October Update
by Eric Preisz · 10/30/2010 (12:53 am) · 107 comments

It’s been about a month since I posted a blog, so we all agreed that I would take some time to post this blog instead of our normal monthly product update in the forums. We are a heads down right now focusing on Windows Phone 7, so writing one big update will free up the others to keep things rolling. So instead of blogging on a single big topic, I’m going to cover a lot of smaller developments.

Torque 3D Binary
We developed the business case for our binary offering a little over a year ago. At the time, the idea of updating a binary with the final release seemed reasonable. One of the assumptions that was made at the time was that a final 1.1 would be available sooner rather than later. Well, the final release hasn’t happened. One reason that 1.1 final hasn’t arrived is that we have increased the bar for what we consider final. We introduced beta 3, and from what we are hearing from you, we are indeed approaching a higher bar of quality. The numbers of bugs we are now finding and recording are significantly less than the time after our beta 2 release. And while the pro users have benefited from the quality improvement, the binary users sat patiently waiting for 1.1 so that they can get their hands on the fixes and performance increases.
We decided that the binary users have been waiting too long and since beta 3 is such a quality and performance improvement over the 1.0 binary, we came to the realization that it’s only right for us to change our stated policy and give the binary users a binary version of 1.1 beta 3. Your 1.0 and 1.1 beta 3 versions are now available in your account.
![]() Web Site UpdatesWe are continuing to work on our web-site. Right now we are in the middle of big update of our payment processing system in order to accommodate the tax laws both in the US and overseas. I would rather be spending our time on features for our community, but this work is part of doing business correctly. During this update, we’ve been adding some small features to the site and we are continuing to fix bugs the best we can. Two improvements we are working on include Studio Profiles which gives you a place to promote your studio on our site; if this is a popular feature, we will continue to increase the functionality. In addition to the Studio Profile, Resource Filters simplify searching for resources by engine type. |

Game Distribution
There are two big challenges a game developer faces. The first is finishing a game; the second, and often overlooked challenge, is distributing your game. These days, it’s hard for you to get your game noticed. Web-distribution is one avenue for bringing your game to the people. We currently have a web-based plug-in for Torque 3D that many of you are using. In addition to that implementation, our company has been working for years on a high-end distribution system. We aren’t ready to make that system available to the masses in the near term, so I’ve been given the company “OK” to start working with third parties who are also developing similar technologies. What this means to you is that we are working towards partnerships so that we can integrate these technologies into our products so that you can more easily take advantage of their offerings. We have started working on a Torque 2D 1.7.6 that will hopefully make it easier for you to distribute your games via the web. More to follow later in blog dedicated to the topic.

TorqueX
GS 3.1 is entering into the sun setting phase and from what we’ve read in public forums, it appears as though games that are submitted using GS 3.1 will be rejected three months after GS Connect 4.0 is released , That means we have x+90 days of 3.1 publishing with x being the number of days until GS Connect 4.0 final release. That put us and our TorqueX developers working towards XBLIG in a bit of a pickle.
To further complicate issues, as you know, we are working on a new XNA based engine that we feel is significant architectural improvement over that of TorqueX. The focus for our initial release is for Windows Phone 7; however, I can tell you that we’ve done XBox tests on our Windows Phone 7 code and it runs on the Xbox 360. This doesn’t guarantee that the Windows Phone 7 code will run on the Xbox 360 at launch; but at a minimum it’s foreseeable that it won’t be far from running on the Xbox 360.
So how are we reacting to this news?
Frankly, we haven’t decided. We are measuring a couple of factors before we make a final decision. Those being:
1) The date of the release of GS 4.0 Connect
2) The state of our Windows Phone 7 Engine at that time
3) The market demand for XBLIG publishing with TorqueX 3.1.5
Here’s what we do know:
1) TorqueX users are allowed to upgrade to 4.0 themselves and publish on any XNA platform ( including the phone)
2) We are dropping our price of TorqueX 3.1.5 to $99 as of tomorrow
3) We added a warning to the check-out so that no one purchase TorqueX without knowing the current situation.
4) Community members (graciously driven by Pino ) have undertaken the job of porting TorqueX 3.1.5 to XNA 4.0 today.
5) TorqueX owners will receive a discount towards our Windows Phone 7 engine.

