Fancy access to the Unreal 4 Source Code for cheap ?
by Jimmy R Armes · 03/19/2014 (2:15 pm) · 44 comments
As of today you can, as an indie developer gain full, (yes I said FULL), access to the Source code to their Unreal 4 engine including their tools. What is the cost you might ask, why a mere 19 smakaroos a month plus 5 percent of your shipped game.
Why would I post this here on Garagegames? Simple the smarter developers will see this a massive boon to their knowledge of game engine development as they can pay to access their source code and study a real triple A game engine and start to incorporate that back into the development and MAJOR refactoring of the Torque 3D engine.
So what similar features could this bring to Torque 3d under the right group of developers ? Lets see what Unreal offers with their features.
What features are included with Unreal Engine 4?
Unreal Engine 4 gives you all the features you need to make just about any game you can dream up! When you get UE4, you have all the rendering horsepower to make a cinematic experience like the Infiltrator demo, and you can also build really simple games like side-scrolling platformers and match-three apps. That call is totally yours to make.
UE4 has many integrated systems, tools and features. There are too many to list!
Here's the abridged version: UE4's DirectX11 rendering features include full-scene HDR reflections, thousands of dynamic lights per scene, artist-programmable tessellation and displacement, temporal anti-aliasing (TXAA) and IES lighting profiles, just for starters.
The new UE4 material pipeline makes use of physically-based shading to give you unprecedented control over the look and feel of characters and objects. Layer materials and fine-tune values at the pixel level to achieve any desired aesthetic.
UE4's robust Cascade visual effects pipeline provides fast, low-cost GPU particle simulation and a collision system that interacts with the depth buffer. Millions of dynamic particles can receive and emit light within a scene, and you can control many particle properties, including size, color, density, falloff and bounciness. You can also use Cascade to create fire, sparks, smoke, dust, rubble and anything else that can be powered by particles.
Blueprint visual scripting is incredibly empowering! Blueprints enable anyone to rapidly prototype and build playable content without touching a line of code. Use Blueprints to author level, object and gameplay behaviors, modify user interface, adjust input controls and so much more.
Built-in Blueprint debugging enables you to interactively visualize the flow of gameplay and inspect property values while testing your game. You can even freeze the game and inspect its state by setting breakpoints on individual nodes in your Blueprint graphs.
UE4 Code View saves time by allowing you to browse C++ functions directly on game characters and objects and then jump straight to source code lines in Visual Studio to make changes.
Make updates to gameplay code while the game is running with Hot Reload. This tool allows you to edit C++ code and see those changes reflected immediately in-game without ever pausing gameplay. Examine your creations from every angle through Play, Simulate and Immersive modes within the Unreal Editor.
Use the Content Browser to import, organize, search, tag, filter and modify terabytes of game assets within the Unreal Editor. The Content Browser features real-time, animated thumbnail previews which can be explored and modified on the fly. Here you can also create any type of asset collection to be used for individual work or shared with hundreds of other developers.
Use the Persona animation toolset to edit skeletons, skeletal meshes and sockets, animation Blueprints and more. Preview animation sequences and morph targets, and set up animation blend spaces and montages.
Modify physics and collision properties for skeletal mesh actors with the Physics Asset editing tool (PhAT).
The Matinee cinematic toolset provides director-level control over cut scenes, dynamic gameplay sequences and movies.
The Landscape system provides advanced sculpting and painting tools so you can quickly create and customize large, open worlds. Landscape paves the way for terrains that are orders of magnitude larger than what have been previously possible thanks to its powerful LOD system and efficient memory use. Quickly and easily create outdoor worlds allow for any type of game! Dip into the foliage editor to apply trees, grass, snow, sand and other terrain elements.
Give AI-controlled characters increased spatial awareness of the world around them and enable them to make smarter movements with UE4's gameplay framework and artificial intelligence system. Dynamic navigation mesh updates in real time as you move objects for optimal pathing at all times.
Define your game's audio pipeline using the Sound Cue Editor.
