Plan for Melv May
by Melv May · 06/04/2004 (12:17 am) · 10 comments
Got a week off work so I decided to work on a simple project that wouldn't dominate what little time I've got at the moment. Started working on a basic 2D framework which would allow, from script, the creation of 2D games. A nice way to introduce people to the wonderful world of games creation without the sometimes overwhelming aspect of 3D.
After my dev-snapshot I found out that Phil Carlisle (amongst others) are also working on a similar project and have been for quite a while, doh!
The good thing is that this indicates that it's a worthwhile project and so I'll try to contribute to the existing work that Phil's been doing. First though, I'll continue and complete the work I planned this week which should produce a neat framework for 2D games development.
After that, I suppose it could go up as a resource for anyone to generally mess with or perhaps Phil can absorb some of the ideas within his work, assuming it's worthwhile.
I've been playing with the TSE lately and it's a really great product but I fear that with power like this comes complexity and that it may, at least initially, simple allow people to produce tech-demos rather than games although in the long run it will produce some fantastic looking games.
Attempting a smaller, more humble 2D project, should allow people to focus on gameplay more, rather than all the complexities of 3D graphics. It would also be a great stepping-stone for people new to games development and the TGE itself. I expected to see handfuls of simple, probably crazy games all over the community but that doesn't seem to be the case. I think that the investment in time and effort to generate a 3D game is enormous as well as the fact that lots of people are proud and want to release something approaching commercial quality games (me included). In some ways, doing a simple 2D scroller or something similar which is far less complex, allows you to focus on the game itself and possibly be more creative.
Get addicted to creating gameplay, not graphics.
- Melv.
After my dev-snapshot I found out that Phil Carlisle (amongst others) are also working on a similar project and have been for quite a while, doh!
The good thing is that this indicates that it's a worthwhile project and so I'll try to contribute to the existing work that Phil's been doing. First though, I'll continue and complete the work I planned this week which should produce a neat framework for 2D games development.
After that, I suppose it could go up as a resource for anyone to generally mess with or perhaps Phil can absorb some of the ideas within his work, assuming it's worthwhile.
I've been playing with the TSE lately and it's a really great product but I fear that with power like this comes complexity and that it may, at least initially, simple allow people to produce tech-demos rather than games although in the long run it will produce some fantastic looking games.
Attempting a smaller, more humble 2D project, should allow people to focus on gameplay more, rather than all the complexities of 3D graphics. It would also be a great stepping-stone for people new to games development and the TGE itself. I expected to see handfuls of simple, probably crazy games all over the community but that doesn't seem to be the case. I think that the investment in time and effort to generate a 3D game is enormous as well as the fact that lots of people are proud and want to release something approaching commercial quality games (me included). In some ways, doing a simple 2D scroller or something similar which is far less complex, allows you to focus on the game itself and possibly be more creative.
Get addicted to creating gameplay, not graphics.
- Melv.
About the author
#2
Great work ! It's really cool to see torque2D in action ! Beeing on the same big project since 1year and a half and beeing at the end of the project, I wanted to relax a little doing 2D games for fun and to change the routine. I found a couple of nice 2D engine, but didn't do nothing finally because that was not it :) Looking at torque2D, I can now dream to do 2D games because THAT is what I was looking for in 2D.
If you release someting like this, I'm sure a lot of team will do side projects in 2D. For the fun of it, or maybe to do a couple of little games to get some funds for the main big project. If I get a hand on torque 2D, I'll do both : Fun and Funds :)
As for TSE, I seem to not be as excited as what all the others are saying(those that are talking). I'm a little deceive to see people say "TGE is dead" or similar things, and that GG seems to want to forget about updating TGE and concentrate on TSE. I feel I've just been "dumped" by GG :(. TGE is a really great engine where I can do photo-realistic games and that is exactly why I choose to use it 2 years ago. That's not what TSE looks like, nether halflife and Quake engine. They look more old console games in my eyes (cartoony graphic game types). But maybe that everything that as been done with shaders has been made like this and that it's also possible to do photo-realistic games with it also !? Don't get me wrong, I like to "see it"(TSE), but not making my games with it.
Viva TGE and torque2D ! ... and Viva Melv too ! :)
06/04/2004 (5:03 am)
Melv,Great work ! It's really cool to see torque2D in action ! Beeing on the same big project since 1year and a half and beeing at the end of the project, I wanted to relax a little doing 2D games for fun and to change the routine. I found a couple of nice 2D engine, but didn't do nothing finally because that was not it :) Looking at torque2D, I can now dream to do 2D games because THAT is what I was looking for in 2D.
If you release someting like this, I'm sure a lot of team will do side projects in 2D. For the fun of it, or maybe to do a couple of little games to get some funds for the main big project. If I get a hand on torque 2D, I'll do both : Fun and Funds :)
As for TSE, I seem to not be as excited as what all the others are saying(those that are talking). I'm a little deceive to see people say "TGE is dead" or similar things, and that GG seems to want to forget about updating TGE and concentrate on TSE. I feel I've just been "dumped" by GG :(. TGE is a really great engine where I can do photo-realistic games and that is exactly why I choose to use it 2 years ago. That's not what TSE looks like, nether halflife and Quake engine. They look more old console games in my eyes (cartoony graphic game types). But maybe that everything that as been done with shaders has been made like this and that it's also possible to do photo-realistic games with it also !? Don't get me wrong, I like to "see it"(TSE), but not making my games with it.