iTorque 3D
We are continuing to work hard on iTorque 3D, but we have run into some delays. We are currently forecasting a release in Q1 with the hopes of delivering a beta as soon as possible.
iTorque 2D
The news for iTorque 2D 1.4.1 is simple. We’ve been continuing to fix bugs and we’ve updated everything so that it is compatible with the last iOS updates. This version will be going to QA soon. Depending on the results of our testing, we could have an update in weeks.

Closing
I just returned from the MAX conference. For those of you who don’t know, that’s the Adobe annual developers conference. I felt out of my element, but their 3D hardware accelerating API caught my eye. As game developers, we need to keep an open mind about the next big platform. It’s a crapshoot.
I stumbled upon Jeff Tunnell’s last blog at GG where he states that Windows, OSX, and Linux are not enough. Jeff’s statements were spot on. And while it was more plausible to hit all of the major platforms two years ago, it’s becoming increasingly difficult to accomplish considering the explosion of platforms ( and the looseness of the definition of a platform ). Consoles, phones, tablets, web-portals, thin clients( i.e., OnLive ), and now TVs. Developers should realize that there may be some real potential to supporting 10 to 20 different “platforms” in the not so distant future. The ocean is big -we are preparing.
About the author
Manager, Programmer, Author, Professor, Small Business Owner, and Marketer.
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#22
It is not the case actually.
10/31/2010 (3:14 pm)
Does T3D 1.0.1 beta 3 will be available for Mac Pro users (so, access to the Mac version of T3D 1.0.1 beta 3 with source code access) ?It is not the case actually.
#23
Andy, majority of Unity games that was develop for the iPhone or any other platform uses scripts only. I have several friends in the AAA community and even they just use Unity scripts to make their game.
Overall the cost of the engine isn't as important as the cost in development. To make a casual game most developers have at least 50k!100k to play with including the cost of the engine. Hell some of the iPhone games we worked on in the past had 50k budget just for art!
Time is also a big factor, some companies really don't have the time to wait for something to be completed.
I think T3D is awesome, esp the latest Beta 3, I think we need more tool sets like this. My only problem with T3D is that they do not support multiple view ports to build you level. This is something that should have been implemented since day 1.
Like many here, we start to second guess if Torque was the right choice over unity. I think Unity only really expended once the iPhone market exploded, after all their system was primarily a Mac engine only.
Like everyone else, if we didn't invest so much time and money into our Torque games, we may have considered moving into Unity instead. I still have my hopes for Torque and really hope they get their act together and release some awesome stuff.
10/31/2010 (4:40 pm)
Quote:The thing which alot of people aren't considering is the cost of unity if you require the source.
Unity pro is $1500 (per seat!), 50% more then T3D (which supports studio licensing). and thats without the source which you get with T3D.
Unity's source is dependant on the title and the formats it will be released on, but is generally around the €30,000 ($42,000)
what did Sir Alex say about cows in the neighbours fields ? ;)
If you can 100% rely on just script access though...
Andy, majority of Unity games that was develop for the iPhone or any other platform uses scripts only. I have several friends in the AAA community and even they just use Unity scripts to make their game.
Overall the cost of the engine isn't as important as the cost in development. To make a casual game most developers have at least 50k!100k to play with including the cost of the engine. Hell some of the iPhone games we worked on in the past had 50k budget just for art!
Time is also a big factor, some companies really don't have the time to wait for something to be completed.
I think T3D is awesome, esp the latest Beta 3, I think we need more tool sets like this. My only problem with T3D is that they do not support multiple view ports to build you level. This is something that should have been implemented since day 1.
Like many here, we start to second guess if Torque was the right choice over unity. I think Unity only really expended once the iPhone market exploded, after all their system was primarily a Mac engine only.
Like everyone else, if we didn't invest so much time and money into our Torque games, we may have considered moving into Unity instead. I still have my hopes for Torque and really hope they get their act together and release some awesome stuff.