And, as mentioned before, when you sign up for UE4 subscription, you get full C++ source code access through GitHub! If you require custom license terms, you also have the option of source control via Perforce and SVN. Each solution enable teams to easily coordinate their game development and design efforts, and efficiently manage version control.
Now let me reiterate, access to the full Unreal 4 source code to STUDY and LEARN from and develop SIMILAR systems and tools for Torque 3D.
Why would I post this here on Garagegames? Simple the smarter developers will see this a massive boon to their knowledge of game engine development as they can pay to access their source code and study a real triple A game engine and start to incorporate that back into the development and MAJOR refactoring of the Torque 3D engine.
So what similar features could this bring to Torque 3d under the right group of developers ? Lets see what Unreal offers with their features.
What features are included with Unreal Engine 4?
Unreal Engine 4 gives you all the features you need to make just about any game you can dream up! When you get UE4, you have all the rendering horsepower to make a cinematic experience like the Infiltrator demo, and you can also build really simple games like side-scrolling platformers and match-three apps. That call is totally yours to make.
UE4 has many integrated systems, tools and features. There are too many to list!
Here's the abridged version: UE4's DirectX11 rendering features include full-scene HDR reflections, thousands of dynamic lights per scene, artist-programmable tessellation and displacement, temporal anti-aliasing (TXAA) and IES lighting profiles, just for starters.
The new UE4 material pipeline makes use of physically-based shading to give you unprecedented control over the look and feel of characters and objects. Layer materials and fine-tune values at the pixel level to achieve any desired aesthetic.
UE4's robust Cascade visual effects pipeline provides fast, low-cost GPU particle simulation and a collision system that interacts with the depth buffer. Millions of dynamic particles can receive and emit light within a scene, and you can control many particle properties, including size, color, density, falloff and bounciness. You can also use Cascade to create fire, sparks, smoke, dust, rubble and anything else that can be powered by particles.
Blueprint visual scripting is incredibly empowering! Blueprints enable anyone to rapidly prototype and build playable content without touching a line of code. Use Blueprints to author level, object and gameplay behaviors, modify user interface, adjust input controls and so much more.
Built-in Blueprint debugging enables you to interactively visualize the flow of gameplay and inspect property values while testing your game. You can even freeze the game and inspect its state by setting breakpoints on individual nodes in your Blueprint graphs.
UE4 Code View saves time by allowing you to browse C++ functions directly on game characters and objects and then jump straight to source code lines in Visual Studio to make changes.
Make updates to gameplay code while the game is running with Hot Reload. This tool allows you to edit C++ code and see those changes reflected immediately in-game without ever pausing gameplay. Examine your creations from every angle through Play, Simulate and Immersive modes within the Unreal Editor.
Use the Content Browser to import, organize, search, tag, filter and modify terabytes of game assets within the Unreal Editor. The Content Browser features real-time, animated thumbnail previews which can be explored and modified on the fly. Here you can also create any type of asset collection to be used for individual work or shared with hundreds of other developers.
Use the Persona animation toolset to edit skeletons, skeletal meshes and sockets, animation Blueprints and more. Preview animation sequences and morph targets, and set up animation blend spaces and montages.
Modify physics and collision properties for skeletal mesh actors with the Physics Asset editing tool (PhAT).
The Matinee cinematic toolset provides director-level control over cut scenes, dynamic gameplay sequences and movies.
The Landscape system provides advanced sculpting and painting tools so you can quickly create and customize large, open worlds. Landscape paves the way for terrains that are orders of magnitude larger than what have been previously possible thanks to its powerful LOD system and efficient memory use. Quickly and easily create outdoor worlds allow for any type of game! Dip into the foliage editor to apply trees, grass, snow, sand and other terrain elements.
Give AI-controlled characters increased spatial awareness of the world around them and enable them to make smarter movements with UE4's gameplay framework and artificial intelligence system. Dynamic navigation mesh updates in real time as you move objects for optimal pathing at all times.
Define your game's audio pipeline using the Sound Cue Editor.
