Plan for Jeff Tunnell
10/13/2005 (5:22 pm) by Jeff Tunnell
NOTE The response to my email box for this message has been overwhelming. I would ask that if you are interested in working with GarageGames in the following manner, please fill out your GG Profile in great detail, fill out the GG Project Profile in great detail, then send me links to those profiles (or your website if that has the information). Also, please don't send me an email asking for more information. The following message gives you all that I know right now. I can tell you that we already have at least six games working under these new ideas (they were started prior to this message being written). Jeff
Now that Mark is running all of the day to day stuff and making sure our technology development efforts are heading in the right direction, I will be concentrating more on the "exploitation" of everything we are creating here at GarageGames. This includes things like growing the community, making the web site better, setting strategies for game distribution, and lastly and probably most interesting to all of you... making games!
Some of these games in internal, but GarageGames is way too small to make all of the games we need. That is where you come in. Last week at IGC during Associates Day, we announced this Game Making initiative to the 40 or so Associates that attended our behind the curtain look at what is going on at GG. We were not really ready to announce what we are doing at the conference, and maybe even now we are not ready, but I do think it is time to start talking about helping you make games.
In the six years since we started GarageGames, we have found that simply sitting back and waiting for games to be made is not bringing them in fast enough or good enough for us to keep up with the market needs. Six years ago, I would have guessed that we would be looking at hundreds of games by now, but that has turned out not to be the case. Actually, in the course of a year, we do get several hundred submissions, but most of those are not worth looking at. In order for the GarageGames to be significant as a publisher, we need to be turning out at least 10 great games per year.
I have a lot of ideas for how to fix this problem, and I will be writing about this at length in this blog, in ebooks, and articles over the next year. For now, the base of the theory is that we will be willing to help promising developers by "filling in the blanks". For example, if you are a good TGE programmer that needs art, we will help find the artists, vice verse, if you are an artist looking for a programmer. We can help with finding funding, design ideas, product strategy, technology, etc. The idea is to have literally hundreds of people working together in a tight ecosystem, the results of which will be enough games allow Jay to set up even more distribution channels to sell more games. These games will range from casual to hard core and the target platforms range from PC to console to mobile phones.
If you are interested in the opportunity, send me an email at jefft at garagegames dot com. We are only interested in people using Torque technologies or are interested in porting their games to TAP. It is not that we need to make the money from the technology, it is just that we know that if we invest in a game, we need to know that the technology behind it can take advantage of all of the opportunities (cross platform, console, mobile, etc. that TGE product can). If you have a great product written on another technology, we will give you TGE, T2D, etc. as well as help you get it ported to our technologies.
Oh, and one last point. I will try to reply to every opportunity, but sometimes I get so many that I can't reply.
Edit: I posted some thoughts on the games shown at IGC in this thread:
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=35528
Now that Mark is running all of the day to day stuff and making sure our technology development efforts are heading in the right direction, I will be concentrating more on the "exploitation" of everything we are creating here at GarageGames. This includes things like growing the community, making the web site better, setting strategies for game distribution, and lastly and probably most interesting to all of you... making games!
Some of these games in internal, but GarageGames is way too small to make all of the games we need. That is where you come in. Last week at IGC during Associates Day, we announced this Game Making initiative to the 40 or so Associates that attended our behind the curtain look at what is going on at GG. We were not really ready to announce what we are doing at the conference, and maybe even now we are not ready, but I do think it is time to start talking about helping you make games.
In the six years since we started GarageGames, we have found that simply sitting back and waiting for games to be made is not bringing them in fast enough or good enough for us to keep up with the market needs. Six years ago, I would have guessed that we would be looking at hundreds of games by now, but that has turned out not to be the case. Actually, in the course of a year, we do get several hundred submissions, but most of those are not worth looking at. In order for the GarageGames to be significant as a publisher, we need to be turning out at least 10 great games per year.
I have a lot of ideas for how to fix this problem, and I will be writing about this at length in this blog, in ebooks, and articles over the next year. For now, the base of the theory is that we will be willing to help promising developers by "filling in the blanks". For example, if you are a good TGE programmer that needs art, we will help find the artists, vice verse, if you are an artist looking for a programmer. We can help with finding funding, design ideas, product strategy, technology, etc. The idea is to have literally hundreds of people working together in a tight ecosystem, the results of which will be enough games allow Jay to set up even more distribution channels to sell more games. These games will range from casual to hard core and the target platforms range from PC to console to mobile phones.
