that says, "I need these 3 assets in your standard style, with normal Torque functionality, and I need it by friday", and the freelancer meets every expectation--that's worth it!
Please note that I'm not trying to downplay either the quality or cost effectiveness of Indie Freelance artists, nor am I trying to say that "all artists should charge the amounts listed above"--I'm simply putting Phil's comments back in context of the discussion they were derived from :)
#7
Good post, and goos info
@ Stephen
Well said, I was going to give basically the same brain dump after reading the initial post, for the sake of clarifying things, but you beat me to it.
So I will offer a slightly different take on it.
When I started out as a freelance illustrator...yikes..way too many years ago. I think I was charging like 2-5 dollars for illustrations. You pay your dues and learn. If you love what you do, feel blessed that you get pain at all for doing it and pursue that love relentlessly.
As your skill grows, the work will become easier for you to do, and the experience of creation will grow more rewarding. Not coincidentally, you will find that people value your work more...the trick then, is learning to value your own skills and not feel guilty for charging a worthy fee for your efforts.
10/20/2005 (12:29 am)
@ Mr. Phil Good post, and goos info
@ Stephen
Well said, I was going to give basically the same brain dump after reading the initial post, for the sake of clarifying things, but you beat me to it.
So I will offer a slightly different take on it.
When I started out as a freelance illustrator...yikes..way too many years ago. I think I was charging like 2-5 dollars for illustrations. You pay your dues and learn. If you love what you do, feel blessed that you get pain at all for doing it and pursue that love relentlessly.
As your skill grows, the work will become easier for you to do, and the experience of creation will grow more rewarding. Not coincidentally, you will find that people value your work more...the trick then, is learning to value your own skills and not feel guilty for charging a worthy fee for your efforts.
#8
10/20/2005 (4:30 am)
It
#9
I don
10/20/2005 (4:45 am)
@RaxxQuote:I do think $3000/model is too much, but that also depends on what the model is. If it's both a high poly/high detail (normal map) and low poly version, UV'ed, of a medium to high detailed object or character (of say a character, vehicle, whatever), then it may be worth that much. But for games that cater to the casual PC, it's not necessary. A single mesh (4K-5K tris) with UVs would be worth $200 at the very most, imo. Though I would like to know just who is paying $3000 for their art ;)
I don
#10
And i'm french, so I know what is a high tax rate!
Christophe
10/20/2005 (6:05 am)
I'm totally agree with you Pascal. I made a very similar estimate.And i'm french, so I know what is a high tax rate!
Christophe
#11
Thank you for writing these recap .plans. Like many others, I wasn't able to make it to IGC and your notes have been the next best thing for me.
10/20/2005 (6:18 am)
@PhilThank you for writing these recap .plans. Like many others, I wasn't able to make it to IGC and your notes have been the next best thing for me.
#12
I wanted to chime in and say that was very well presented, and from my experience both freelance and professionally, quite accurate.
@ Others
As another point of reference, I would offer this experience for the discussion. When I was a self-employed architect and illustrator in Oklahoma, the State's rate of tax was 43% for a sole proprietorship. Please note, that was *just* the State - I still had to pay Federal Taxes on my income as well. Additionally, all of those taxes had to be paid quarterly, so your income projection has to include a reasonable estimate of what you will be paying and then accomodate setting that money aside every month so that you can submit your taxes in a timely manner. As a personal bit of advice, don't think you can slide on any of this either - I *did* get audited by the State, and while everything came out fine I lost several days to the process, which of course is lost income.