And, as mentioned before, when you sign up for UE4 subscription, you get full C++ source code access through GitHub! If you require custom license terms, you also have the option of source control via Perforce and SVN. Each solution enable teams to easily coordinate their game development and design efforts, and efficiently manage version control.
Now let me reiterate, access to the full Unreal 4 source code to STUDY and LEARN from and develop SIMILAR systems and tools for Torque 3D.
#22
By commercial quality I didn't mean AAA quality, more indie commercial I guess. i.e. Unity 3D. I guess there is also C4, but it seemed more like a toy to me.
I agree with the spaghetti code comment. I probably wouldn't use T3D again unless a complete rewrite of the core was done, preferably taking advantage of C++11 features. I fought the good fight for many years, but everybody on the core team always seems content to just add to the spaghetti. There was the beginnings of a rewrite at one point a few years back which I got to take a peek at, and it was much better, but not sure what happened to that; did it not carry over when the company changed owners, or just abandoned I wonder?
03/20/2014 (4:37 pm)
So it appears you are correct and there is no more UnrealScript. I did not realize that, haven't really stayed up to date. Blueprints does look pretty amazing, though.By commercial quality I didn't mean AAA quality, more indie commercial I guess. i.e. Unity 3D. I guess there is also C4, but it seemed more like a toy to me.
I agree with the spaghetti code comment. I probably wouldn't use T3D again unless a complete rewrite of the core was done, preferably taking advantage of C++11 features. I fought the good fight for many years, but everybody on the core team always seems content to just add to the spaghetti. There was the beginnings of a rewrite at one point a few years back which I got to take a peek at, and it was much better, but not sure what happened to that; did it not carry over when the company changed owners, or just abandoned I wonder?
#23
There's some talk about looking, learning, and bringing to Torque3D. People need to be really careful about how they do this and how they say they are going to do it.
You definitely do not want the Torque3D MIT source tree contaminated with non-MIT compatible code. It may go unnoticed for quite some time until all of a sudden Epic goes WTF and the offending pieces can't be taken out without breaking pieces that became dependant on them...
So make sure that if you tell people they can take a look to see how UE4 is doing things, to also point out that it's very very bad to just copy someone else's non-compatible code.
Also, keep in mind that some of the techniques in their code may be patented - which is hard to identify sometimes.
What it comes down to is this -> anything you gleened from something like UE4 make sure you run it pass the community first. If, in two years, Epic finds their stuff (code or patented technique) inside Torque3D and removing it causes the rollback of a year or two of dependencies, you may very well kill Torque3D - at least to the people that will just give up at that point.
Public Service Announcement :-)
03/20/2014 (4:39 pm)
Hey folks, I wanted to bring something up before the discussion loses traction.. There's some talk about looking, learning, and bringing to Torque3D. People need to be really careful about how they do this and how they say they are going to do it.
You definitely do not want the Torque3D MIT source tree contaminated with non-MIT compatible code. It may go unnoticed for quite some time until all of a sudden Epic goes WTF and the offending pieces can't be taken out without breaking pieces that became dependant on them...
So make sure that if you tell people they can take a look to see how UE4 is doing things, to also point out that it's very very bad to just copy someone else's non-compatible code.
Also, keep in mind that some of the techniques in their code may be patented - which is hard to identify sometimes.
What it comes down to is this -> anything you gleened from something like UE4 make sure you run it pass the community first. If, in two years, Epic finds their stuff (code or patented technique) inside Torque3D and removing it causes the rollback of a year or two of dependencies, you may very well kill Torque3D - at least to the people that will just give up at that point.
Public Service Announcement :-)
#24
That hasn't changed, we just need to be careful about it.
That said, of what I've read of the license, if you want to use UE4 code in your personal project, that's OK, you'll just pay the royalty.
It's just that that won't be happening for Torque 3D's core version. That'll stay all it's own.
03/20/2014 (4:50 pm)
As always, additions to the engine's core need to make sure they don't step on any licenses.That hasn't changed, we just need to be careful about it.