If you are interested in the opportunity, send me an email at jefft at garagegames dot com. We are only interested in people using Torque technologies or are interested in porting their games to TAP. It is not that we need to make the money from the technology, it is just that we know that if we invest in a game, we need to know that the technology behind it can take advantage of all of the opportunities (cross platform, console, mobile, etc. that TGE product can). If you have a great product written on another technology, we will give you TGE, T2D, etc. as well as help you get it ported to our technologies.
Oh, and one last point. I will try to reply to every opportunity, but sometimes I get so many that I can't reply.
Edit: I posted some thoughts on the games shown at IGC in this thread:
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=35528
About the author
Check out [url=http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/user/Jeff%20Tunnell]Tunnell's Great Games Experiment profile.[/url] Currently at [url=http://pushbuttonlabs.com]PushButton Labs[/url] where are are creating an Open Source Flash game engine, [url=http://pushbuttonengine]PushButton Engine[/url], and Flash games such as [url=http://playgrunts.com]Grunts: Skirmish[/url]. Co-Founder of GarageGames, which is probably 'nuff said on this site. Co-Founder of Dynamix, a game development division of Sierra On-Line and Vivendi-Universal Interactive. I have either designed, produced, or directed more than 70 titles including Rise of the Dragon, The Incredible Machine, Starsiege, and TRIBES (Online Game of the Year, AIAS). He has pioneered new game genres such as Outdoor Sports with Trophy Bass and Family Entertainment with the 3-D Ultra line of products that includes such mass-market titles as Pinball, Maximum Minigolf, and Cool Pool. [gge_user=jeff tunnell] view profile »
#2
I was great to see you again at IGC. And this helping hand you're discussing will be a huge boost to those that realize they should take advantage of it.
- LightWave Dave
10/13/2005 (5:43 pm)
Greetings Jeff!I was great to see you again at IGC. And this helping hand you're discussing will be a huge boost to those that realize they should take advantage of it.
- LightWave Dave
#3
10/13/2005 (5:47 pm)
I also love this idea. The biggest hurdle I have is artwork. Right now I am not in a position to hire an artist. But if the demo and storyline proves worthy enough, who knows, maybe it will atract the attention of GG and/or an artist.
#4
I read posts and plans and listen in irc to programmers and artists who are amazing at what they do but need to be connected to each other to create the game that they DO have the ability to create. And I think that the ellusive part of making an indie game is the creation of a capable team. Sometimes I want to tell programmer x that they need to get together with artist a and b and project manager z. But who am I to do that? You know. I am so glad that you guys will be doing this. I think that this will make all the difference in the world.
This community keeps kicking more and more ass every day!!
10/13/2005 (6:36 pm)
This is the most exciting news that I have heard in a very long time!!! I can't wait to see what the community can accomplish with even more leadership and guidance from Jeff Tunnell and the Garage Games team!!! I read posts and plans and listen in irc to programmers and artists who are amazing at what they do but need to be connected to each other to create the game that they DO have the ability to create. And I think that the ellusive part of making an indie game is the creation of a capable team. Sometimes I want to tell programmer x that they need to get together with artist a and b and project manager z. But who am I to do that? You know. I am so glad that you guys will be doing this. I think that this will make all the difference in the world.
This community keeps kicking more and more ass every day!!
#5
10/13/2005 (6:40 pm)
This is very awesome, really gives indie devs an opportunity to get help, advice, and assistance in making a Torque game :)
#6
I could have saved time and money if GG had hooked me up with a reliable artist.
10/13/2005 (6:56 pm)
I really could have used this a month or two ago... I went through 13 artist with Basic Bob (and I DO pay) ... and only managed to find 3 that were reliable. I could have saved time and money if GG had hooked me up with a reliable artist.
#7
Happy to see you come back in such a positive role.
Really cool.
10/13/2005 (7:20 pm)
Great incentive. Guidance is what most of us need in this stormy sea of hardcore development. And based on your brutal honesty (which I totally appreciate), this can only help developers churn out great games.Happy to see you come back in such a positive role.
Really cool.
#8
It'll be interesting to hear more about what you have planned to make the "tight ecosystem" a reality :)
10/13/2005 (7:29 pm)
I'm always on the lookout for additional contract programming work as I'm sure many others in the community are, so anything that helps link up community members to make that happen would be a very good thing imo. This sounds like a win-win situation for both GG and the GG Community, you can't get better ideas than that.It'll be interesting to hear more about what you have planned to make the "tight ecosystem" a reality :)
#9
It is really good to hear that Garage Games is moving in this direction.
