Announcing: Talon, a 6DoF arena shooter made with TGE
by Scott Richards · 08/14/2013 (2:33 am) · 26 comments
I want to share something I've been working on. About ten years ago, I got it into my head that I could make a game, but not just any game, and not a simple game. You see, I used to be obsessed with an esoteric game called Descent. I loved that game, I built maps for it, I made mods, and I played religiously for years. Descent defined a little-know genre called 6DoF or "vertigo shooter", distinguished by its unrestrained freedom of movement. Long story short, I became addicted to that type of gameplay, but the genre never caught on. After I stopped playing Descent, I looked for other games to replace it, but nothing else compared, nothing felt the same, nothing satisfied what I was looking for. So I, in my youthful wisdom, decided that I would make a multiplayer 6DoF sci-fi flight combat game. How hard could it be?
Very hard, actually. This would have been a worryingly ambitious first project for any team; but I didn't have a team, nor did I have any money, nor investors, nor experience. What I did have was a modicum of skill and plenty of ambition. So I decided that since I could program and make maps, that I would go ahead and make the game I wanted, by myself, with no budget. Yep, I was a naive young fool. Anyone with any experience, or any sense, would see this endeavor as hopelessly over-reaching. Fortunately, I had neither, and was not deterred.
So I set about building the game that I wanted to play. Unsurprisingly, it was a struggle. It took the better part of ten years, countless hours of hard work, and the suffering of many demoralizing setbacks; but, in the end, I succeeded. I have a game, and it looks and plays pretty much as I imagined. Score one for determination and perseverance.
And so, it gives me great pleasure to present to you now, the fruits of my labor, the results of all my hard work, my game, based on a heavily modified TGE 1.3, a multiplayer sci-fi flight combat game called Talon.
It's not quite ready for release, but it's really close, and I'm really excited.
There's a lot I'd like to say about this project. I've had many challenges over the years, many specifically related to Torque, and I wish I had been able to talk about them as I encountered them; but at any given moment, when the choice was between talking about the problem I was having, or fixing the problem I was having.. I chose the later. I don't regret that, but I hope I'll find time to talk about some of that in the coming weeks. Of course I'll happily try to answer any questions anyone has.
In the meantime, I've put together a rather comprehensive website about the game itself; which you may view at www.talongame.com if you're so inclined.
Very hard, actually. This would have been a worryingly ambitious first project for any team; but I didn't have a team, nor did I have any money, nor investors, nor experience. What I did have was a modicum of skill and plenty of ambition. So I decided that since I could program and make maps, that I would go ahead and make the game I wanted, by myself, with no budget. Yep, I was a naive young fool. Anyone with any experience, or any sense, would see this endeavor as hopelessly over-reaching. Fortunately, I had neither, and was not deterred.
So I set about building the game that I wanted to play. Unsurprisingly, it was a struggle. It took the better part of ten years, countless hours of hard work, and the suffering of many demoralizing setbacks; but, in the end, I succeeded. I have a game, and it looks and plays pretty much as I imagined. Score one for determination and perseverance.
And so, it gives me great pleasure to present to you now, the fruits of my labor, the results of all my hard work, my game, based on a heavily modified TGE 1.3, a multiplayer sci-fi flight combat game called Talon.
It's not quite ready for release, but it's really close, and I'm really excited.
There's a lot I'd like to say about this project. I've had many challenges over the years, many specifically related to Torque, and I wish I had been able to talk about them as I encountered them; but at any given moment, when the choice was between talking about the problem I was having, or fixing the problem I was having.. I chose the later. I don't regret that, but I hope I'll find time to talk about some of that in the coming weeks. Of course I'll happily try to answer any questions anyone has.
In the meantime, I've put together a rather comprehensive website about the game itself; which you may view at www.talongame.com if you're so inclined.
About the author
I am an artist, a programmer, and a rogue developer, subbornly chasing a dream, trying to make the game I want to play.
Recent Blogs
#2
08/14/2013 (3:45 am)
Very nice. Not played a good 6DoF shooter since the days of the Descent series, so really looking forward to trying this little beauty out. 
#3
08/14/2013 (3:58 am)
This reminds me of my terminal velocity days. I love 3d space shooters. There so much control in your flyers too! I likes. 
#4
08/14/2013 (5:41 am)
That is absolutely excellent. I hope you'll be charging money for this somewhere soon. I'll buy it. I'll be terrible at it, but I'll buy it. You've done a fantastic job with TGE, definitely nearing AAA standards. I'm very, very impressed. 
#5
Anyone remember when TGE1.3 came out? Must have been before I was around here way back in 2007. Nice to see what can still be done with older tech.
08/14/2013 (5:50 am)
That's great! I used love Descent and then Freespace.Quote:
based on a heavily modified TGE 1.3
Anyone remember when TGE1.3 came out? Must have been before I was around here way back in 2007. Nice to see what can still be done with older tech.