That said, of what I've read of the license, if you want to use UE4 code in your personal project, that's OK, you'll just pay the royalty.
It's just that that won't be happening for Torque 3D's core version. That'll stay all it's own.
#25
If a developer can't figure out what problems a piece of code was written and how it solves the problem then that developer has to steal someone's code wholesale is a piss poor developer.
On the other hand if a developer understand the code and know how it solves the problem, any developer worth their salt will be able to write a piece of code that does the same damn thing with out using a single line of someone else's code.
Every next gen engine is based on another engine from another company. That is how a company that has used several engines to ship games develop their own in house engines. Ubisoft, Bethedsda, DICE, just to name a few.
They learned from their licensed engines then applied to their own engines.
@Jeff
Who said anything about using UE4 code in Torque ? If someone has to rip Epic or Crytek source code for their own personal project to use in Torque instead of learning how it works and writing their own implantation of it is a piss poor developer.
@Gerald
Then you haven't been keeping up with Unity either. They will be releasing 5.0 soon with PBR, physical correct shading, new animation tools a slew of other enhancements. They have surpassed Torque about 4 years ago in features and continue to do so.
03/20/2014 (5:56 pm)
@kevinIf a developer can't figure out what problems a piece of code was written and how it solves the problem then that developer has to steal someone's code wholesale is a piss poor developer.
On the other hand if a developer understand the code and know how it solves the problem, any developer worth their salt will be able to write a piece of code that does the same damn thing with out using a single line of someone else's code.
Every next gen engine is based on another engine from another company. That is how a company that has used several engines to ship games develop their own in house engines. Ubisoft, Bethedsda, DICE, just to name a few.
They learned from their licensed engines then applied to their own engines.
@Jeff
Who said anything about using UE4 code in Torque ? If someone has to rip Epic or Crytek source code for their own personal project to use in Torque instead of learning how it works and writing their own implantation of it is a piss poor developer.
@Gerald
Then you haven't been keeping up with Unity either. They will be releasing 5.0 soon with PBR, physical correct shading, new animation tools a slew of other enhancements. They have surpassed Torque about 4 years ago in features and continue to do so.
#26
Not to once again start the engine debate but...this line;
'And the current iteration of Torque is where games engines were around 10 to 15 years ago if you want to compare it's commercial quality. '
I have to TOTALLY disagree. In 2003/04 you had Morrowind and the first FarCry (CryEngine) titles but REALLY? I do not claim to be a GREAT artist but, even my 'basic crap' out does that stuff. I would place T3D at 2008 to 2010 as far as visual tech goes.
Sorry brother, could not let that slide. No conflict intended.
03/20/2014 (6:21 pm)
Jimmy, Not to once again start the engine debate but...this line;
'And the current iteration of Torque is where games engines were around 10 to 15 years ago if you want to compare it's commercial quality. '
I have to TOTALLY disagree. In 2003/04 you had Morrowind and the first FarCry (CryEngine) titles but REALLY? I do not claim to be a GREAT artist but, even my 'basic crap' out does that stuff. I would place T3D at 2008 to 2010 as far as visual tech goes.
Sorry brother, could not let that slide. No conflict intended.
#27
yeah, I agree with your description, but identifying or defining what a piss poor developer is doesn't make them less common or even stop them from doing it/realizing it. Explaining to them something that they need to watch out for, sensibly, may have that desired effect, at least in this community.
Piss poor developers are more than welcome to contribute - just make sure that they go through the community first in order to catch anything they may have missed themselves such as bugs, legal issues, efficiency/correctness.. That way others will probably even be able to take those contributions and improve upon them before merging them into the core.
Licensing/IP issues do tend to be quite common because of so many developers lifting code, not just in open source but in industry as well.
It's nothing new, but still needed to be reiterated with relation to the original post.
There's a reason quite a few open source white box implementation teams avoid people that have worked on or seen proprietary source versions of what they are trying to implement. The possibility of copying (intentionally or not) and risk of legal liability tend to outweigh much of the benefit.
It's not restricted to proprietary code either as GPL code would also contaminate the project if not caught early on.