#25
10/31/2010 (5:32 pm)
removed
#26
I wasn't trying to say that Unity wasn't a good Choice, or even a better choice for your particular game at the moment, it might be:O)..... Just that if Torque didn't have every feature you needed when you bought it then you might want to re-think the strategy you use when making the initial choice over what engine you will choose. It's not that I wouldn't want any future features that Torque has in my game, but if it isn't there, and stable when I buy it at 1.0(1.0 wasn't a beta release), then It won't be going in my game. Also making a plan that totally hinges on someone else's plan, no matter how good they are, or have been is too large of a risk, as you have no real idea what is going on outside of these Blogs(which are appreciated Eric!). It doesn't matter if you had millions and were making a game with a full Unreal3 license, you would buy the engine and base you game off of what that Engine has right then, not what updates they are promising you in a month, Epic Games or not. It just feels from your post that you are blaming Torque, and it's not their fault you game isn't done, or on time. I'm sorry but that is just the truth. Good luck! I really wish you the best of success. I have followed your posts Julian and I think you game looks great so far, just so you don't think I am trying to bash you, just inform.
10/31/2010 (6:47 pm)
@JulianRI wasn't trying to say that Unity wasn't a good Choice, or even a better choice for your particular game at the moment, it might be:O)..... Just that if Torque didn't have every feature you needed when you bought it then you might want to re-think the strategy you use when making the initial choice over what engine you will choose. It's not that I wouldn't want any future features that Torque has in my game, but if it isn't there, and stable when I buy it at 1.0(1.0 wasn't a beta release), then It won't be going in my game. Also making a plan that totally hinges on someone else's plan, no matter how good they are, or have been is too large of a risk, as you have no real idea what is going on outside of these Blogs(which are appreciated Eric!). It doesn't matter if you had millions and were making a game with a full Unreal3 license, you would buy the engine and base you game off of what that Engine has right then, not what updates they are promising you in a month, Epic Games or not. It just feels from your post that you are blaming Torque, and it's not their fault you game isn't done, or on time. I'm sorry but that is just the truth. Good luck! I really wish you the best of success. I have followed your posts Julian and I think you game looks great so far, just so you don't think I am trying to bash you, just inform.
#27
edit: thanks for following my blogs, ps. what game did you release on 1.0 ? - drop me an email.
10/31/2010 (7:30 pm)
@Bobby - understand where you are coming from. I was an early adopter of T3D, so already invested into the engine way before 1.0 release and knew what I was expecting from the engine but didn't expect to have to fix a whole array of bugs on the existing features provided before I could use it for my needs, middleware came into it later after 1.1 Beta and evaluating their upgrade path to the engine so I have clearly thought about it. I've used Torque from TGE 1.5 days (bought it a few years before 1.5 before going ahead with a game), so T3D at the time was the best option for me as it inherited its previous engines, to learn a new engine and tools is just unthinkable without some capital behind you to get the ball rolling on a serious project whilst you learn (don't have that kind of cash anymore after investing lots on R&D - things like monorail/parachutes, porting code from previous versions, art pipeline and the engine). Things change, but currently I still think Torque is the right engine for our project because of the middleware it now supports, but even middleware can go unsupported with an engine that falls behind - this also may change for future games, it all depends how things pan out and I'm hoping for a return on that investment. Torque 3D 1.1 B3 is by far the best release, just that little extra mile would make all the difference in completing 1.1 final to allow middleware to catch up and the fact that more engines are being added to the list is all that bothers me - saturation point, spreading your resources thin and putting a flagship engine on the back burner is not the best news - I've been there with two businesses and multiple products, something has to give. I'm not blaming Torque at all in case it comes across that way. Things have improved massively with Torque from 1.0 - kudos to the guys working on it. Just the reasons above need to be addressed as I don't want to see Torque get swallowed up into void of no return. Anyway I've said my bit. edit: thanks for following my blogs, ps. what game did you release on 1.0 ? - drop me an email.
#28
PS. Thank you Julian for have a great conversation with me and keeping it civil, not all that I have spoken to here in the past keep it that way and are easily offended by others that are just trying to help and leave clarity for others that read these posts. My hat is off to you, and to you who ever raised you for teaching you manners!