#6
08/14/2013 (6:02 am)
Quote:Anyone remember when TGE1.3 came out?I remember it coming out in either 2003 or 2004.
#7
08/14/2013 (7:11 am)
Looks very promising. Let us know if Talon is going to launch Steam Greenlight to support it.
#8
08/14/2013 (7:27 am)
Looks really nice. I was a fan of Descent as well. 
#9
08/14/2013 (7:57 am)
I LOVED DESCENT! This is fantastic. I am truly impressed with the game play, art, and overall style. Can't wait to see this release.
#10
Pretty amazing though, good job!
08/14/2013 (8:04 am)
Wow impressive this is made with such old tech, though it explains why there isn't soft particles :PPretty amazing though, good job!
#11
08/14/2013 (9:02 am)
Love it. X-wing fighters like :o) 
#12
08/14/2013 (12:00 pm)
Wow I totally miss Descent, and X-wing (thanks Dwarf!!), I have been working on a space flight SIM now a for a while. I have been building models of famous space vehicles from sci-fi TV and movies(only one right now in the works SGA Puddle Jumper). Please let me know if you might be able to help me get some ground work on the basic flight controls, I would really be appreciative, and great look BTW!!!
#13
08/14/2013 (12:55 pm)
Scott this is truly amazing stuff, I'd love for you to promote this on torque3d.net if you're interested! 
#14
08/14/2013 (1:34 pm)
Well done! Descent was one of my favorites... very cool to see a game in that style.
#15
Really awesome amount of polish for a pre-release build.
It really looks wicked cool and responsive. I love the electronic sound effects and the Gui just feels 'right'.
Congratulations for a very inspiring story as well! Many of us in the community have been struggling with our dream games for a while so it's really motivating to see 'one of us' pull through!
Can't wait to play this! Assuming my old-man reflexes are still decent enough...
08/14/2013 (2:02 pm)
Woa. Didn't expect this at all. I looooove Descent so much, this is a guaranteed buy.Really awesome amount of polish for a pre-release build.
It really looks wicked cool and responsive. I love the electronic sound effects and the Gui just feels 'right'.
Congratulations for a very inspiring story as well! Many of us in the community have been struggling with our dream games for a while so it's really motivating to see 'one of us' pull through!
Can't wait to play this! Assuming my old-man reflexes are still decent enough...
#16
Must have made a lot of changes, I remember TGE 1.4.2. being a great engine to work with and before that was good but didn't look as nice as what you have here.
What sort of changes did you make to the engine?
Also I think it's funny I'm working on a space fighter game called Talon too! Got to think of another name now. :-P
08/14/2013 (4:31 pm)
This is a great looking game. Even more impressed to see it based on TGE 1.3, did you ever look at moving to TGE 1.4.2?Must have made a lot of changes, I remember TGE 1.4.2. being a great engine to work with and before that was good but didn't look as nice as what you have here.
What sort of changes did you make to the engine?
Also I think it's funny I'm working on a space fighter game called Talon too! Got to think of another name now. :-P
#17
Awesome man! Simply great work. Are you planning on doing a post mortem when you complete this? It would be of great interest to this community and developers in general.
I am going to add this to a Games category on my links page.
08/14/2013 (6:01 pm)
@Scott,Awesome man! Simply great work. Are you planning on doing a post mortem when you complete this? It would be of great interest to this community and developers in general.
I am going to add this to a Games category on my links page.
#18
I must admit, I am rather proud of what I was able to achieve, graphically, with this old technology. (I don't know when 1.3 came out, but I bought it back in 2004.) The right graphical tweaks, and some decent art, can go a long way. That said, though.. I do wish I had pixel shaders. That's on the long-term wishlist, but getting a solid game out had to come before indulging my desire for better eye-candy. So, yeah, no soft particles, sorry. :P Maybe in Talon II.
I expected that the revelation that this is TGE 1.3-based might raise a few eyebrows here. There is a LOT I have to say on this subject, and I do hope to get around to talking about it all eventually. What may surprise you, is that of the many, many changes I made to Torque, very few were graphics-related. The biggest challenge was overhauling the rigid-body collision system (yes, I will talk more about that when I can). Beyond that, well, the ship physics is, I think, entirely new code; the input-gathering was tweaked a bit; I refined the networking, including improved compression, ghost-prediction, and lag-compensation; I fixed some bugs in the simulation management, audio management, and detail management; oh, and I enhanced and optimized the particle system, which I guess falls under graphics; and that's just what I can remember off the top of my head. It feels like I've fixed, tweaked, or refined more parts of the engine than I've left alone, but I don't know how true that is. Oh, and ray casting too was overhauled for greater efficiency, and to fix bugs with long distance rays.
As for moving to 1.4.2, or any other version, the answer is this: I had to make the decision early on to focus on making the changes that I needed in order to get the game I wanted. It was a monumental task, and I didn't have time to worry about maintaining compatibility with the main Torque line. By the time 1.4, 1.5, TSE, etc came along, I was well past the point where moving to a new base version was feasible. Porting my changes to the new version would have cost me too much valuable time.