03/20/2014 (6:29 pm)
@Jimmyyeah, I agree with your description, but identifying or defining what a piss poor developer is doesn't make them less common or even stop them from doing it/realizing it. Explaining to them something that they need to watch out for, sensibly, may have that desired effect, at least in this community.
Piss poor developers are more than welcome to contribute - just make sure that they go through the community first in order to catch anything they may have missed themselves such as bugs, legal issues, efficiency/correctness.. That way others will probably even be able to take those contributions and improve upon them before merging them into the core.
Licensing/IP issues do tend to be quite common because of so many developers lifting code, not just in open source but in industry as well.
It's nothing new, but still needed to be reiterated with relation to the original post.
There's a reason quite a few open source white box implementation teams avoid people that have worked on or seen proprietary source versions of what they are trying to implement. The possibility of copying (intentionally or not) and risk of legal liability tend to outweigh much of the benefit.
It's not restricted to proprietary code either as GPL code would also contaminate the project if not caught early on.
#28
03/20/2014 (6:35 pm)
Don't think ANYONE here is talking about 'lifting code'. I know nobody here has said that. I believe Jimmy, and myself included are talking about seeing how things are done in more 'modern engines'. I read books and I read articles. Hell, I even lifted concepts from freaking public 'white papers' and applied them to T3D. Its not about taking code, but, seeing how these other engines do what they do and adapting those concepts to work in T3D. Trust me, we all stand on the shoulders of giants when it comes to game dev and game engine development. Seriously, have a look at a more than a few HLSL files in T3D, you will be suprised how many are based on CryEngine 2 tech... they even commented that it was.
#29
No conflict, let me clear up what I was trying to say. I was comming from a feature stand point not a visual stand point. I have seen your work before and I agree that in the right hands visually Torque can look good.
The overall design of the engine and the string and hundred mile and hour tape that is holding it all together is very similar to how engines were designed from 10 to 15 years ago. There has not been any real engine evolution with in the code base. That much is evident in the code base.
@Kevin
I agree with what you are saying. But I disagree with the white boxing statement. Their are several developers that have worked or still working for companies were they are writing open source projects based on their companies drivers. Adreno is one that come to mind. And no it's not sanctioned by Qualcom.
Don't even get me started on the GPL license.
03/20/2014 (6:52 pm)
@ Ron No conflict, let me clear up what I was trying to say. I was comming from a feature stand point not a visual stand point. I have seen your work before and I agree that in the right hands visually Torque can look good.
The overall design of the engine and the string and hundred mile and hour tape that is holding it all together is very similar to how engines were designed from 10 to 15 years ago. There has not been any real engine evolution with in the code base. That much is evident in the code base.
@Kevin
I agree with what you are saying. But I disagree with the white boxing statement. Their are several developers that have worked or still working for companies were they are writing open source projects based on their companies drivers. Adreno is one that come to mind. And no it's not sanctioned by Qualcom.
Don't even get me started on the GPL license.
#30
yeah not all are the same, but in many of those cases their employer is aware of that situation.
If you look at much of the history of open source projects trying to reproduce features from companies such as Microsoft (until more recently), many of them had FAQs specifically answering the question of 'I have inside knowledge/have worked on X, can I contribute' where they essentially said thank you, but absolutely not. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, on many projects that was just the way it was.
With Qualcom you come into patenting issues too, so yeah maybe they just don't care or don't think it's worth it - definitely interesting, though. If I were leading the project and there was any concern about that then yeah I'd avoid it.
On the GPL heh.. I think we probably share the same feelings on that.. I dunno how many times I've come across developers that don't realize you can't just plop any piece of open source code into a project (proprietary or GPL incompatible) even though it's free - code that was meant to be lifted (not a piss poor developer thing). The licenses really need to be compatible.
03/20/2014 (7:15 pm)
@Jimmyyeah not all are the same, but in many of those cases their employer is aware of that situation.