Viva TGE and torque2D ! ... and Viva Melv too ! :)
#3
06/04/2004 (5:04 am)
It's always interesting when people put pictures in their profiles. Yours is not what I expected a Melv to look like. :) 
#4
[quote]Jeff Tunnell
We want to keep the $100 price point, so TGE will be alive and well. We won
06/04/2004 (5:11 am)
@Gilles GG is not forgetting about TGE. [quote]Jeff Tunnell
We want to keep the $100 price point, so TGE will be alive and well. We won
#5
06/04/2004 (5:42 am)
Actually, I'll add my own comment about 2D. Its HELLA FUN! 
#6
06/04/2004 (6:49 am)
I'm really interested in the 2D Torque stuff - I've got one game that would be perfectly suited for it :-)
#7
I'm really hyped about this project. In only a few days I've come up with something that is really *useful*. Pretty soon I can start making games from it and those games will only require 2d graphics so I can do it all in photoshop not Milkshape, Max, Worldcraft (add external tool here).
A much easier development cycle and hopefully more focused on gameplay.
If this can be done in a few days, what could be done in a few months?
- Melv.
06/04/2004 (7:09 am)
Guys,I'm really hyped about this project. In only a few days I've come up with something that is really *useful*. Pretty soon I can start making games from it and those games will only require 2d graphics so I can do it all in photoshop not Milkshape, Max, Worldcraft (add external tool here).
A much easier development cycle and hopefully more focused on gameplay.
If this can be done in a few days, what could be done in a few months?
- Melv.
#8
But don't be deceived and think that putting together a 2D game is any less work. Sure, you might be able to get things moving around and animated a lot faster, but it still takes lots of sweat and tears to get something that's polished and professional. Still, the bar of entry is much lower than doing a 3D game and the art requirements aren't as strenuous. (I can usually go from a paper sketch to an ingame sprite in just an hour or two, versus the several DAYS of modeling, creating UVs, textures, etc.)
With that said, I am looking forward to your resource!
And I'll be sending you some art tonight or tomorrow.
06/04/2004 (9:35 am)
Me too. I'm a die-hard 2D guy. Though I do want to work on 3D -- some of my ideas just don't work too well in a 2D environment.But don't be deceived and think that putting together a 2D game is any less work. Sure, you might be able to get things moving around and animated a lot faster, but it still takes lots of sweat and tears to get something that's polished and professional. Still, the bar of entry is much lower than doing a 3D game and the art requirements aren't as strenuous. (I can usually go from a paper sketch to an ingame sprite in just an hour or two, versus the several DAYS of modeling, creating UVs, textures, etc.)
With that said, I am looking forward to your resource!
And I'll be sending you some art tonight or tomorrow.
#9
Yes, definately. The polish, bells and whistles takes time but my experience is that you get to that stage *much* quicker as the tools are much simpler and the complexity lower. I believe there are lots of talented people in the community who are stuck between worlds, the 2D which they could easily understand (even without much math/game experience) and the 3D world which, assuming existing components don't meet their needs, requires many more strong skills.
Thanks for the generous offer of the art, I'll definately use it in a demo. :)
- Melv.
06/05/2004 (2:04 am)
David,Yes, definately. The polish, bells and whistles takes time but my experience is that you get to that stage *much* quicker as the tools are much simpler and the complexity lower. I believe there are lots of talented people in the community who are stuck between worlds, the 2D which they could easily understand (even without much math/game experience) and the 3D world which, assuming existing components don't meet their needs, requires many more strong skills.
Thanks for the generous offer of the art, I'll definately use it in a demo. :)
- Melv.
#10
Melv and David, you're right when saying that we are lost between 2 worlds. Personnally, with the 2D engine I have tried so far, I find it more difficult to do a game 2D (that look good) then 3D. Working with 64 X 64 bitmap, or 128 X 128 bitmap is really hard to keep the model looking good (I still do the model in a modeller, maybe it's a bad approch). I need to experiment more on doing good looking little bitmap for 2D games :). Torque2D is really interesting and motivating to learn that proccess because we already know torque really well, so we won't have to learn another engine, and we still have a "3D feeling" with it. This will make a really powerfull 2D engine. And Melv codes are always really "clean and easy" to follow so this will be fun ! Keep us updated Melv.
06/07/2004 (6:05 am)
Michael, yup, I've read more on it and played more with the TSE demo and I like TSE much now. I think that because we are finishing a big and long project, I did panic a little with the TSE release :) Sorry !Melv and David, you're right when saying that we are lost between 2 worlds. Personnally, with the 2D engine I have tried so far, I find it more difficult to do a game 2D (that look good) then 3D. Working with 64 X 64 bitmap, or 128 X 128 bitmap is really hard to keep the model looking good (I still do the model in a modeller, maybe it's a bad approch). I need to experiment more on doing good looking little bitmap for 2D games :). Torque2D is really interesting and motivating to learn that proccess because we already know torque really well, so we won't have to learn another engine, and we still have a "3D feeling" with it. This will make a really powerfull 2D engine. And Melv codes are always really "clean and easy" to follow so this will be fun ! Keep us updated Melv.
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