Finally, while flat fees can be appealing, they are very dangerous. I used to charge $1600 - $2000 for a rendering thinking that was a comfortable amount for how long I knew it would take. (Usually less than a week.) There were a couple of dangerous assumptions in there, however, that came back to haunt me a few times. The first assumption was that the client actually knew what they wanted - view, size, style, etc. The second was that they had the source material finished before I started - building plans, elevations, site plans, topography maps, landscape design. If either of those aren't correct, it can add up to a lot of time spent on revisions and sometimes full model rebuilds. What finally put an end to that was making it clear I would charge an additional $500 per design pass and the completion date was no longer 'set in stone.' The other side of that was I had to be extremely disciplined and when they did have everything I had to absolutely, positively deliver on time or early. The huge benefit of that was to my reputation - I got a lot of work because clients' regular inllustrators missed deadlines and they decided to give someone else (me) a try.
Actually, I thought of one more important issue - getting paid. Depending on the circumstance, you need to be really clear about when payment is due, and if it's an extended project, whether or not you will continue working when payment is late. (The impact on your income needed per week / month should be obvious.) Unfortunately, I learned this the hard way; though I came out better than the rest of the contract artists because I agreed to take $2500 as a settlement instead of the $4800 they owed me. That was, as a point of trivia, my first job in the game industry. ;-)
- Don
Edited for spelling, grammar and clarity.
10/20/2005 (6:23 am)
@ Pascal I wanted to chime in and say that was very well presented, and from my experience both freelance and professionally, quite accurate.
@ Others
As another point of reference, I would offer this experience for the discussion. When I was a self-employed architect and illustrator in Oklahoma, the State's rate of tax was 43% for a sole proprietorship. Please note, that was *just* the State - I still had to pay Federal Taxes on my income as well. Additionally, all of those taxes had to be paid quarterly, so your income projection has to include a reasonable estimate of what you will be paying and then accomodate setting that money aside every month so that you can submit your taxes in a timely manner. As a personal bit of advice, don't think you can slide on any of this either - I *did* get audited by the State, and while everything came out fine I lost several days to the process, which of course is lost income.
Finally, while flat fees can be appealing, they are very dangerous. I used to charge $1600 - $2000 for a rendering thinking that was a comfortable amount for how long I knew it would take. (Usually less than a week.) There were a couple of dangerous assumptions in there, however, that came back to haunt me a few times. The first assumption was that the client actually knew what they wanted - view, size, style, etc. The second was that they had the source material finished before I started - building plans, elevations, site plans, topography maps, landscape design. If either of those aren't correct, it can add up to a lot of time spent on revisions and sometimes full model rebuilds. What finally put an end to that was making it clear I would charge an additional $500 per design pass and the completion date was no longer 'set in stone.' The other side of that was I had to be extremely disciplined and when they did have everything I had to absolutely, positively deliver on time or early. The huge benefit of that was to my reputation - I got a lot of work because clients' regular inllustrators missed deadlines and they decided to give someone else (me) a try.
Actually, I thought of one more important issue - getting paid. Depending on the circumstance, you need to be really clear about when payment is due, and if it's an extended project, whether or not you will continue working when payment is late. (The impact on your income needed per week / month should be obvious.) Unfortunately, I learned this the hard way; though I came out better than the rest of the contract artists because I agreed to take $2500 as a settlement instead of the $4800 they owed me. That was, as a point of trivia, my first job in the game industry. ;-)
- Don
Edited for spelling, grammar and clarity.
#13
I think this has become a very valuable resource! ;)
10/20/2005 (8:25 am)
Pascal, thanks for clarifying everything. The time frames you put down I can relate to enough to understand what you mean.I think this has become a very valuable resource! ;)
#14
by shell flow, I mean the GUI flow of the game.. the shell is the 'wrapping' of the interface elements that surround the actual 'in game' experience.. the user navigation. This is one of the hardest parts of making a game.. you can make it easy on the user (hard to do).. hard on the user (easy to do) or pick a happy point anywhere in the middle. There are tons of 'gotchas' that arise out of the way the shell is designed.. what is saved and when, how settings are stored and what state the player is in.. lots to consider here.. it is harder than it appears and is crucial to the games success.