Bobby
11/01/2010 (12:42 am)
Sorry I didn't mean to lead you to believe that I have released a game with Torque 3D personally I am currently working for Blizzard in my off time, as well as trying to assist them with Cataclysm. I'm pretty sure that is all the NDA will allow me to say though. I have worked with Dave at myDreamRPG, a loong time ago, as well as another project he was working on that I recently heard was going again. as well as plenty of games that never made it as far as having an name on them but at least I sold some concept art. You certainly are correct about Middleware and it is tough spot you are in sir. Also from Eric's wording it does seem as though they have personnel that are working on more than one project at a time, and switching all their people(resources) to direct at whatever product they feel they need to develop first, which is why I assume you are worried. I'm not a man a business but an Artist First and a Professional programmer second, but this way of doing things does sound a bit shaky, but perhaps you do what you can with what you have to work with at the time. I hope this all goes well for all of us. PS. Thank you Julian for have a great conversation with me and keeping it civil, not all that I have spoken to here in the past keep it that way and are easily offended by others that are just trying to help and leave clarity for others that read these posts. My hat is off to you, and to you who ever raised you for teaching you manners!
Bobby
#29
Thanks
11/01/2010 (1:45 am)
Can we get a little info on South Pacific and T3D 1.1 final version?Thanks
#30
Mythos Labs co-developed the Molehill 3D keynote demo. I think the most interesting bit is the emphasis on mobile/tablet/TV with AIR and not so much the Flash plugin. The plugin is obviously important, but I don't think primary to the runtime's (continued) success. It was also good to see Flash -> HTML5 rewriters and such in the works, very cool :)
Of course, this is all emerging platform stuff and won't be out in the wild for awhile. What we didn't see on display were 3D content tools and they've stated that they plan on Molehill remaining a low level API with 3rd party engines built on it. Which is already happening...
As a content creator, Adobe's focus on getting content on as many screens/platforms as possible is very appealing. By almost all reports, MAX was a clear indicator that they're stepping up their game.
I hope you received your Droid2. I (semi-stupidly) ended up hanging back to do work instead of using my pass. Luckily, Lara didn't need hers, so I am all set... nice phone and best conference swag, pretty much ever! :)
11/01/2010 (6:29 am)
Quote:I just returned from the MAX conference. For those of you who don’t know, that’s the Adobe annual developers conference. I felt out of my element, but their 3D hardware accelerating API caught my eye.
Mythos Labs co-developed the Molehill 3D keynote demo. I think the most interesting bit is the emphasis on mobile/tablet/TV with AIR and not so much the Flash plugin. The plugin is obviously important, but I don't think primary to the runtime's (continued) success. It was also good to see Flash -> HTML5 rewriters and such in the works, very cool :)
Of course, this is all emerging platform stuff and won't be out in the wild for awhile. What we didn't see on display were 3D content tools and they've stated that they plan on Molehill remaining a low level API with 3rd party engines built on it. Which is already happening...
As a content creator, Adobe's focus on getting content on as many screens/platforms as possible is very appealing. By almost all reports, MAX was a clear indicator that they're stepping up their game.
I hope you received your Droid2. I (semi-stupidly) ended up hanging back to do work instead of using my pass. Luckily, Lara didn't need hers, so I am all set... nice phone and best conference swag, pretty much ever! :)
#31
Would be really nice to see more regular blog updates on the status of things. It's become far too quiet around here.
11/01/2010 (11:40 am)
Thanks for the update, especially happy that binary users are finally getting in on the 1.1 stuff.Would be really nice to see more regular blog updates on the status of things. It's become far too quiet around here.
#32
I will have to go back TGEA 1.82....
11/01/2010 (1:00 pm)
Quote:
We are a heads down right now focusing on Windows Phone 7
I will have to go back TGEA 1.82....
#33
11/01/2010 (5:54 pm)
Good news to see the Beta also for binary owners. Can I install next to 1.0.1 or should I first uninstall the older version?
#34
11/01/2010 (5:59 pm)
I recommend uninstalling it first. Just back up your projects folder for porting purposes.
#35
@Thomas - Not at current prices. Remember, our competitors pro price with full source is much more expensive than ours.
@Guimo - Convergence has been a big topic of ours for the past year.
@Steve – Note those with big parent companies :)
@Robo – I’ll have to get back to you with an answer. I need an update.
@Dusty – That’s basically it. We’ve been playing around with a couple of web distribution options. There’s some really cool things out there that we would like to integrate to make it easier for you to get on their platform. It’s a work in progress and a test for us to see how interested our community is about distributing via the web. Given all of the different technologies available; we are far from any clear winner in my opinion.
