Closing down? I don't believe that!
by Giuseppe De Francesco · 11/12/2010 (11:49 pm) · 34 comments
Well, I’ve been almost silent till now but I feel like it’s time to say something about this entire new situation.
IA made a huge mistake underestimating Torque engines and wagering on Instant Jam. From what I can see from my position the picture I’m getting is typical: young people with some money to spend and an idea they think is the best ever. Like many other game studios they made a classic mistake putting almost all their resources in that project, leaving behind the rest.
Every one could tell them that Instant Jam wasn’t such a great idea for making real money: that kind of project needs way more money to be actually successful and they clearly didn’t have enough lucidity to get that.
TorquePowered team had a good plan for their engines: what they have on their desks for 2011 could have been really successful. From the few info I have they could actually become a serious threat to Unity but… IA didn’t put enough money to fund the project so it has advanced at snail pace. IA showed a complete blindness and a quite poor ability to do business.
That said, I’m confident that there are out there intelligent people able to understand that TorquePowered has all that’s needed to shake Unity's market position, but they need real resources to succeed. TP has a very good team and excellent contractors: giving them more developers will be a win-win situation.
I’m sure that Eric is well able to present their plans and their technology to prospect buyers, so guys don’t let yourself down and have faith ;)
IA made a huge mistake underestimating Torque engines and wagering on Instant Jam. From what I can see from my position the picture I’m getting is typical: young people with some money to spend and an idea they think is the best ever. Like many other game studios they made a classic mistake putting almost all their resources in that project, leaving behind the rest.
Every one could tell them that Instant Jam wasn’t such a great idea for making real money: that kind of project needs way more money to be actually successful and they clearly didn’t have enough lucidity to get that.
TorquePowered team had a good plan for their engines: what they have on their desks for 2011 could have been really successful. From the few info I have they could actually become a serious threat to Unity but… IA didn’t put enough money to fund the project so it has advanced at snail pace. IA showed a complete blindness and a quite poor ability to do business.
That said, I’m confident that there are out there intelligent people able to understand that TorquePowered has all that’s needed to shake Unity's market position, but they need real resources to succeed. TP has a very good team and excellent contractors: giving them more developers will be a win-win situation.
I’m sure that Eric is well able to present their plans and their technology to prospect buyers, so guys don’t let yourself down and have faith ;)
About the author
In the software eng. field since 1981, in charge of R&D during last 10 years. IEEE Senior Member (and volunteer).
#2
It's been great working with TP, and I really wished this didn't happen as its going to cost me close to 10k USD more to rewrite what was once in Torque..
11/13/2010 (1:51 am)
I hope you're right, but by the time this comes true we will already be moving our project to Unity3D...It's been great working with TP, and I really wished this didn't happen as its going to cost me close to 10k USD more to rewrite what was once in Torque..
#3
I'm not sure to follow: I could understand your position for a brand new project but if you have an ongoing T3D one, having invested already, I see no need to port it to a new engine as T3D is well able to make you deploy it with results that are nothing less than Unity Pro.
11/13/2010 (2:11 am)
Thanhda,I'm not sure to follow: I could understand your position for a brand new project but if you have an ongoing T3D one, having invested already, I see no need to port it to a new engine as T3D is well able to make you deploy it with results that are nothing less than Unity Pro.
#4
@Thanhda: I understand you as you are mainly working on iTGE; but if we can get a grip on latest snapshot of iT3D I'm sure it will be possible for the community to keep it alive and also to bring it on par with some other game engines.
11/13/2010 (5:06 am)
++@Thanhda: I understand you as you are mainly working on iTGE; but if we can get a grip on latest snapshot of iT3D I'm sure it will be possible for the community to keep it alive and also to bring it on par with some other game engines.
#5
11/13/2010 (6:36 am)
You're right Guiseppe.. we did think about porting everything to Unity, but it's just time and money that we don't have, so we're going to stick with Torque release on Torque 3D 1.1 B3, then depending on how long it takes for IA to find a buyer, then decide on our future developments or modify the engine to our requirements. It also depends what the new buyer wants to do with the technology, they may not update it for community use.
#6
11/13/2010 (6:39 am)
3rd party kits should treat T3D 1.1 B3 as the final release and bring their packs/code up to release. This way everything will be up to date making and keeping the engine and community strong. It will take time for the new buyer if the community is in their sites to get up to speed with the engine developments again.
#7
Time is money, and fortunately enough we have the cash flow to survive this, but just barely, and i know a few others that really cant do too much about it.
Good luck with everything, I hope Torque survives the buyout.
11/13/2010 (7:12 am)
We are building a genre kit. well almost a new toolkit all together for Torque. How can we sell a toolkit for an engine that may possibly not be supported/shutdown.Time is money, and fortunately enough we have the cash flow to survive this, but just barely, and i know a few others that really cant do too much about it.
Good luck with everything, I hope Torque survives the buyout.
#8
11/13/2010 (7:18 am)
There are lots of people, hundreds of current people and thousands overall for you to market your genre kit to. The Torque community are not going anywhere anytime soon, even if they did a new home will be there waiting for them to continue the development as if there was a Torque team there already. Torque will live on. 