If you look at much of the history of open source projects trying to reproduce features from companies such as Microsoft (until more recently), many of them had FAQs specifically answering the question of 'I have inside knowledge/have worked on X, can I contribute' where they essentially said thank you, but absolutely not. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, on many projects that was just the way it was.
With Qualcom you come into patenting issues too, so yeah maybe they just don't care or don't think it's worth it - definitely interesting, though. If I were leading the project and there was any concern about that then yeah I'd avoid it.
On the GPL heh.. I think we probably share the same feelings on that.. I dunno how many times I've come across developers that don't realize you can't just plop any piece of open source code into a project (proprietary or GPL incompatible) even though it's free - code that was meant to be lifted (not a piss poor developer thing). The licenses really need to be compatible.
#31
There's never harm in reminding people and clarifying something like that. If it wasn't a common mishap then there would be no need. Unfortunately it's quite common.
ex: PSA - Remember that even though you have access to the full source code of a AAA engine like UE4, you should use it to study and not copy bits of it into the Torque3D repo. Feel free to consult the community about possible features it has that you would like to implement if you are unsure.
Not everyone has the same experience - not everyone knows better. I just choose to assume that they don't. In other words, I'm not telling Ron or Jimmy, specifically, that they should not lift code. I am offering a friendly reminder for John Doe anxious new developer/contributor that has ideas about improving Torque3D suing Unreal Engine 4.
The source being open will definitely be a good learning experience for many people, though.
Even in the history of these forums there have been instances of people unintentionally posting code when they weren't supposed to (back during the public/private forum days), or issues over licensing and code regarding things such as mydreamrpg and mmorpgkit. It happens. Even the big guys - like google and sun.
A game example that even the lawyers didn't know the answer to comes from wikipedia concerning id tech open source:
On November 16, 2011, Carmack announced on Twitter that he's writing new code for Doom 3's open source release, because "lawyers are still skittish about the patent issue around 'Carmack's reverse'". This refers to an implementation of stencil buffered shadow volume algorithms.
They did that to protect one of their patents and to protect the end user from inadvertently using it from the GPL (which didnt protect from patents) source code. Who knows if Epic has done the same.
tldr; exercise caution
anyway.. enough about that I think :-)
good post, and thanks for bringing it here.
03/20/2014 (7:28 pm)
I don't think anyone is accusing anyone of anything - at least not me. I just thought it would be a good time to clarify. If one person reads it ambiguously then I'm sure others would, too.There's never harm in reminding people and clarifying something like that. If it wasn't a common mishap then there would be no need. Unfortunately it's quite common.
ex: PSA - Remember that even though you have access to the full source code of a AAA engine like UE4, you should use it to study and not copy bits of it into the Torque3D repo. Feel free to consult the community about possible features it has that you would like to implement if you are unsure.
Not everyone has the same experience - not everyone knows better. I just choose to assume that they don't. In other words, I'm not telling Ron or Jimmy, specifically, that they should not lift code. I am offering a friendly reminder for John Doe anxious new developer/contributor that has ideas about improving Torque3D suing Unreal Engine 4.
The source being open will definitely be a good learning experience for many people, though.
Even in the history of these forums there have been instances of people unintentionally posting code when they weren't supposed to (back during the public/private forum days), or issues over licensing and code regarding things such as mydreamrpg and mmorpgkit. It happens. Even the big guys - like google and sun.
A game example that even the lawyers didn't know the answer to comes from wikipedia concerning id tech open source:
On November 16, 2011, Carmack announced on Twitter that he's writing new code for Doom 3's open source release, because "lawyers are still skittish about the patent issue around 'Carmack's reverse'". This refers to an implementation of stencil buffered shadow volume algorithms.
They did that to protect one of their patents and to protect the end user from inadvertently using it from the GPL (which didnt protect from patents) source code. Who knows if Epic has done the same.
tldr; exercise caution
anyway.. enough about that I think :-)
good post, and thanks for bringing it here.
#32
I did manage to find a similar practice from Red Hat, which is the second-to-last paragraph in their best practices:
http://www.redhat.com/advice/best_practice_legal.html
"A second level of care..."
