Plan for Jeff Tunnell
03/29/2005 (9:48 pm) by Jeff Tunnell
www.gamespot.com//pc/action/tribesvengeance/news_6121146.html
"According to NPD, Vengence has sold just over 43,000 units through February"
Let's see...
Income:
43,000 units. Retail price: $19.99. Wholesale price: $12.00. = $516,000.
Costs:
Unreal Engine License + 2 years support: $950,000.
(let's say they got a bulk deal), so knock it down to $500,000.
Development Fees: $3,000,000 est.
Marketing Costs: $250,000 est.
Inventory: 200,000 units at $2/unit: $400,000
TOTAL COSTS: $4,150,000
TOTAL INCOME: 516,000
TOTAL PROFIT (LOSS): ($3,634,400)
Note: In case you don't know what () means, accounts use it as a sign of LOSS.
I think the above numbers are probably very conservative (especially the marketing costs). The actual loss is probably more like $4MM or 5MM.
Last night I was in the local EB World store. For some reason, I had never looked at the TV box. I finally found one on the very bottom, totally trashed, with a bunch of mark down stickers and a final price of $17.99!
Oh man. That box! It is an absolute disaster. I honestly could not believe how bad it was. They took the awesome art look of Tribes and turned it into something that looked like fan art from a 13 year old.
It just goes to show that you cannot make games by the recipe, i.e. good developers, Unreal Engine, lots of budget and development time, proven franchise, etc. Even with the right ingredients, it still takes somebody or a group of people to make the magic.
Anyway, that is probably enough gloating. Please do not take this as a slam against the developers of TV, most of this was out of their control.
"According to NPD, Vengence has sold just over 43,000 units through February"
Let's see...
Income:
43,000 units. Retail price: $19.99. Wholesale price: $12.00. = $516,000.
Costs:
Unreal Engine License + 2 years support: $950,000.
(let's say they got a bulk deal), so knock it down to $500,000.
Development Fees: $3,000,000 est.
Marketing Costs: $250,000 est.
Inventory: 200,000 units at $2/unit: $400,000
TOTAL COSTS: $4,150,000
TOTAL INCOME: 516,000
TOTAL PROFIT (LOSS): ($3,634,400)
Note: In case you don't know what () means, accounts use it as a sign of LOSS.
I think the above numbers are probably very conservative (especially the marketing costs). The actual loss is probably more like $4MM or 5MM.
Last night I was in the local EB World store. For some reason, I had never looked at the TV box. I finally found one on the very bottom, totally trashed, with a bunch of mark down stickers and a final price of $17.99!
Oh man. That box! It is an absolute disaster. I honestly could not believe how bad it was. They took the awesome art look of Tribes and turned it into something that looked like fan art from a 13 year old.
It just goes to show that you cannot make games by the recipe, i.e. good developers, Unreal Engine, lots of budget and development time, proven franchise, etc. Even with the right ingredients, it still takes somebody or a group of people to make the magic.
Anyway, that is probably enough gloating. Please do not take this as a slam against the developers of TV, most of this was out of their control.
About the author
Check out [url=http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/user/Jeff%20Tunnell]Tunnell's Great Games Experiment profile.[/url] Currently at [url=http://pushbuttonlabs.com]PushButton Labs[/url] where are are creating an Open Source Flash game engine, [url=http://pushbuttonengine]PushButton Engine[/url], and Flash games such as [url=http://playgrunts.com]Grunts: Skirmish[/url]. Co-Founder of GarageGames, which is probably 'nuff said on this site. Co-Founder of Dynamix, a game development division of Sierra On-Line and Vivendi-Universal Interactive. I have either designed, produced, or directed more than 70 titles including Rise of the Dragon, The Incredible Machine, Starsiege, and TRIBES (Online Game of the Year, AIAS). He has pioneered new game genres such as Outdoor Sports with Trophy Bass and Family Entertainment with the 3-D Ultra line of products that includes such mass-market titles as Pinball, Maximum Minigolf, and Cool Pool. [gge_user=jeff tunnell] view profile »
#3
03/29/2005 (9:49 pm)
DoH! Oh well, even with correct math, the loss is huge. 
