Free AE: Cambodia Samples & Full Pack Released!
by Alan James · 08/17/2010 (2:01 am) · 19 comments
UPDATE - FULL PACK IS NOW AVAILABLE!
Hey Everyone!
Well, I'm about a week behind the promised release date of the Ancient Empires: Cambodia Pack, so for me, I'm way ahead of schedule. A couple day's before I intended on releasing the pack, I concluded that I didn't like the roof structure, it was too different than the various architecture that I'd see and it was somewhat similar to other things I'd seen done around the 'net. So I set about reworking them a bit more in line with the real ruins. Now don't expect these to be in any way an "authentic" representation of the Khmer Ruins or Angkor Wat style architecture as a whole, I've still taken a fair amount of "artistic liberties", but I'm more satisfied with the design.
Now on to why the sampler pack. The reason I'm releasing some samples is that these models are heavy on the polys. I've said that at least once before but I've got to reiterate it. The buildings range from 4400 to upwards of 16000+ on one of the temples. My draw calls are still fairly low, but I'd really like folks to be sure they know what they're getting into before they pull the trigger on the incredibly good deal that's going on through August. (Notice that sales redirect?)
Anyway, the included building in the sample pack's primary LOD is 15444, with 5 LODs down from there. There is a banyan tree and a couple of pieces of broken blocks for you to try out. I'll hold off a day or so on releasing the pack so a few folks can try it out, post some feed back and re-address the LOD points and any other errors/problems/catastrophes if needs be.
So that's it, now on to the pictures, video and the indexes of included content. This Pack, by the way doesn't include demo missions.
As I noted previously, I'm running a 25% Off all packs on www.monsterpacks.com during the month of August, just use the code: August2010. It can be used on more than one purchase, one discount per purchase. I'll also be running the ByreVille Farm Pack and the Ancient Empires: Cambodia at discounted introductory prices, so they fall just below $20 during August. Yeah!!!
Thanks for reading all this, once again and for checking out the stuff!
Alan
OH, almost forgot! Here's the url for the download: www.monsterpacks.com/temp/AEC_T3D_SAMPLE.zip
Here the included sample buildings:
Here are a few new screenshots with the Ancient Empires: Cambodia Pack models dropped into the Flower Power Environment Pack Demo levels:
Here is the model indexes:
And finally a fairly decent video (My CPU, an ol' P4 chugs a little on the video capture, but hey, what can you do?):
About the author
#2
08/17/2010 (6:41 am)
Your screenshots are simply stunning. Wonderful work, great eye for setting a environmental mood! 
#3
Also - any chance of a Future Empires series? :)
08/17/2010 (8:34 am)
Awesome content, Alan! I can't wait for the final version to come out and pick that up along with the Gold Rush Mine pack. This August deal is awesome! I'll have to check what else I don't yet have on my monsterpacks account.Also - any chance of a Future Empires series? :)
#4
08/17/2010 (1:34 pm)
Was wondering why you had been so quiet. Awesome shots. 
#5
The levels really looks very nice.
Edit: i was try out the sample models in a empty mission. Also i was explore the model inside and outside. If you ask me, you can redouce a lot polygons. It have some rooms inside where is rendered, but no one will be there and see it. So the engine always render polygons no one will see. Don't take this wrong.. i will just help you to make your models faster :) I realy like what you do!
08/17/2010 (2:33 pm)
very , very nice looking. Gtreat work and awesome. But why the video have problem in fps? Does the model make it a bit lag? Or is your Pc system and video card not so fast?The levels really looks very nice.
Edit: i was try out the sample models in a empty mission. Also i was explore the model inside and outside. If you ask me, you can redouce a lot polygons. It have some rooms inside where is rendered, but no one will be there and see it. So the engine always render polygons no one will see. Don't take this wrong.. i will just help you to make your models faster :) I realy like what you do!
#6
08/17/2010 (2:36 pm)
good shots, looking forward in seeing and hearing more about your future packs. Great work and congrets!
#7
@Konrad.
Possibly, I'd worked on some fairly large scale sci-fi exteriors a while back, so you never know. =)
@Daniel, My system GPU is pretty strong (nVidia 260 896mb) but it's in a system with six year old P4 with 2gb straight DDR, so Fraps usually gives me a hard time in the capture process at 1280x768. Whenever I kick on the capture, it usually knocks my fps down 15-20 min.
...And yeah, there are a few polys, too. Give the models a try and see how it goes! =)
08/17/2010 (2:50 pm)
Hey, thanks guys. Remember to make sure you grab the samples and test them out.@Konrad.
Possibly, I'd worked on some fairly large scale sci-fi exteriors a while back, so you never know. =)
@Daniel, My system GPU is pretty strong (nVidia 260 896mb) but it's in a system with six year old P4 with 2gb straight DDR, so Fraps usually gives me a hard time in the capture process at 1280x768. Whenever I kick on the capture, it usually knocks my fps down 15-20 min.