Those last two paragraphs pretty much sum up my recommendation..with the Torque Community(tm) being the go-to.
I hope that helps.
03/20/2014 (7:40 pm)
I meant for that to be my last post.. couldn't remember which projects I had come across the contamination clause I mentioned earlier and it was bugging me..I did manage to find a similar practice from Red Hat, which is the second-to-last paragraph in their best practices:
http://www.redhat.com/advice/best_practice_legal.html
"A second level of care..."
Those last two paragraphs pretty much sum up my recommendation..with the Torque Community(tm) being the go-to.
I hope that helps.
#33
Nope, you are TOTALLY correct. We can probably NOT say it enough (This is all about IDEAS, not 'lift and add') and I am really feeling for the MIT committee with this announcement because a HUGE task just landed in their lap. They will have to be VERY diligent when vetting code submissions to GIT for T3D. All it will take to kill this project is one allegation of theft and T3D... heck even T2D, would be locked up forever in a legal battle.
@Jimmy,
I get where you are coming from but, even the tools (hodge-podge that they are) are really NOT that out of date. There are issues in what controls are exposed and HOW they are exposed but over all, the tools that are there are good. However, I know what you mean. Heck, I even REMOVED (IMHO) the silly Ground Cover tool because I handle that via, mesh painting (like CryEngine). Frees up some resources and honestly I have not missed it at all. So yeah, there are a number of things that can be improved.
03/21/2014 (5:22 pm)
Kevin, Nope, you are TOTALLY correct. We can probably NOT say it enough (This is all about IDEAS, not 'lift and add') and I am really feeling for the MIT committee with this announcement because a HUGE task just landed in their lap. They will have to be VERY diligent when vetting code submissions to GIT for T3D. All it will take to kill this project is one allegation of theft and T3D... heck even T2D, would be locked up forever in a legal battle.
@Jimmy,
I get where you are coming from but, even the tools (hodge-podge that they are) are really NOT that out of date. There are issues in what controls are exposed and HOW they are exposed but over all, the tools that are there are good. However, I know what you mean. Heck, I even REMOVED (IMHO) the silly Ground Cover tool because I handle that via, mesh painting (like CryEngine). Frees up some resources and honestly I have not missed it at all. So yeah, there are a number of things that can be improved.
#34
03/22/2014 (7:19 am)
After my initial reaction that this is the final nail in T3Ds coffin, not so certain after asking a few questions and getting the answers. Not at all convinced that this will work for Epic. Will Epic and UE4 still be here in a year or two, I don't think anyone can assume either way. 
#35
03/22/2014 (8:16 am)
@JED - Keep in mind this change of plans does not cover a console license or code. Then, remember that they charge anywhere between $200 - $500K for the full engine, support, and a license for a single game release on console. Epic will be fine, trust me.
#36
03/22/2014 (8:49 am)
@Michael - could be. Let's hope so, I don't like to see any company where people have worked so hard go under. My point was that this news should not make one immediately reassess what one is doing with regards to Omni say. Maybe wait and see for a bit. BTW I forgot to mention that I am aware they have the backing of Tencent Holdings Limited a Chinese company registered out of the Cayman islands, that possibly this realignment is due to that, so I know Tencent has money, it certainly has 48% of the shares of Epic and their last financial reports are pretty healthy. So on the surface, yes Epic is safe. But we've seen this scenario before. The problem is that this only works if the subscriptions come in and the console code sales as well. The presence of Tencent does explain the pricing of the subscription. Could be it is thought the money from the Chinese market alone will make it viable. Most of these companies are all ROI. Tencent obviously saw an opportunity where they could make a killing and logically they thought go for the best, for a top product, do it cheap, back it to the hilt and the market will be captured. It's still not clear to me the outcome will be what they expect or hope for. Possibly they should have read Tzun Tzu, he was Chinese after all.
#37
03/24/2014 (1:51 pm)
CryEngine probably won't come with the engine source, so comparing that to T3D or Unreal Engine 4 isn't fair.