@Deepscratch – can you e-mail support@torquepowered.com? I’ll make sure your request is answered. [/quote]
@Patrick – The 1.7.6 update will be a fairly small update; I don’t want to oversell it here.
@Julian – It’s one of several factors.
@Nicolas – I’m waiting for the latest update from development, but I think we will measure the release in weeks, not months.
@Kory – We will have to update you a bit later when timelines are more concrete.
@Josh – Impressive stuff! Great work! A Windows Phone 7 keynote and an Adobe keynote in one year!
11/01/2010 (6:32 pm)
Quote: “Did GG (TP) think about to integrate Umbra Occlusion Culling and Beast Lightmapping into T3D like Unity did?”
@Thomas - Not at current prices. Remember, our competitors pro price with full source is much more expensive than ours.
Quote: My opinion (I guess it doesn't matter at all) GG should really start integrating technologies. Integrate T3D and T2D and iT3D with iT2D, so all your efforts are focused into two engines.
@Guimo - Convergence has been a big topic of ours for the past year.
Quote: I thought that it was the right of every American to dodge tax? ;)
@Steve – Note those with big parent companies :)
@Robo – I’ll have to get back to you with an answer. I need an update.
@Dusty – That’s basically it. We’ve been playing around with a couple of web distribution options. There’s some really cool things out there that we would like to integrate to make it easier for you to get on their platform. It’s a work in progress and a test for us to see how interested our community is about distributing via the web. Given all of the different technologies available; we are far from any clear winner in my opinion.
@Deepscratch – can you e-mail support@torquepowered.com? I’ll make sure your request is answered. [/quote]
@Patrick – The 1.7.6 update will be a fairly small update; I don’t want to oversell it here.
Quote: “is the delay of 1.1 final due to the apple version not being up to speed with 1.1 b3?”
@Julian – It’s one of several factors.
Quote: “Does T3D 1.0.1 beta 3 will be available for Mac Pro users”
@Nicolas – I’m waiting for the latest update from development, but I think we will measure the release in weeks, not months.
Quote:Can we get a little info on South Pacific and T3D 1.1 final version?
@Kory – We will have to update you a bit later when timelines are more concrete.
@Josh – Impressive stuff! Great work! A Windows Phone 7 keynote and an Adobe keynote in one year!
#36
Will there be some form of Occlusion Culling in iT3D? Something probably needed esp for iPhone usuage.
11/01/2010 (6:40 pm)
@EricWill there be some form of Occlusion Culling in iT3D? Something probably needed esp for iPhone usuage.
#38
11/01/2010 (7:29 pm)
I would be interested in hearing more about the web distribution. A streaming, social site connecting, like IA looks to have, would be ideal. It seems IA and TP need to merge to keep up with the market of other engines.
#39
11/01/2010 (8:58 pm)
Snipped by moderator.
#40
I work with many AAA studios that currently use Torque for their game and have release some nice looking games with it. However most of the studios I've worked with are using TGB or T2D, not so much in their 3D engine side. However I do know a couple of commercial games released using the Torque (3d) engine.
However I do agree with you on some points you made. Torque source code should not be a selling point. Scripts should be enough to make a good quality game. Torque Needs to focus on developing more tool sets that make making games easier, button line.
The problem is that most Torque users are hobbyist, that's because of their price point. Make a better engine and charge more, that's really the only solution. Like I say, you pay for what you get.
I still have high hope for Torque, lets hope they impress us with their new Quality Control.
11/01/2010 (9:08 pm)
@JamesI work with many AAA studios that currently use Torque for their game and have release some nice looking games with it. However most of the studios I've worked with are using TGB or T2D, not so much in their 3D engine side. However I do know a couple of commercial games released using the Torque (3d) engine.
However I do agree with you on some points you made. Torque source code should not be a selling point. Scripts should be enough to make a good quality game. Torque Needs to focus on developing more tool sets that make making games easier, button line.
The problem is that most Torque users are hobbyist, that's because of their price point. Make a better engine and charge more, that's really the only solution. Like I say, you pay for what you get.
I still have high hope for Torque, lets hope they impress us with their new Quality Control.

Torque Owner Szzg007
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