...And yeah, there are a few polys, too. Give the models a try and see how it goes! =)
#8
Even if the first lod stage may have a high poly count just giving it multiple stages will go a long way in keeping those frames moving. More than realism I like seeing a high amount of details in modern games.
08/17/2010 (3:18 pm)
Awesome work and brilliant idea to let us try before buying. I've thought a few times before that a sample pack would be a great way to get a better idea of the artwork (more than screenshots or a staged video) and a means of giving you some good feedback before releasing a full pack.Even if the first lod stage may have a high poly count just giving it multiple stages will go a long way in keeping those frames moving. More than realism I like seeing a high amount of details in modern games.
#9
08/17/2010 (3:32 pm)
look at edit of my last post:)
#10
08/17/2010 (4:05 pm)
Initial impression and the quality seen in the sampler pack plus the August sales special make this one a must have on my list!
#11
08/17/2010 (5:53 pm)
Alan, you never fail to impress! 
#12
But at the same time I saw the statistics panel and it almost everywhere renders 3,000,000 polygons and uses more than 1,000 render calls. This is way too much, this is the limit for many graphic cards. So I wonder if this is a problem of T3D not culling invisible meshes or did you really use this big amount of polygons?
08/18/2010 (8:44 am)
Alan, you get better with each pack. I like the visuals.But at the same time I saw the statistics panel and it almost everywhere renders 3,000,000 polygons and uses more than 1,000 render calls. This is way too much, this is the limit for many graphic cards. So I wonder if this is a problem of T3D not culling invisible meshes or did you really use this big amount of polygons?
#13
I can answer some of the questions, but I'll have to defer some of the answers to folks who know exactly how T3D does certain things.
First of all, yeah there is probably a lot of polygons, but it's hard for me to give you specifics on how many are the models in the jungle/forest shots and how much is some level of overhead that is inherent.
To give you an example, load up the desert demo level with about a dozen simple buildings in it. At various directions the metrics reports numbers between 1.5 and 2.2 million polys and draw calls of 600-900:
www.monsterpacks.com/temp/screenshot_003-00004.png
(I didn't embed the image since I'm at my "regular" job and have limited graphic app. access to resize it)
The second thing is I don't know what has changed/improved with updated versions of the engine and culling, instancing etc. since these shots were taken with T3D 1.0 (the demo version release...it's just been easier to work with when I want to distribute demo examples). I know there are some changes, but again I have to defer to folks like Tom S. and such on what performance improvements, rendering changes and such have been working their way into the later builds.
The third thing is I really can't tell anything about the metrics report other than I started to use it on as many screenshots as I remember, since I want folks to have a realistic view of what is being reported and that they probably have a better idea how it works in engine, what's going on etc. --- even if I don't.
Finally, what I basically do is use my own system as a baseline, since it's not an exceptionally strong one (baring a pretty decent video card). I'm running a P4 3.2 with 2GB DDR (probably PC2700) with an nVidia 260 and the screens above, in the dense areas of the jungle scenes run from 20 low end fps to 55 fps in the "less dense" areas. Now that's not too impressive, but as a comparison on my system, the last time I tried running Crysis and Doom 3 they were flip books (a few frames per second into the low 20's).
Hopefully someone will chime in who really understands this in regards to T3D and can give an informed response regarding the Engine as opposed to mine.
Thanks!
08/18/2010 (2:07 pm)
Hey Frank,I can answer some of the questions, but I'll have to defer some of the answers to folks who know exactly how T3D does certain things.
First of all, yeah there is probably a lot of polygons, but it's hard for me to give you specifics on how many are the models in the jungle/forest shots and how much is some level of overhead that is inherent.
To give you an example, load up the desert demo level with about a dozen simple buildings in it. At various directions the metrics reports numbers between 1.5 and 2.2 million polys and draw calls of 600-900:
www.monsterpacks.com/temp/screenshot_003-00004.png
(I didn't embed the image since I'm at my "regular" job and have limited graphic app. access to resize it)
The second thing is I don't know what has changed/improved with updated versions of the engine and culling, instancing etc. since these shots were taken with T3D 1.0 (the demo version release...it's just been easier to work with when I want to distribute demo examples). I know there are some changes, but again I have to defer to folks like Tom S. and such on what performance improvements, rendering changes and such have been working their way into the later builds.
The third thing is I really can't tell anything about the metrics report other than I started to use it on as many screenshots as I remember, since I want folks to have a realistic view of what is being reported and that they probably have a better idea how it works in engine, what's going on etc. --- even if I don't.