#38
Has anyone here signed up? I honestly don't have any intention of switching over but for a mere 20 bucks it's worth getting a copy of the source for learning purposes. It's like buying a big book lol
03/26/2014 (1:28 am)
Hmm very interesting!Has anyone here signed up? I honestly don't have any intention of switching over but for a mere 20 bucks it's worth getting a copy of the source for learning purposes. It's like buying a big book lol
#39
I like T3D's editors by far more than the UE4.. T3D's editors are simpler and more minimalistic.
The graphics are nice, but it seems like it takes work to downgrade the graphics so it performs better, rather than having to upgrade them in T3D, which feels odd.. (I.e. T3D runs better on lower-end hardware out-of-the-box)
It took me 10 seconds to find a collision bug, that allowed me to fly using the walls.. I kindda expected stuff like that to work better in UE4.
That said I haven't looked at the source and don't whether there is anything to gain there..
One thing that UE4 does better is definetly the soft shadows, T3D's soft shadows looks sort of different depending the cameras world-coordinates where UE4's soft shadows are more static and more calm looking at.
Also generally the different shaders etc in UE4 seems more polished, and looks better.
Thats my 5-cent.
03/26/2014 (3:37 am)
@Timmy I've signed up and tbh I was not really impressed. This is my 1-hour first impression:I like T3D's editors by far more than the UE4.. T3D's editors are simpler and more minimalistic.
The graphics are nice, but it seems like it takes work to downgrade the graphics so it performs better, rather than having to upgrade them in T3D, which feels odd.. (I.e. T3D runs better on lower-end hardware out-of-the-box)
It took me 10 seconds to find a collision bug, that allowed me to fly using the walls.. I kindda expected stuff like that to work better in UE4.
That said I haven't looked at the source and don't whether there is anything to gain there..
One thing that UE4 does better is definetly the soft shadows, T3D's soft shadows looks sort of different depending the cameras world-coordinates where UE4's soft shadows are more static and more calm looking at.
Also generally the different shaders etc in UE4 seems more polished, and looks better.
Thats my 5-cent.
#40
@Lukas
could you tell me how to repeat this error? I mean I am sitting here with the engine now and I am not able to fly using the walls. I bump into them and nothing else(collision seems to work for me so far). I ask because all errors and bugs will count when I have to decide using this engine or not.
Also I am sitting with a:
I have also tested it on an Alienware laptop m17x r2 system:
The laptop will be a little weaker in performance than the desktop but both these systems are working fine. What system are you using?
03/26/2014 (11:22 am)
Quote:
It took me 10 seconds to find a collision bug, that allowed me to fly using the walls.. I kindda expected stuff like that to work better in UE4.
@Lukas
could you tell me how to repeat this error? I mean I am sitting here with the engine now and I am not able to fly using the walls. I bump into them and nothing else(collision seems to work for me so far). I ask because all errors and bugs will count when I have to decide using this engine or not.
Also I am sitting with a:
Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30 GHz 8 Gigs of ram SAPPHIRE HD 6790, 1024 MB Size, 256 -bit GDDR5
I have also tested it on an Alienware laptop m17x r2 system:
Intel Core i7-620M Processor 8 gigs of ram ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5870
The laptop will be a little weaker in performance than the desktop but both these systems are working fine. What system are you using?
Jimmy R Armes
I agree that it is unusual for 2 major engine vendors to both price access to their tech way below what Unity is currently offering.
But that is not what is really interesting, them opening up their tech for anyone is the most interesting and a great opportunity for indie engine developers to have access to professional techniques from a professional game engine. Even open source developers will be using this opportunity to develop similar systems for their engine.
And I think that Torque community should should take this opportunity and greatly enhance the engine.
But if the community wish to continue to use old outdated tech that is hard to extend, that is poorly written, and spaghetti coded. Then I give up on this community as a whole.
@Gerald
Unreal Script has been removed from UE4. And the current iteration of Torque is where games engines were around 10 to 15 years ago if you want to compare it's commercial quality.