@ Kevin & Simon: Getting the controls right was a high priority for me. I wanted them to feel tight and responsive. I'm glad people noticed. I wanted this to be a fast-paced game, but not chaotic. I want adrenaline-fueled high-speed action, but I don't want things to feel random. I don't like winning, or losing by chance. So precision is of great importance.
@ Lyubomir: Getting Talon on Steam Greenlight is definitely on the agenda. I will of course post an announcement here when that happens.
RE: postmortem: I hope to write up a detailed analysis of this project and the struggles, both human and technical, that were involved... eventually. I do think it's a story worth sharing. I'm glad people find it inspirational. Yes, you can do this, you can make your dream game; but what I haven't talked about yet is the cost. No, not monetary cost, I spent no more on this than the licensing cost of Torque, but there are other costs involved. Doing such a thing as this does not come without compromise. Anyway, right now I have to focus on finishing the game, beta testing the game, promoting the game, and releasing the game; and that will be hard enough among the many life and family issues currently facing me. So, don't expect it any time soon.
08/14/2013 (10:23 pm)
Thanks, everyone, for the kind words. I am, naturally, pleased by how well-received my little project has been. It's also cool to see how many people remember Descent! I must admit, I am rather proud of what I was able to achieve, graphically, with this old technology. (I don't know when 1.3 came out, but I bought it back in 2004.) The right graphical tweaks, and some decent art, can go a long way. That said, though.. I do wish I had pixel shaders. That's on the long-term wishlist, but getting a solid game out had to come before indulging my desire for better eye-candy. So, yeah, no soft particles, sorry. :P Maybe in Talon II.
I expected that the revelation that this is TGE 1.3-based might raise a few eyebrows here. There is a LOT I have to say on this subject, and I do hope to get around to talking about it all eventually. What may surprise you, is that of the many, many changes I made to Torque, very few were graphics-related. The biggest challenge was overhauling the rigid-body collision system (yes, I will talk more about that when I can). Beyond that, well, the ship physics is, I think, entirely new code; the input-gathering was tweaked a bit; I refined the networking, including improved compression, ghost-prediction, and lag-compensation; I fixed some bugs in the simulation management, audio management, and detail management; oh, and I enhanced and optimized the particle system, which I guess falls under graphics; and that's just what I can remember off the top of my head. It feels like I've fixed, tweaked, or refined more parts of the engine than I've left alone, but I don't know how true that is. Oh, and ray casting too was overhauled for greater efficiency, and to fix bugs with long distance rays.
As for moving to 1.4.2, or any other version, the answer is this: I had to make the decision early on to focus on making the changes that I needed in order to get the game I wanted. It was a monumental task, and I didn't have time to worry about maintaining compatibility with the main Torque line. By the time 1.4, 1.5, TSE, etc came along, I was well past the point where moving to a new base version was feasible. Porting my changes to the new version would have cost me too much valuable time.
@ Kevin & Simon: Getting the controls right was a high priority for me. I wanted them to feel tight and responsive. I'm glad people noticed. I wanted this to be a fast-paced game, but not chaotic. I want adrenaline-fueled high-speed action, but I don't want things to feel random. I don't like winning, or losing by chance. So precision is of great importance.
@ Lyubomir: Getting Talon on Steam Greenlight is definitely on the agenda. I will of course post an announcement here when that happens.
RE: postmortem: I hope to write up a detailed analysis of this project and the struggles, both human and technical, that were involved... eventually. I do think it's a story worth sharing. I'm glad people find it inspirational. Yes, you can do this, you can make your dream game; but what I haven't talked about yet is the cost. No, not monetary cost, I spent no more on this than the licensing cost of Torque, but there are other costs involved. Doing such a thing as this does not come without compromise. Anyway, right now I have to focus on finishing the game, beta testing the game, promoting the game, and releasing the game; and that will be hard enough among the many life and family issues currently facing me. So, don't expect it any time soon.
#19
Great story Scott. Look forward to seeing more of this. Don't let us slow you down!
08/14/2013 (11:07 pm)
Scott Richards (aka "the make my game button")Great story Scott. Look forward to seeing more of this. Don't let us slow you down!
#20
I have always been distracted by the new shiny things. Yet the best stuff I did was with the original TGE line of engines. Maybe partly due to having more time then.
Please keep us all up to date on your Steam Greenlight campaign and beta news :-).
08/14/2013 (11:18 pm)
@Scott, I am very impressed that you decided to focus on your game and not be distracted by the version updates.I have always been distracted by the new shiny things. Yet the best stuff I did was with the original TGE line of engines. Maybe partly due to having more time then.
Please keep us all up to date on your Steam Greenlight campaign and beta news :-).
Torque Owner Surge
MDNAMEDIA
The detail you've put into this is AAA
Your an inspiration to guys like me who been here since the beginning and still trying to slug it out in my own home too.