I have an extensive background in the dev biz, but am now independent and sold on inde development for all the reason I got into the industry originally.
Your idea articulates the thoughts that have been bouncing around in my head the past few months and I am very interested in being involved.
10/13/2005 (7:46 pm)
Jeff,It is really good to hear that Garage Games is moving in this direction.
I have an extensive background in the dev biz, but am now independent and sold on inde development for all the reason I got into the industry originally.
Your idea articulates the thoughts that have been bouncing around in my head the past few months and I am very interested in being involved.
#10
10/13/2005 (8:32 pm)
Great .plan. Good to hear about the future of Garage Games.
#11
10/13/2005 (9:02 pm)
This is a great initiative. There is so much talent floating around, a good kick in the right direction will help immensely
#13
long distances via internet tools. GG charges a project / access fee for using the project mgmt tools.
In return the high fee level "Gold Project" "Silver Project" "Basic".. with gold being like $1000 bucks you get
more support like calling Jeff at 3 am with a script problem (total humor haha).. anyways just random ideas.
10/13/2005 (9:24 pm)
Yea I think there is a lot of potential in "telecommuting"... organizing game development groups overlong distances via internet tools. GG charges a project / access fee for using the project mgmt tools.
In return the high fee level "Gold Project" "Silver Project" "Basic".. with gold being like $1000 bucks you get
more support like calling Jeff at 3 am with a script problem (total humor haha).. anyways just random ideas.
#14
10/13/2005 (10:13 pm)
Wow very exciting and I am sure it will help a great deal as it is hard to find reliable people and the right resources on your own
#16
The thing I've picked up this year has been that even though I'm desperate to finish this game, even though it will really be a step ahead of any other game of its type. Generally, the market right now isnt likely to be very conducive to the game.
Right now, the biggest thing is to get some smaller, lighter games out there. But what about the future for games like Air Ace? I mean, if ESD is going to just connect with "casual" games, where does the future of all those lost genre's lie? Are dogfighting games a thing of the past? Are tank based tactical games dead? Do helicopter sims not have any future?
The slightly sad thing is that the "casual" games are viable en-masse because you can literally apply a scatter-gun effect and ship lots of them. The usual casual publisher thing of always keeping new games on the sales page *isnt that big fish policy??*
So we start turning out these puzzle games and bubble poppers and the usual casual game fluff, but what about the more passionate games from genres now pretty much dead?
I kind of hope that one of the things GG can help us do in the coming years, is to provide a means for us to develop and distribute on a larger scale, those kind of games where traditional publishing has died. Sure the low hanging fruit right now is match tree puzzlers etc.. but what of all the Red Baron style games? Where do those fit in? Nobody at real, or popcap or whoever are going to champion THAT kind of game... I'm hoping that GG is at least going provide an outlet for these kinds of games.
I'm happy to make the casual games to build the business, but at what point does that market become unviable? When does EA hop in and simply buy out the whole marketplace? What then?
Anyway, its great to see you back and I know that all your advice is 100% gold. Its just kind of hard to hear it sometimes when youre passionate about something ;)
10/14/2005 (1:57 am)
I was disappointed that I really didnt have a proper demo at the IGC. If we'd have got the MP together for the show, it would have been a damn sight better an experience than just flying around strafing some non-shootable ships..The thing I've picked up this year has been that even though I'm desperate to finish this game, even though it will really be a step ahead of any other game of its type. Generally, the market right now isnt likely to be very conducive to the game.
Right now, the biggest thing is to get some smaller, lighter games out there. But what about the future for games like Air Ace? I mean, if ESD is going to just connect with "casual" games, where does the future of all those lost genre's lie? Are dogfighting games a thing of the past? Are tank based tactical games dead? Do helicopter sims not have any future?
The slightly sad thing is that the "casual" games are viable en-masse because you can literally apply a scatter-gun effect and ship lots of them. The usual casual publisher thing of always keeping new games on the sales page *isnt that big fish policy??*
So we start turning out these puzzle games and bubble poppers and the usual casual game fluff, but what about the more passionate games from genres now pretty much dead?
I kind of hope that one of the things GG can help us do in the coming years, is to provide a means for us to develop and distribute on a larger scale, those kind of games where traditional publishing has died. Sure the low hanging fruit right now is match tree puzzlers etc.. but what of all the Red Baron style games? Where do those fit in? Nobody at real, or popcap or whoever are going to champion THAT kind of game... I'm hoping that GG is at least going provide an outlet for these kinds of games.