#4
03/29/2005 (9:54 pm)
Jeff you forgot the cost of a Havok Physics Engine liscense in your totals too. 
#5
03/29/2005 (9:59 pm)
It's a shame if it kills the franchise though. We shall see. 
#6
03/29/2005 (10:03 pm)
If only they'd developed the game on a budget ... $516,000 would be great if they'd only spent even $100,000 on the game's development. Development tools are really over inflated when you consider they paid more than the game made just for the tools used to make it.
#7
I hate to see the Dynamix legacy end up like this, but I do feel that VU got exactly what they deserved.
03/29/2005 (10:35 pm)
Think they would sell me the Tribes name now that they are done with it? LOLI hate to see the Dynamix legacy end up like this, but I do feel that VU got exactly what they deserved.
#8
One day the bean-counters may realize that you can't make videogames on an assembly line.
03/29/2005 (10:43 pm)
Most likely, this is going to go into someone's books as proof that "PC Gaming is dead." Even though you don't have to go far (Half Life 2) to refute it. One day the bean-counters may realize that you can't make videogames on an assembly line.
#9
03/29/2005 (10:48 pm)
I thought something must be up when they canceled the planned and all future uptdates/patches to the title. That's quite the (loss) ;) 
#10
03/29/2005 (10:56 pm)
:o) 
#11
03/29/2005 (11:05 pm)
Wow, oddly enough Zach, Robert, Alex and myself were talking about this very exact thing at lunch today. :)
#12
03/29/2005 (11:10 pm)
Jeff has taken over my case of Rabies for the time being.
#13
I cannot understand how anyone can make a game with an engine that costs nearly a million dollars alone, then expect to make money. First you have to pay people to make the game itself, which can take years. Then you have to box it and market it. You have to sell hundreds of thousands of copies to break even. I think the game industry is trying to do what Hollywood does.
The problem is that if a movie fails the studio can recoup some money in DVD sales and rental fees. Games don't have that secondary income. They have the bargain bin at EB Games. I can't understand why anyone releases a game that requires stores. Everyone has a cable modem or DSL these days it seems. Why make a box, print a manual and stamp a CD?
I am not saying that it is not possible to make a great PC game and make money this way. I just think that it is already a rarity in today's market. People just aren
03/30/2005 (12:39 am)
I cannot understand how anyone can make a game with an engine that costs nearly a million dollars alone, then expect to make money. First you have to pay people to make the game itself, which can take years. Then you have to box it and market it. You have to sell hundreds of thousands of copies to break even. I think the game industry is trying to do what Hollywood does.
The problem is that if a movie fails the studio can recoup some money in DVD sales and rental fees. Games don't have that secondary income. They have the bargain bin at EB Games. I can't understand why anyone releases a game that requires stores. Everyone has a cable modem or DSL these days it seems. Why make a box, print a manual and stamp a CD?
I am not saying that it is not possible to make a great PC game and make money this way. I just think that it is already a rarity in today's market. People just aren
#14
RIP old friend... *sob*
03/30/2005 (12:45 am)
P.S. Tribes 1 was a big part of my life. At 17 I was deflowered as my Tribes dedicated server ran in the background humming...the warmth of my Creative Blaster Voodoo card radiating accross the room...it brings back memories. RIP old friend... *sob*
#15
Tribes:V I like as a game. Though Unlike alot of old tribesers I didnt want or expect a clone of tribes1/2 I was hoping for a game that was diffrent but incorporated the tribes parts that to me made tribes fun. The jetpack and skiing and inv stations and such where what made tribes so fun to me.