#9
Thats what you say about a new upcoming product. Not about a decade old mammoth that had the whole span to keep the grasp firm on the dreamers out there.
This had to happen, it's the nature of the business world.
Snipped by moderator.
11/13/2010 (9:15 am)
To be honest, "From the few info I have they could actually become a serious threat to Unity but…"Thats what you say about a new upcoming product. Not about a decade old mammoth that had the whole span to keep the grasp firm on the dreamers out there.
This had to happen, it's the nature of the business world.
Snipped by moderator.
#10
I don't have the liberty to tell here if it's a new product or a T3D evolution, all I can tell is that judging from the few things that TP people could share with us Associates it really looks great. If I had that kind of money I wouldn't hesitate to buy TP right away.
11/13/2010 (12:42 pm)
Christian,I don't have the liberty to tell here if it's a new product or a T3D evolution, all I can tell is that judging from the few things that TP people could share with us Associates it really looks great. If I had that kind of money I wouldn't hesitate to buy TP right away.
#11
++
It is such a shame TP to close doors when the technology is almost completed, the QA team fixed hundreds of bugs.The documentation is almost completed. T3D 1.1 is almost finished.
It was a matter of time (may be 2-3 months) things would take a turn for the better.
For example Terathon Software are a small team (may be 5-6 persons),but they have not closed doors,the C4 engine gets better with ports for PS3 and XBOX360. And it seems they know how to do business.
11/13/2010 (3:30 pm)
@Guiseppe++
It is such a shame TP to close doors when the technology is almost completed, the QA team fixed hundreds of bugs.The documentation is almost completed. T3D 1.1 is almost finished.
It was a matter of time (may be 2-3 months) things would take a turn for the better.
For example Terathon Software are a small team (may be 5-6 persons),but they have not closed doors,the C4 engine gets better with ports for PS3 and XBOX360. And it seems they know how to do business.
#12
I've been around since TSE was a dream, and Looking at T3D its not been a single evolution but a long hard carpet weaving.
Dont tell me you would blindly write the check and not change a single thing. More funding to pay for what, a crew mix of 80%stewards serving drinks and 20% coal shufflers.
What sold TGE -it did, what sold Unity -it did, what sold the current range TP engines ?
To me it's all quite simple math.
11/13/2010 (5:46 pm)
The liberty to tell me if it's a new product or a T3D evolution?I've been around since TSE was a dream, and Looking at T3D its not been a single evolution but a long hard carpet weaving.
Dont tell me you would blindly write the check and not change a single thing. More funding to pay for what, a crew mix of 80%stewards serving drinks and 20% coal shufflers.
What sold TGE -it did, what sold Unity -it did, what sold the current range TP engines ?
To me it's all quite simple math.
#13
we Associates have a broader view about what's going on in TP, but we also are bound by a NDA. I can assure you that I wouldn't write a check blindly ;)
11/13/2010 (6:02 pm)
Christian,we Associates have a broader view about what's going on in TP, but we also are bound by a NDA. I can assure you that I wouldn't write a check blindly ;)
#14
It's not simple math. The complexity and chaos of what has gone down is far bigger than you know.
11/13/2010 (6:58 pm)
@Christian S - Pino does have insight you do not, so there is validity to some of his statements. It's not simple math. The complexity and chaos of what has gone down is far bigger than you know.
#15
++ to the above snipped post
With you snipping me into what you like, and stating what I know and do not know about business culture and revenues...
I'm done
11/13/2010 (8:36 pm)
Cheers!++ to the above snipped post
With you snipping me into what you like, and stating what I know and do not know about business culture and revenues...
I'm done
#16
Regardless...see ya!
11/13/2010 (8:54 pm)
I was stating that you do not know enough about our situation and what went down to simplify things...Regardless...see ya!
#17
11/13/2010 (9:23 pm)
Quote: How can we sell a toolkit for an engine that may possibly not be supported/shutdown.Adobe shut down atmosphere 10 years ago. People are still making games and kits with it.
#18
++
11/13/2010 (11:17 pm)
Quote:
we Associates have a broader view about what's going on in TP, but we also are bound by a NDA. I can assure you that I wouldn't write a check blindly ;)
++
#19
It seems like what the community donated of good faith in the T3D project may be flushed because of bad management.
From a simple users point of view it seems like the marketing guys have burned money overselling the product.
If you go to the product page to buy T3D there is no hint whatsoever that what you buy is an unfinished product.
11/14/2010 (9:23 am)
As simple users we have another view on this entire matter.It seems like what the community donated of good faith in the T3D project may be flushed because of bad management.
From a simple users point of view it seems like the marketing guys have burned money overselling the product.
If you go to the product page to buy T3D there is no hint whatsoever that what you buy is an unfinished product.
#20
The teams bashing the keyboards getting bugs crushed are the only ones we as users can see delivering results.
Please someone tell us that it isn't so...
11/14/2010 (9:24 am)
Even simple indie guys know that if you put a pack up for sale it better have what you promise or you're out of buisness.The teams bashing the keyboards getting bugs crushed are the only ones we as users can see delivering results.
Please someone tell us that it isn't so...
Torque Owner Luis Rodrigues
WinterLeaf Entertainment