I'm happy to make the casual games to build the business, but at what point does that market become unviable? When does EA hop in and simply buy out the whole marketplace? What then?
Anyway, its great to see you back and I know that all your advice is 100% gold. Its just kind of hard to hear it sometimes when youre passionate about something ;)
#17
10/14/2005 (3:46 am)
Awesome, I really think GarageGames has to move forward in this direction. The competition is building and many great games are been pumped out of Game Engines that are not nearly as complete or well written as TGE. Well GL
#18
Not once did I tell everybody to just make casual games. I do not think for a minute that all of the old categories are going away. Like we discussed, I totally believe that there are a lot of people that still want to play some of the old genres like flight sims, sub sims, naval sims, etc. But, making the game will be the easy part. You will need to have a business model if you want to make money from your product. Launching a multi-player, for pay product without building up an audience is a sure way to fail in today's market. It would not matter if your game was a simulation or a big mecha game or a vector graphics multi-player top down arcade (I think you can read into these descriptions and figure out that I am speaking from experience). On the bright side, look at the huge adoption of BlockLand. There are people out there that want to play games in genres other than casual. In fact, the usual suspects of Marble Blast, Think Tanks, and Orbz are not casual games and have not exactly taken the casual cahnnels by storm, but all of those games have done very well.
GG will not be concentrating just on casual games, but we will take advantage of the fact that, at this moment in time, it is a good place to make some good, fun games, and maybe make some money. The fact that the mobile phone market is backing up the casual game market makes it even more enticing. However, we also like to make games that are a little more in-depth, so we will be making some games that are not right for the casual channel, but are instead targeted at our own GG audience as well as consoles and handhelds.
Please note that we willnot be making casual games by holding our nose and making a game just to make money. I actually enjoy the smaller games (look at some of the games that I have made in the past), and look forward to creating some kick ass products. If you don't believe in the market or don't like the games, I think it would be an absolute waste of your time to try to make one.
10/14/2005 (6:16 am)
@Phil,Not once did I tell everybody to just make casual games. I do not think for a minute that all of the old categories are going away. Like we discussed, I totally believe that there are a lot of people that still want to play some of the old genres like flight sims, sub sims, naval sims, etc. But, making the game will be the easy part. You will need to have a business model if you want to make money from your product. Launching a multi-player, for pay product without building up an audience is a sure way to fail in today's market. It would not matter if your game was a simulation or a big mecha game or a vector graphics multi-player top down arcade (I think you can read into these descriptions and figure out that I am speaking from experience). On the bright side, look at the huge adoption of BlockLand. There are people out there that want to play games in genres other than casual. In fact, the usual suspects of Marble Blast, Think Tanks, and Orbz are not casual games and have not exactly taken the casual cahnnels by storm, but all of those games have done very well.
GG will not be concentrating just on casual games, but we will take advantage of the fact that, at this moment in time, it is a good place to make some good, fun games, and maybe make some money. The fact that the mobile phone market is backing up the casual game market makes it even more enticing. However, we also like to make games that are a little more in-depth, so we will be making some games that are not right for the casual channel, but are instead targeted at our own GG audience as well as consoles and handhelds.
Please note that we willnot be making casual games by holding our nose and making a game just to make money. I actually enjoy the smaller games (look at some of the games that I have made in the past), and look forward to creating some kick ass products. If you don't believe in the market or don't like the games, I think it would be an absolute waste of your time to try to make one.
#19
I know that I sure didn't join this community to make puzzle games! I am making one but I started it to gain practical experience managing the entire development of a game from start to finish. It is a simple inexpensive game for me to cut my teeth on. I like playing it but I don't sit up late at night drinking caffine talking to friends about how cool it would be to make a puzzle game. I stay up talking to friends about how cool it would be to make a game out of my own imagination. My lost and found and then lost and found genre is sword fighting games. I still want to play a 3rd person Robin Hood game. There will always be a place for the lost and found game genres. And thank God that people like you are there to make them. I ain't the only one salivating to buy the completed pimped out TSE Air Ace game! We want it now! So hurry up and make it for us!!!
For the record... puzzle games are games too and I am not trying to say that they... ah hell, who am I kidding. They are fun as hell but you all know.
10/14/2005 (6:49 am)
@PhilI know that I sure didn't join this community to make puzzle games! I am making one but I started it to gain practical experience managing the entire development of a game from start to finish. It is a simple inexpensive game for me to cut my teeth on. I like playing it but I don't sit up late at night drinking caffine talking to friends about how cool it would be to make a puzzle game. I stay up talking to friends about how cool it would be to make a game out of my own imagination. My lost and found and then lost and found genre is sword fighting games. I still want to play a 3rd person Robin Hood game. There will always be a place for the lost and found game genres. And thank God that people like you are there to make them. I ain't the only one salivating to buy the completed pimped out TSE Air Ace game! We want it now! So hurry up and make it for us!!!