10/20/2005 (8:49 am)
Quote:I was so focused on what Joe Marushak was saying... that... uh... okay I was a wus and didn't ask him what he meant by the term "Shell flow." I think it is a way of referring an event driven program's control flow?
by shell flow, I mean the GUI flow of the game.. the shell is the 'wrapping' of the interface elements that surround the actual 'in game' experience.. the user navigation. This is one of the hardest parts of making a game.. you can make it easy on the user (hard to do).. hard on the user (easy to do) or pick a happy point anywhere in the middle. There are tons of 'gotchas' that arise out of the way the shell is designed.. what is saved and when, how settings are stored and what state the player is in.. lots to consider here.. it is harder than it appears and is crucial to the games success.
#15
@ Pascal, Raxx, Don, Todd, Canon - Thanks to all the artists who chimed in. As a programmer it is very helpful to get this kind of incite. One thing I've wondered about is concept drawings and how they work. I've seen drawing of characters before, but I wondered do concept drawings work for the look and feel of a game and gui interfaces? I guess what I'm getting at is if I'm fleshing out a concept what is the best way to work with an artist on that? What's the work flow like?
@ Stephen - Thanks for the context. The format of my posts doesn
10/20/2005 (8:50 am)
Awesome discussion! @ Pascal, Raxx, Don, Todd, Canon - Thanks to all the artists who chimed in. As a programmer it is very helpful to get this kind of incite. One thing I've wondered about is concept drawings and how they work. I've seen drawing of characters before, but I wondered do concept drawings work for the look and feel of a game and gui interfaces? I guess what I'm getting at is if I'm fleshing out a concept what is the best way to work with an artist on that? What's the work flow like?
@ Stephen - Thanks for the context. The format of my posts doesn
#16
10/20/2005 (8:55 am)
I think having concept art is a must for most if not all games. For both in-game elements and gui elements, concepts help unify the style the director(s) are going for so that everything remains consistent throughout development. 
#17
You bring up a very good point there, as contractors we run the risk of not being paid or fully paid for the work that we do and as such it is important to factor in this risk into your costs. I was recently hosed for a $3500 job which the client refused to pay after having the materials & invoice (with constant reminders) for 8 months because they claimed that the project had changed so they claimed the work I had done was useless. I had to spend another 3 months after they finally said that they were not paying arguing with them via phone and email about the legality of this and how they still owe me the money. In the end I got a whole $1000 from them. So not only did I lose $2500 but I also lost probably another $500 dealing with them.
So how do I as a contract artist try to get around this?
Well for starters I try to look at a few things:
1) How well do I know the company or individual bringing me the contract. Are they good friends, acquaintances or strangers?
2) Is this speculation work or are they actually serious and have the resources to back it up?
3) Existing content. Does the company have a goal, direction and focus or are they unclear and looking at you to provide it. If the company doesn't look like they have a lot of focus and lacks direction to give you to do your work that is a good sign that there may be problems.
4) Time needed & deliverable date. Is it something that I can hit with the time I have available or do I need to juggle jobs?
If I do not know the company I will assume that there is risk involved and either increase my rate that I quote them (somewhere between 1.2 and 2x depending on how much risk I feel there is), or require that they make 3 milestone payments (1/3 upon start, 1/3 upon me meeting a certain requirement, 1/3 upon delivery). If I do 3 milestone payments I usually try to set it up so that all of my costs are covered by the 2nd payment milestone and thus if the client does refuse to pay the last 1/3 or disappears I am not left taking a loss. If I up my quote rate a little bit I tend to give the client a revised final payment if the work comes in below what I quoted.
I should note that when I deal with companies that I do know fairly well and work with comfortably I will let the above rules slide. In some cases I will work below my normal rate if I can work on the side and with a company that I enjoy working with.
I also want to note that I do think its a good idea to charge a bit extra on your rate to cover risks like this when they do happen. You need to ensure you have a rainy day fund or the ability to pay your bills in a down time. There is no reason why you should have to take a lot of risk when you are quite honestly 9 times out fo 10 are brought in to salvage someone elses problem.