I love t:v skiing its a blast and so much better IMHO then tribes1/2. The problems I have with it are mainly due to the fact that most of the maps are FAR to small when they didnt need to be. Unreal tech can deal with far larger maps, This is a FACT. IG/VUG wanted the game to be IN YOU FACE. Thats not tribes.....
I have no problem with unreal tech or torq or any game engin for that matter. The farcry engin is pretty kool if you system can coap(seen it choke a system at 800x600 that could run t:v at 1280x1024 maxed out.)
the worst flaw in t:v was the marketing and time of relice. You dont put out a tribes game against a doom/quake/halflife or even bf type game. They will win tribes is a niche game even t:v isnt main stream really. And you dont confuse the marketing. Eather market it as a sp game or an mp game not the muddled crap they did. Also they didnt put the name out for shit. Nobody i know that wasnt into xmp/tribes/unreal community had a clue about it.
Blah i hope vug chokes and dies.....
03/30/2005 (1:03 am)
Tribes1 was great but starsiege was my true love for pc games. Thentribes2 was a dessaster crashed on update and played like crap. After full patching and having the t2c mod added it was better but still not great.Tribes:V I like as a game. Though Unlike alot of old tribesers I didnt want or expect a clone of tribes1/2 I was hoping for a game that was diffrent but incorporated the tribes parts that to me made tribes fun. The jetpack and skiing and inv stations and such where what made tribes so fun to me.
I love t:v skiing its a blast and so much better IMHO then tribes1/2. The problems I have with it are mainly due to the fact that most of the maps are FAR to small when they didnt need to be. Unreal tech can deal with far larger maps, This is a FACT. IG/VUG wanted the game to be IN YOU FACE. Thats not tribes.....
I have no problem with unreal tech or torq or any game engin for that matter. The farcry engin is pretty kool if you system can coap(seen it choke a system at 800x600 that could run t:v at 1280x1024 maxed out.)
the worst flaw in t:v was the marketing and time of relice. You dont put out a tribes game against a doom/quake/halflife or even bf type game. They will win tribes is a niche game even t:v isnt main stream really. And you dont confuse the marketing. Eather market it as a sp game or an mp game not the muddled crap they did. Also they didnt put the name out for shit. Nobody i know that wasnt into xmp/tribes/unreal community had a clue about it.
Blah i hope vug chokes and dies.....
#16
03/30/2005 (1:46 am)
they should of used torque. lol
#17
03/30/2005 (2:29 am)
They couldn't use Torque. They had a multi-million dollar budget and every executive knows you can't hand over millions of dollars to people you don't know(Torque SDK owners) to program a game. You have to hire an established studio that has millions in payroll, utilities, equipment, and taxes to pay. That's the way it works. If you have millions to spend, you find the best way to get the least from it. Hell, the $100.00 price tag is enough to tell any "Smart Executive" that you need to stay a mile away from Torque. After all, what could you possiby get for $100.00 bucks? LOL
#18
My thoughts exactly.
I do feel bad for the devs though. I was never keeping tabs on the game as it was being produced, but I can only imagine they got an insane raping from the higher ups through the entire process... And the end result is a game no one is buying. That just sucks.
03/30/2005 (3:38 am)
Quote:I hate to see the Dynamix legacy end up like this, but I do feel that VU got exactly what they deserved.
My thoughts exactly.
I do feel bad for the devs though. I was never keeping tabs on the game as it was being produced, but I can only imagine they got an insane raping from the higher ups through the entire process... And the end result is a game no one is buying. That just sucks.
#20
03/30/2005 (4:03 am)
Don't forget the Tribes mod "Renegades" is too.
Torque Owner Jeremy Alessi
Wasn't the total amount of wholesale $516,000 for a total loss of of about ($3,634,000) instead of only $51,600 for wholesale?
Still ... much agreed you can't just throw good tools, money, and a franchise at a project and expect the game to rock. Sure it'll help but you definitely need an inspired group of people make it magic.