Finally, what I basically do is use my own system as a baseline, since it's not an exceptionally strong one (baring a pretty decent video card). I'm running a P4 3.2 with 2GB DDR (probably PC2700) with an nVidia 260 and the screens above, in the dense areas of the jungle scenes run from 20 low end fps to 55 fps in the "less dense" areas. Now that's not too impressive, but as a comparison on my system, the last time I tried running Crysis and Doom 3 they were flip books (a few frames per second into the low 20's).
Hopefully someone will chime in who really understands this in regards to T3D and can give an informed response regarding the Engine as opposed to mine.
Thanks!
#14
08/18/2010 (2:21 pm)
You art is good but if I could make a suggestion. When Ancient structures crumble They do just that, "Crumble." the don't break at perfectly clean 90 degrees angles. I would suggest using a few polys and making your broken off bits more irregular in shape. Texture work is great though. I would like I said maybe make one LOD above you Highest now and add more detail to the destructed bits. Old stuff needs less perfection.
#15
LOL, definitely! I have such a time breaking away from my old school thinking and the fear of possibly...can I say it?...making concave shape on accident!(BSP modeling brainwashing keeps coming back).
My last pass through them "roughed up" the stairs and stair supports (not pictured in the screens, they were the earlier models) but I'll for sure "age them up" a bit, some for the initial release, and others for an update (like I'm so prone to do).
Thanks!
08/18/2010 (2:44 pm)
@JamesLOL, definitely! I have such a time breaking away from my old school thinking and the fear of possibly...can I say it?...making concave shape on accident!(BSP modeling brainwashing keeps coming back).
My last pass through them "roughed up" the stairs and stair supports (not pictured in the screens, they were the earlier models) but I'll for sure "age them up" a bit, some for the initial release, and others for an update (like I'm so prone to do).
Thanks!
#16
But nevertheless I would be interested how scene management works. This could also help to improve assets to support different kind of scene management. Just as an example: Splitting big meshes into chunks of a few thousand polygons in interior scenes could help with view frustum culling. Zones and portals could need special areas. Occlusion culling needs special occlusion geometry and so on.
08/18/2010 (6:28 pm)
Alan, I see what you mean. To be honest, I also experienced quite bad frame rates with the desert demo from T3D. But the latest Beta renders at least the Burg demo faster. Maybe it makes sense for you to upgrade to a higher version.But nevertheless I would be interested how scene management works. This could also help to improve assets to support different kind of scene management. Just as an example: Splitting big meshes into chunks of a few thousand polygons in interior scenes could help with view frustum culling. Zones and portals could need special areas. Occlusion culling needs special occlusion geometry and so on.
#17
I think (and I could be wrong) the terrain itself can entail a bit of a hit if it's highly detailed (i.e. the square size). For example go in and change the square size on the Desert Demo from 2 to 6. You'll loose a bit of the fine detail obviously, but you have a drop in poly counts of nearly 750,000 and a draw call drop of near 250 calls. But interestingly it only boosted my framerate on my system by 7-10 fps.
Here are a couple of the above screens in the jungle shots with the only thing changed was the square size of the terrain adjusted from 2 to 6:
Substantial drop apparently in polys (all though it is not a big drop in draw calls - well, let me take that back, 500 to 700 I guess) but again not any huge jump in fps.
I'm sure there is a lot of little traps like that I'm falling into when setting up my levels & such that the folks that really know the Engine probably know how to avoid. I knew TGE & to some degree TGEA a lot better than I know T3D at this point. It's been coming pretty quick at my old brain and I've been playing catch up.
Anyway, hope that helps a little.
08/18/2010 (10:57 pm)
Yes, when I went back through and reworked the SciFi Pack, in the demo levels I worked in three or four zones and portals and simply doing that on the interior scenes definitely helped performance. I think (and I could be wrong) the terrain itself can entail a bit of a hit if it's highly detailed (i.e. the square size). For example go in and change the square size on the Desert Demo from 2 to 6. You'll loose a bit of the fine detail obviously, but you have a drop in poly counts of nearly 750,000 and a draw call drop of near 250 calls. But interestingly it only boosted my framerate on my system by 7-10 fps.
Here are a couple of the above screens in the jungle shots with the only thing changed was the square size of the terrain adjusted from 2 to 6:
Substantial drop apparently in polys (all though it is not a big drop in draw calls - well, let me take that back, 500 to 700 I guess) but again not any huge jump in fps.
I'm sure there is a lot of little traps like that I'm falling into when setting up my levels & such that the folks that really know the Engine probably know how to avoid. I knew TGE & to some degree TGEA a lot better than I know T3D at this point. It's been coming pretty quick at my old brain and I've been playing catch up.
Anyway, hope that helps a little.
#18
08/19/2010 (3:17 pm)
Man, that's beautiful! Stunning work as always Alan, can't wait for the full release.
#19
Thanks!
08/23/2010 (8:09 pm)
Just thought I'd not spam the forums with another redundant plan, but thought you might like to know that the full Pack is now available for sale. Thanks!
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