10/20/2005 (9:12 am)
@DonYou bring up a very good point there, as contractors we run the risk of not being paid or fully paid for the work that we do and as such it is important to factor in this risk into your costs. I was recently hosed for a $3500 job which the client refused to pay after having the materials & invoice (with constant reminders) for 8 months because they claimed that the project had changed so they claimed the work I had done was useless. I had to spend another 3 months after they finally said that they were not paying arguing with them via phone and email about the legality of this and how they still owe me the money. In the end I got a whole $1000 from them. So not only did I lose $2500 but I also lost probably another $500 dealing with them.
So how do I as a contract artist try to get around this?
Well for starters I try to look at a few things:
1) How well do I know the company or individual bringing me the contract. Are they good friends, acquaintances or strangers?
2) Is this speculation work or are they actually serious and have the resources to back it up?
3) Existing content. Does the company have a goal, direction and focus or are they unclear and looking at you to provide it. If the company doesn't look like they have a lot of focus and lacks direction to give you to do your work that is a good sign that there may be problems.
4) Time needed & deliverable date. Is it something that I can hit with the time I have available or do I need to juggle jobs?
If I do not know the company I will assume that there is risk involved and either increase my rate that I quote them (somewhere between 1.2 and 2x depending on how much risk I feel there is), or require that they make 3 milestone payments (1/3 upon start, 1/3 upon me meeting a certain requirement, 1/3 upon delivery). If I do 3 milestone payments I usually try to set it up so that all of my costs are covered by the 2nd payment milestone and thus if the client does refuse to pay the last 1/3 or disappears I am not left taking a loss. If I up my quote rate a little bit I tend to give the client a revised final payment if the work comes in below what I quoted.
I should note that when I deal with companies that I do know fairly well and work with comfortably I will let the above rules slide. In some cases I will work below my normal rate if I can work on the side and with a company that I enjoy working with.
I also want to note that I do think its a good idea to charge a bit extra on your rate to cover risks like this when they do happen. You need to ensure you have a rainy day fund or the ability to pay your bills in a down time. There is no reason why you should have to take a lot of risk when you are quite honestly 9 times out fo 10 are brought in to salvage someone elses problem.
#19
Note that I have also done this for people I have worked for.. I have taken their email descriptions.. googles for images, arranged them in a collage and ask "Like this?"
it is a useful way to approach the problem, especially if you know what you are looking for but lack the artistic skills to convey the style you want.
10/20/2005 (9:30 am)
I want to reiterate what Pascal has said about the collage.. when I am exploring a concept.. I just go to google and collect images.. and arrange them into a big collage or series of collages. This gives the concept artist a good starting point from which to depart, and it is pretty easy to do. I generally make a web page for each project with some examples and other imagery. Note that I have also done this for people I have worked for.. I have taken their email descriptions.. googles for images, arranged them in a collage and ask "Like this?"
it is a useful way to approach the problem, especially if you know what you are looking for but lack the artistic skills to convey the style you want.
#20
@ Pascal, glad you broke that down for everyone, cause I didn't want to have to do it.
I will offer one thing last bit of advice to any artist (or any freelancer for that matter), GET A GOOD TAX ACCOUNTANT!!!
Can't tell you how much work, stress, and money that has saved me.
10/20/2005 (10:26 am)
WOW! Good stuff all the way around!@ Pascal, glad you broke that down for everyone, cause I didn't want to have to do it.
I will offer one thing last bit of advice to any artist (or any freelancer for that matter), GET A GOOD TAX ACCOUNTANT!!!
Can't tell you how much work, stress, and money that has saved me.
Torque Owner Raxx
--- Cost $35-80 a hour
--- Around $3000 for a model
--- Around $800 for a texture
Woah :P Anything more you can reveal about it?