For the record... puzzle games are games too and I am not trying to say that they... ah hell, who am I kidding. They are fun as hell but you all know.
#20
Pack man was a great game. If you made it today, it would be a "casual game" for your phone, and I think it would be just as addictive.
Quake..and for that matter most of the knock offs that followed it were little more than Pac-man underneath it all.
You run around gobbling up power ups, and learning the best pattern through the level/maze to set the new speed record. Get the right power up and your are invulnerable and can go eat the ghost ..err..shoot the bad guys with impunity, hop through the teleporter and pop up on the other side of the maze! Keep gobbling up the power ups..waka waka waka waka waka waka...
The producer for the first PC I ever worked on is now...7-8 years later, working at Nokia with their mobile games. There is a lot happening with mobile games, and as the tech grows (specifically battery life), the potential for great games grows. Last time I spoke to him he was loving it. Good money, fun work, good future for growth.
Hell, I could play devils advocate here and say that "casual games" should be our mantra. Isn't it companies like EA that we have to blame for the state of things today?...push the tech, double the budget, triple the team, cut the developers profit, unwritten but mandatory 70-80 hour work weeks. Crap in a box, make sequel #2, sequel #3...of the same hack movie/IP, forget originality, market the hell out of it and the fools will buy it!
Casual games are a perfect proving ground for original thought and design. And Jeff you are dead right, casual games are a good thing..a smart thing right now.
Make a good casual game and learn a lot, and yes perhaps even make some money while your at it. Hell, make ten, then take what you have learned and make "that game", the one that came form playing a thousand other games then putting down the control while saying "if it just had (insert feature here)", or "wouldn't it be awesome if.."
I don't know about you, but I have been making games since I was 5. It was Alligators and lava (while hopping from one black tile in the grocery store to the next), then green army men in the front lawn with sling shots for artillery. And eventually pen and paper RPGs. The rest is history.
You want to make a game? I hope you do it because you love it, and because you can't not do it.
We may be making games, but take it seriously. Its more than pixels and numbers.
...that said, I am working on the Pirate game I always wanted to play :O)
10/14/2005 (7:27 am)
Not sure where I am going with this, its late and I need sleep, but the posting has me all fired up so here goes.Pack man was a great game. If you made it today, it would be a "casual game" for your phone, and I think it would be just as addictive.
Quake..and for that matter most of the knock offs that followed it were little more than Pac-man underneath it all.
You run around gobbling up power ups, and learning the best pattern through the level/maze to set the new speed record. Get the right power up and your are invulnerable and can go eat the ghost ..err..shoot the bad guys with impunity, hop through the teleporter and pop up on the other side of the maze! Keep gobbling up the power ups..waka waka waka waka waka waka...
The producer for the first PC I ever worked on is now...7-8 years later, working at Nokia with their mobile games. There is a lot happening with mobile games, and as the tech grows (specifically battery life), the potential for great games grows. Last time I spoke to him he was loving it. Good money, fun work, good future for growth.
Hell, I could play devils advocate here and say that "casual games" should be our mantra. Isn't it companies like EA that we have to blame for the state of things today?...push the tech, double the budget, triple the team, cut the developers profit, unwritten but mandatory 70-80 hour work weeks. Crap in a box, make sequel #2, sequel #3...of the same hack movie/IP, forget originality, market the hell out of it and the fools will buy it!
Casual games are a perfect proving ground for original thought and design. And Jeff you are dead right, casual games are a good thing..a smart thing right now.
Make a good casual game and learn a lot, and yes perhaps even make some money while your at it. Hell, make ten, then take what you have learned and make "that game", the one that came form playing a thousand other games then putting down the control while saying "if it just had (insert feature here)", or "wouldn't it be awesome if.."
I don't know about you, but I have been making games since I was 5. It was Alligators and lava (while hopping from one black tile in the grocery store to the next), then green army men in the front lawn with sling shots for artillery. And eventually pen and paper RPGs. The rest is history.
You want to make a game? I hope you do it because you love it, and because you can't not do it.
We may be making games, but take it seriously. Its more than pixels and numbers.
...that said, I am working on the Pirate game I always wanted to play :O)
Torque Owner Keith MJK