Getting Started With T3D : Empty Template Criticism
by Larry Jennings II · 07/11/2011 (8:21 am) · 3 comments
I'm in the process of transitioning from using T2D to T3D, and i'm noticing alot more code in the "empty" template than you would see in T2D.
You got client/server stuff, camera stuff, functions already bound to the keys, mission stuff, etc; And i'm not sure of what to make of it all, or how i feel about it all.
I understand their trying to make it easier for common 3D game, but imo: The things that are neccessary and needed, shouldnt they be more in the background or in the core part.
I expected more......empty template, so i could have more freedom to explore and experiment with stuff.
IDK, i may be wrong, but it seems like alot of script for an empty template.
You got client/server stuff, camera stuff, functions already bound to the keys, mission stuff, etc; And i'm not sure of what to make of it all, or how i feel about it all.
I understand their trying to make it easier for common 3D game, but imo: The things that are neccessary and needed, shouldnt they be more in the background or in the core part.
I expected more......empty template, so i could have more freedom to explore and experiment with stuff.
IDK, i may be wrong, but it seems like alot of script for an empty template.
About the author
College student interested in serious game dev.
#2
Worth also looking at the 3D resources and TDN.
07/11/2011 (10:09 am)
Hey Larry. This might have been better as a forum post. Moving from 2D to 3D is a bit of a learning curve, but you'll get there. If you are looking to do an FPS style game or not, it may be worth looking at the FPS Example rather than going for an empty template, just to understand the workings. But if you want to jump in the deep end and start completely from scratch you can do so.Worth also looking at the 3D resources and TDN.
#3
The barrier to entry is kind of high, intimidating, and also a bit undefined.
I had posted a few blogs about my learning process with T3D and after running into this same type of issue...I had to make a decision to shelve my learning to a later date, because my goal was to release another game this year (and not necessarily to spend the rest of the year learning another game engine).
I will return to T3D (I paid $500 for it...it would be foolish not to return to it), but I think some SERIOUS focus needs to be made on the part of GG to improve the learning process.
I think slimming down the templates to bare minimums (like a camera) and then walking the developer through the process of adding terrain, adding a player object, adding some light sources, etc. would go a long way towards building the knowledge base and comfort level of the users.
I feel like the current setup is a bit of a "hand wave" towards how you do those things. It's like..."Here you go...here's an empty room...it already has a floor and there's gravity in here as well...and there's a player object and he's all set for your shooter game...but you don't have to worry about how all that happened."
But as a game developer...I want to know EXACTLY how all that happened. I'm exaggerating a bit...because there is no player character in the empty template, but I think my point still stands. There's a ton of stuff in here that GG has done for us...without much explanation as to how.
I've been a Torque owner since TGE and never really "got it." I have recently considered doing an Android game because I think there's money to be made in mobile and tablet games, but I don't want to invest in a Mac to do an iT2D game. So I've begun looking at and learning other engines...I don't think those engines are better than T3D (target platform options aside), but I can say that in a week, I've been able to learn a great deal more about how to use those engines than I have in 6 years as a Torque owner.
GG...please work on this. You have to improve the entry process.
07/13/2011 (5:21 am)
@Larry...I agree with you here. I think this is indicative of a problem that keeps people from really being able to dig into Torque 3D.The barrier to entry is kind of high, intimidating, and also a bit undefined.
I had posted a few blogs about my learning process with T3D and after running into this same type of issue...I had to make a decision to shelve my learning to a later date, because my goal was to release another game this year (and not necessarily to spend the rest of the year learning another game engine).
I will return to T3D (I paid $500 for it...it would be foolish not to return to it), but I think some SERIOUS focus needs to be made on the part of GG to improve the learning process.
I think slimming down the templates to bare minimums (like a camera) and then walking the developer through the process of adding terrain, adding a player object, adding some light sources, etc. would go a long way towards building the knowledge base and comfort level of the users.
I feel like the current setup is a bit of a "hand wave" towards how you do those things. It's like..."Here you go...here's an empty room...it already has a floor and there's gravity in here as well...and there's a player object and he's all set for your shooter game...but you don't have to worry about how all that happened."
But as a game developer...I want to know EXACTLY how all that happened. I'm exaggerating a bit...because there is no player character in the empty template, but I think my point still stands. There's a ton of stuff in here that GG has done for us...without much explanation as to how.
I've been a Torque owner since TGE and never really "got it." I have recently considered doing an Android game because I think there's money to be made in mobile and tablet games, but I don't want to invest in a Mac to do an iT2D game. So I've begun looking at and learning other engines...I don't think those engines are better than T3D (target platform options aside), but I can say that in a week, I've been able to learn a great deal more about how to use those engines than I have in 6 years as a Torque owner.
GG...please work on this. You have to improve the entry process.
Associate Konrad Kiss
Bitgap Games
It's a tough call what to take out and what to leave in the template. I believe that the idea was to keep everything in it that is not too genre specific as examples on how to use those features. You need input in most games after all. The more you take away the steeper the learning curve gets - but also, the more you keep the more bloated (and confusing) it is for a newcomer.
If I didn't convince you, do this: delete everything from game/ except your executable and dll files and shaders directory. Create an empty main.cs. Create an art and a scripts directory. In scripts, create client and server directories - you definitely want to keep those separated. Try going from there.
You'll most likely want to first initialize your canvas, so you might want to keep that code. The mission idea is also a pretty good one, you want to keep that too. But now how to do the loading part? Well, a very good approach is how it is in the Empty template. Etc...
Eventually, you will end up with something like Empty. You will learn a great deal about the engine, but you have not yet created a single line of actual game logic. Still it's definitely worth going through this if you plan to use Torque for more than a simple project.